Victory Conditions

Victory Conditions (Full Version)

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Major Destruction -> Victory Conditions (9/16/2004 2:08:10 AM)
The final score of my advance scenario was 9736-2998. This works out to better than 3:1 ratio. I scored a medium victory. What is the required score ratio in Advance for a Decisive Victory? What are the minimum ratios for victory (MV and DV) for meeting and assault battles? In addition, are the victory conditions skewed for assaulter and defender such that a assaulter might need to score say 5:1 for a DV while the defender might only require 4:1 to score a DV? Also, are the ratios changed for river assault or beach assault battles?

Poopyhead -> RE: Victory Conditions (9/17/2004 4:43:49 PM)
I checked the manual again last night and I couldn't find any mention of a skewered ratio for the different engagement types. I believe that at least 6 to 1 is necessary for a Decisive victory and as you say 3 to 1 for a Marginal, anything less is a draw (or worse). It's an abstract system at best. I think that taking all of your objectives is more important than kill ratios. I'm sure that according to the game system, Zhukov never got better than a draw. However, it was good enough to bleed the Germans white and "free" half of Europe! I wonder if it is possible to edit the Victory Hex values so that you or your opponent always get a Decisive Victory. If you have a force of value X and there are say 20 VH's, then the problem is mathematical, not tactical. If you take all of the objectives, even though you nearly lost your entire force, then you must get 6X to get a Decisive victory against the X number of points that your opponent nearly got. So each VH must have a base value of 6X divided by 20, or .3 times your force's value (if I have a force of 1000 points, then each of the 20 VH must have a value of 300 to get a total of 6000). Now, if I take all of my objectives, even though I nearly got wiped out, for having "forced my will upon my opponent" I would be assured of a victory that was Decisive.

robot -> RE: Victory Conditions (9/17/2004 7:13:21 PM)
Not every battle in the war was a decisive victory. If you managed to rout the enemy and not lose too many lifes that counted as a victory. It was always hoped for a decisive victory. But this was not always manageable. And the only reason you wanted that kind of victory was because of the destruction to the enemy and the morale loss to them. Besides with that kind of loss by the enemy meant they retreated further and maybe even surrender the war. Why are you so upset that you dont get a decisive victory more often. I play for that myself but will take a marginal or even a draw to any kind of a defeat. Right now i will be lucky to get a marginal one. More like a draw what with the lifes and equipment i have lost. I will take all the objectives but will be hurting in my next battle. This is the battle of Germany vs Poland in 1939. In my battle of Japan against Russia i got a draw because i did not get all the VHs. But in that one i did not lose no where near the life and equipment like the Germans have.

Poopyhead -> RE: Victory Conditions (9/20/2004 4:37:32 PM)
I prefer to think that bloody battles are raging all around my unit, but that we are fighting that pivotal engagement where history is written in the blood and sweat of brave men. Nineteenth century battle sites like Borodino and Gettysburg were of no strategic importance, except that both sides were willing to slaughter each other there. However, in the last century, operational objectives had to be met to achieve strategic goals, i.e., Rommel had to take Tobruk to secure his supply lines for the invasion of Egypt. A bunch of 20 point victory hexes may make sense to the designer, but are not very realistic objectives for a battle. I doubt if Patton would have been happy if Third Army had a great kill ratio but had failed to relieve Bastogne or had lost the Bidge at Remagen.

Major Destruction -> RE: Victory Conditions (9/21/2004 3:44:20 AM)
My concern is only one of moving forward from one scenario to the next in a campaign mission.. As campaign designer, if I build a scenario that can not be won with a DV then I have no need to build a battle that covers that eventuality.

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