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YohanTM2 -> Fanboy nonsense (9/12/2004 7:16:08 PM)

This "fanboy" stuff everywhere is really getting annoying. Not directed at anyone in particular but it is quite silly and seems degrading to gamers and developers.



Hexed Gamer -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/12/2004 7:28:38 PM)

I agree.

A company that produces a good product stays in business, one that doesn't can drop off the radar screen for all I care.

The hobby won't fail to die simply because fools spend irrational sums on irrational goods produced by compaanies that just want your money.

I ain't in it to make the other guy rich or even to let him break even out of some warped sense of pity.

If I think a game sucks, you can bet I won't give a hoot if I am the only one that says so.

Thus far Matrix Games has some good games to its credit (my opinion).
They also have made some choices that might not sit well with everyone.
But trying to please everyone all of the time is an idiots errand too.

I have been labelled a fanboy in my time. But when I recall all the terms that have come my way over time, fanboy is not quite as harsh as some other terms :)

What really makes me want to spew chunks though, are the guys that openly declare they are going to buy everything that a company makes just to keep them afloat.
The best lessons in life are usually the failures.
Let the companies that won't learn perish.

And I sure ain't buying the comany coffee mug just to help pay some guys mortgage while he churns out junk.

Cutomer loyalty is never cheap. The company has to pay ME for my loyalty.
And the price is a good product. Otherwise no sale.



Reiryc -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/12/2004 7:49:16 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

This "fanboy" stuff everywhere is really getting annoying. Not directed at anyone in particular but it is quite silly and seems degrading to gamers and developers.


I see nothing wrong with it...

Some people are partial to certain companies, certain sports teams, certain auto manufacturers, certain restaurants, certain board game makers and so on. I don't see any of this as being degrading to any of those companies/sports teams.

So why not have the same type of loyalty with computer game producers/creators? The only difference I see is that one can easily post their support for all to see.



ravinhood -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/12/2004 8:19:31 PM)

The problem with fanboism, is the opposite side is considered the TROLL, if you goto a site and tell them how suky the product is and the majority think it's gods gift to mankind, they will tag you as a troll.

Then you have the trolls vs the fanbois and then you have the fanboi moderators that ban the troll even though it was the fanbois that started the "flaming" to begin with. Now that's the problem I find with fanboism. A troll merely disses the game, fanbois flame, dis, disrespect, everything in the book upon the troll and as soon as the troll merely defends himself, here come the biased moderators and bans HIM! (or her if the case may be).

Thas why I come here to "burn Paradox in the dirt", cause here there is no bias. Now I guess if I were to burn Matrix games, I would get the troll tag and eventually banned by some biased moderator just like any other site. ;)

And no I am not banned at Paradox, but, I watched a few that got tagged as trolls get banned for merely stating their opinions at the Paradox forums on the game. Harsh? Yes, truthful? Yes in my belief and opinion they spoke a lot of truth, but, were thwarted by the fanbois and then the moderators afterwards. So instead of dying at the stake over there where mostly fanbois reside, I like it here where "normal" people reside. And we've had some doozies of Paradox bashing here I might add. ;)

It's also another reason I despise GAMESPY, not so much fanboism, but, teenage admins/moderators. That is the most disrespectful site I've ever visited and moderators are friends with many of the teenage patrons and of course one thing leads to another and people get banned for simple reasons. I wish more games would use THE ZONE.com by MSN. I enjoy it much more there than gamespy, I don't even play on gamespy anymore, if I can't direct IP play, I just don't play it.

I also use Gamerankings.com for a total review of a game. Fanboi sites are totally 100% one way, blinded by who knows what, but, on Gamerankings.com the real truth of the game comes out from all avenues, professional reviewers, amateur reviewers and the gamers themselves. Taking an average of them all usually gives a good idea if the game is worth buying or not.



Hexed Gamer -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/12/2004 8:40:20 PM)

Well one lesson I had to learn the hard way, was you are never truely free to speak an opinion unless the forum is your own property.

Then, I have found a commercial operation will eventually have to enforce a minimal measure of fair play between rival companies, just to ensure they don't get burnet alive over at the competition.

Which leaves the forums that have no real product and are just places where gamers meet to discuss their games.

I have come to appreciate the sites that have no actual link to the games financially. I can slag a game, any game, more readily on a forum such as that.

Although, slagging a game just for the sake of being miserable rapidly generates it's own repercussions to which the person basically has to live with.

Then again, pointless fauning support is just as good a way to invalidate the worth of the comments equally.



Kevinugly -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/12/2004 10:20:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yohan

This "fanboy" stuff everywhere is really getting annoying. Not directed at anyone in particular but it is quite silly and seems degrading to gamers and developers.


I see nothing wrong with it...

Some people are partial to certain companies, certain sports teams, certain auto manufacturers, certain restaurants, certain board game makers and so on. I don't see any of this as being degrading to any of those companies/sports teams.

So why not have the same type of loyalty with computer game producers/creators? The only difference I see is that one can easily post their support for all to see.



But 'Fanboys' go way beyond that. It's impossible for them to conceive that any viewpoint different from their own could have any validity. In their black and white world the slightest criticism of the object of their devotion is seen as an attempt to discredit it so they round on the perpetrater using whatever methods at their disposal to drive him/her away. Inevitably any discussion they become involved in degenerates into personal abuse whether physical or 'merely' linguistic.



pasternakski -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/12/2004 10:39:09 PM)

Careful, K, somebody's going to come along and label you an anti-fanboy fanboy.

I agree with what several posters have said here, including, in particular, Yohan.

There are a lot of well-meaning, intelligent, and informative people here, including both Matrix/2by3 personnel and non-employee playtesters. I believe that Matrix maintains these forums in order to provide an avenue for exchange of information in support of game improvements, bug hunting, and general customer (and potential customer) input. When it works, it works great.

It goes wrong two ways. First, you get self-centered dilettantes who have no motive for being here other than to say, "Me! Me! More me now! Look at how much I know and how I understand it all far better than any of the rest of you!" Second, you get people who are so absorbed in their own take of how a game ought to be designed in order to further their fantasies (for example, leading the historical loser to glory despite the facts of the historical situation, or turning hex-grid, turn-based games into RTS), intelligent dialogue and thoughtful advancement of the forums' goals become impossible.

It's very frustrating. I have taken the pledge and sworn off posting here a couple of times over just this set of dynamics. Nothing disgusts me more here than when the moderators have to step in and restore order. I like the games so much (and many of the people I have met here, including PBEM partners) that I don't want to step away. I have had some small role in helping make an improvement or two in the past, and I have gratefully received a wealth of information.

I suggest two things to all who post here: first, keep what you say within the context of the forum intentions or take it somewhere that deals in oddball posturing and argument (the Steakhouse, for example, particularly Doggie's forum). Second, try to keep it light, friendly, and respectful.

This is about GAMES, after all...



Hexed Gamer -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/12/2004 11:23:04 PM)

Well stated.



freeboy -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 12:01:22 AM)

ok, Im a fanboy fanboy, I am opinionated but usually not rude[:-] crude[:(], or lacking commen cents; " is this american money"?
The bitch I have is with those who honestly disagree yet cannot do so and remain civil.
If someone doesn't like a place leave... like the old injunction to speak the truth but in a loving way...



Reiryc -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 12:24:34 AM)

quote:

But 'Fanboys' go way beyond that. It's impossible for them to conceive that any viewpoint different from their own could have any validity


I see this from people in general, not just fanboys. Look any patton thread around here... [8|]



Kevinugly -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 12:38:34 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

quote:

But 'Fanboys' go way beyond that. It's impossible for them to conceive that any viewpoint different from their own could have any validity


I see this from people in general, not just fanboys. Look any patton thread around here... [8|]


I just couldn't bear to anymore[;)]



pasternakski -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 12:40:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy
The bitch I have is with those who honestly disagree yet cannot do so and remain civil.


The additional factor is focus. Inflammatory topics lead to unprincipled argument.

If we are genuinely addressing Matrix game-related topics, emotional advocacy of closely-held personal opinions subtracts itself, ipso facto, from the equation.



freeboy -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 12:42:18 AM)

I am not argueing against emotional argueing, but keep it respectfull, I can disagree without belittling you...!!!



Kevinugly -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 12:43:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: freeboy

I am not argueing against emotional argueing, but keep it respectfull, I can disagree without belittling you...!!!


Which is why I wouldn't call you a 'Fanboy' freeboy[:)]



Hertston -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 1:11:03 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevinugly

But 'Fanboys' go way beyond that. It's impossible for them to conceive that any viewpoint different from their own could have any validity. In their black and white world the slightest criticism of the object of their devotion is seen as an attempt to discredit it so they round on the perpetrater using whatever methods at their disposal to drive him/her away. Inevitably any discussion they become involved in degenerates into personal abuse whether physical or 'merely' linguistic.



Herts mutters quietly under his breath about that. [:@]

There is a point in there somewhere, but I've had that sort of stuff slung at me on a couple of occasions when I've been "defending" a game - not because of any "fanboy" loyalty but simply because I happened to like it, and didn't agree with comments from the people who were doing the slinging . One of those instances was regarding a Matrix product.



Kevinugly -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 1:15:42 AM)

I think most of us have been guilty of going OTT at times, we're only human after all (at least I hope we are[;)]). There are some though who do it rather more often than most and it is they whom I would define as 'Fanboys'.



Raverdave -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 2:05:10 PM)

I am hurt![:(] I was very proud of my sig till I read this thread *sniff*



freeboy -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/13/2004 3:56:11 PM)

I guess there are more than one way to look at fanboys, see all the use at the witp area and it isn't seen in a negative light



KG Erwin -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/14/2004 3:11:38 AM)

As one of the SPWaW/Matrix moderators, I guess by definition I'm a "fanboy". However, I don't mince words when it comes to a game's shortcomings, faults and quirks. Every game has them. "The Perfect Wargame" doesn't exist.

However, I have seen examples of the obsessive cheerleader syndrome, and every game has them. As a matter of fact, this is very prevalent on some musician and band fan sites I frequent. I could go further, but it wouldn't be "politically correct" (ahem).

On the flip side, there is also the obsessive denigrator, otherwise called the troll. All they wanna do is tear down and stir up trouble. Mix this with the fanboy syndrome and you have the inevitable flame war. This is why these boards must have moderators, to help keep the oil-water mix from combusting and spoiling the party.

My view: as long as the disputing parties can flail away at each other from an arm's distance, then they can p*ss and moan at each other to their hearts' content, but it is a general waste of time for everyone concerned.



Hexed Gamer -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/14/2004 3:40:58 AM)

What I find funny, is the super weird types.

The ones that insist wargame forums are good places for politics.

They come to forums like here, and really, they should be bothering someone at a magazine like Time or Maclean's.

Especially when they only want to discuss politics, not just a bit of politics, but nothing but politics.

Last time I looked, we didn't have any members that were in-office politicians, so why drive us wargamers crazy with the rants :)

Now if you want to rant about wargames, that's cool :)

Everyone has a view on politics, but why not take it to where it might actually do some good?



wodin -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/14/2004 4:04:00 AM)

Ive sometimes preached a little about a game. However its only because I want others to know about it. Squad Battles series is the one at the moment.

I dont honestly know of anyone here who loves evry game Matrix has produced. Do they exist?

Yohan,

Can you give examples of FANBOY as Im missing them. Must be alot of it going on for compliants.



Reiryc -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/14/2004 5:31:42 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexed Gamer

What I find funny, is the super weird types.

The ones that insist wargame forums are good places for politics.

They come to forums like here, and really, they should be bothering someone at a magazine like Time or Maclean's.

Especially when they only want to discuss politics, not just a bit of politics, but nothing but politics.

Last time I looked, we didn't have any members that were in-office politicians, so why drive us wargamers crazy with the rants :)

Now if you want to rant about wargames, that's cool :)

Everyone has a view on politics, but why not take it to where it might actually do some good?


Well to point out the obvious to the clue-'les'....

When discussing wargames, often history comes up to support or detract from a position. If the point in question involves decisions, especially at strategic levels, then politics can does come into play.

It's not about discussing politics in order to effect change, it's because the debate itself is enjoyable and very often, quite informative.

What's more, if one can discuss these things with people that have wargaming and often history as a common denominator, then all the better.



Fred98 -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/14/2004 8:12:16 AM)

I am not a fanboy of anything. - except perhaps the Ford Escape [:D]
-



Hexed Gamer -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/14/2004 8:52:28 AM)

Reiryc, your justification would be valid if the manner and choice of politics had any real relevance to the wargames we actually play.

But as it is usually slag the US or slag those that slag the US, or slag the left or slag the right, I see no validity in your claim.

Or if I am not mistaken, you rarely see much in depth discussion about the important political decisions of past military history gamed out in our wargames.

No shortage of politics being discussed that has happened in the last 4 years though.



m10bob -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/14/2004 9:22:07 AM)

If somebody wears a Chevrolet t-shirt,are they just a Detroit toadie for the auto-technocrats,or can they be allowed to show their approval of the product with a harmless gesture??..(bump)



EricGuitarJames -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/14/2004 7:02:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If somebody wears a Chevrolet t-shirt,are they just a Detroit toadie for the auto-technocrats,or can they be allowed to show their approval of the product with a harmless gesture??..(bump)


Or it was the only clean shirt in the drawer[:D]

But regarding Reiyrc point about politics, it's rare that it's relevent to wargaming issues and even rarer that they are civilised. Even when it is relevent, the discussions often degenerate into 'mud-slinging'. A case in point being a recent discussion on the bombing of Dresden in 1945 that occured on these boards.



Reiryc -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/15/2004 5:48:52 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EricGuitarJames

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If somebody wears a Chevrolet t-shirt,are they just a Detroit toadie for the auto-technocrats,or can they be allowed to show their approval of the product with a harmless gesture??..(bump)


Or it was the only clean shirt in the drawer[:D]

But regarding Reiyrc point about politics, it's rare that it's relevent to wargaming issues and even rarer that they are civilised. Even when it is relevent, the discussions often degenerate into 'mud-slinging'. A case in point being a recent discussion on the bombing of Dresden in 1945 that occured on these boards.


Please....

Look no further than this board for the discussion on patton for a so-called civilized thread.

Mud slinging seems to happen on any board so long as a topic brings out heated feelings.



Fortium -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/15/2004 6:34:02 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc
Mud slinging seems to happen on any board so long as a topic brings out heated feelings.


Hi Reiry... [:D]



riverbravo -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/15/2004 6:39:16 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc

quote:

ORIGINAL: EricGuitarJames

quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

If somebody wears a Chevrolet t-shirt,are they just a Detroit toadie for the auto-technocrats,or can they be allowed to show their approval of the product with a harmless gesture??..(bump)


Or it was the only clean shirt in the drawer[:D]

But regarding Reiyrc point about politics, it's rare that it's relevent to wargaming issues and even rarer that they are civilised. Even when it is relevent, the discussions often degenerate into 'mud-slinging'. A case in point being a recent discussion on the bombing of Dresden in 1945 that occured on these boards.


Please....

Look no further than this board for the discussion on patton for a so-called civilized thread.

Mud slinging seems to happen on any board so long as a topic brings out heated feelings.


I would think there are two types of fanboys, the gamer and the nationality, army, country fanboy.

The gamer Fanboy onlylikes a certain type of game and no other.The gamer fanboy worships 'his' game as if it where a holy relic.

The 'all around' fanboy only likes certain armies and there equipment.Or they worship certain commanders for better or worse and nothing can change there mind.

Everyone prefers different things, some people are just a bit more extreme.



Reiryc -> RE: Fanboy nonsense (9/15/2004 7:50:15 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Fortium

quote:

ORIGINAL: Reiryc
Mud slinging seems to happen on any board so long as a topic brings out heated feelings.


Hi Reiry... [:D]


Hola good sir! [8D]



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