Xargun and Rob my side of the map (Full Version)

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rroberson -> Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/2/2004 8:34:16 PM)

Well we are once again going to restart. So great were the advantages of 1.30 that we couldnt resist it. That being said, there will be no more restarts period. I am pretty sick of 1942. So for me its '43 or bust.

Within this half of the AAR you will find maps, statistics and all the information you need to advise the CINCPAC on how to not lose the war. I will take all the advise I can get from you guys, weigh it and make policy based on it. I am Nimitz and you are my staff. The final say of course is mine, but given my over aggressive nature I hope your words and counsel will reign me in a bit until I can afford to have 3 carriers wiped off the map :P.

So, let's hear it, what would be your opening movies given the pathetic state of the allies. Would you retreat from Rangoon or hold, fight to the last man in Singapore. Stock up Noumea. Hold the line at Midway or at Pearl. You come up with the ops and I will implement them. Its 8 December 1941, where do I go from here.



kellyc -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/2/2004 11:19:22 PM)

I'm 'nick the new guy' so I can't give any advice but I do look forward to reading this AAR, you guys do a great and informative job (and provide alot of insight). The last one was enjoyable to read.

Sincerely
Kelly



rogueusmc -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/3/2004 1:38:18 AM)

I try to be as big a pain in the ass as I can without just running my troops into the dirt.

I play like it is real and those are real guys on those decks that, were they to die out there, I have to write the letters to their parents explaining why I was such a dumbass.

That being said, I leave everything where it starts around DEI and PI. I start moving them out when they start taking too much punishment.

In China, I mass all the forces available to me in the bigger air bases and the rail network. It comes to about 6 or 7 major bases.

Rangoon: dump in a bunch of supplies in early and let them be a stronghold. Make Japan commit to it. I use the AVG here. Leave them in the Tomahawks...you lose 2 hexes in range upgrading to the Warhawks.

Malaysia: fight them tooth and nail. Use subs to take little bits of your big support units out as they start getting run over. The Aussie Buffaloes can be upgraded real quick to Hurricanes after they start taking losses. They can jump from Singapore to Rangoon and then to Columbo the next turn where I have supplies and fuel stockpiled. They can upgrade there and then get transported back to Oz or just use them there in India/Burma.

ADBA forces: the recon birds will be gold later in the game...don't let them get destroyed.

Will submit more as it occurs to me.



rroberson -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 7:43:53 AM)

quote:


That being said, I leave everything where it starts around DEI and PI. I start moving them out when they start taking too much punishment.

In China, I mass all the forces available to me in the bigger air bases and the rail network. It comes to about 6 or 7 major bases.

Rangoon: dump in a bunch of supplies in early and let them be a stronghold. Make Japan commit to it. I use the AVG here. Leave them in the Tomahawks...you lose 2 hexes in range upgrading to the Warhawks.

Malaysia: fight them tooth and nail. Use subs to take little bits of your big support units out as they start getting run over. The Aussie Buffaloes can be upgraded real quick to Hurricanes after they start taking losses. They can jump from Singapore to Rangoon and then to Columbo the next turn where I have supplies and fuel stockpiled. They can upgrade there and then get transported back to Oz or just use them there in India/Burma.

ADBA forces: the recon birds will be gold later in the game...don't let them get destroyed.

Will submit more as it occurs to me.


I usually tend too be a pain in his ass, the last game I was pretty distracted with football so I let things get out of hand. I made several "rookie" mistakes something I don't intend to repeat. I will still adopt my hit them when opportunity presents itself strategy, but it will be far less often this time. I will also do the massing strategy as you suggested, the one change is I will employ my viet cong strategy and harrass his lines, that worked very very well last game. I also agree with Rangoon and the AVG, I didnt fight for Rangoon last game because I did the previous one...not so this time...tooth and nail..

Malaysia is a hard call, the dutch raise hell off the coast which is good, but the land fight is always one sided. Last game I rolled into Singapore for that last stand, id rather make him fight for every hex, I think it depends on how much firepower he brings to the party. If its overwhelming I will make a show of it, but rebase my air power immediately to the surrounding and unbombed airfields. Fighters with legs will stay in the area, everythign else will move up to Burma. Agree with the recon planes..they are hauling ass. :)

My two deployed carriers are running straight south and hopefully far out of harms way. As soon as I deem it safe I will either base them out of NZ or sneak them back up to the west coast. I am determined to hold onto past January this game. It is unlikely i will make any major offensive moves with them untill I have four of them lined up bow to stern. I can be taught, US carrier air gets killed before march in this game. That is all for now, tomorrow Xargun should have the first turn to me.



Raverdave -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 7:51:11 AM)

I have to dissagree with holding Rangoon...........suck out all the oil and supplies and build up Akyab and Mandalay..........these are you two key bases to holding Burma.
In Malaya fight him with what you have got but try and mass your forces so that they are not gobbled up in dribs and drabs.
Clark is the base in the PI that you really want to hold. Mass your supplies there as soon as possible.

Park your CVs on the west coast and leave them there until they have passed their first upgrades (Mid '42 iirc).

China.......simply fall back....don't fight, just fall back.



Jim D Burns -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 9:54:41 AM)

I’d say move those 2 CV’s to either NZ or Perth. Keep them back and only bring them out when you know where KB is. 2 CV’s showing up off western Java can put a real hurt on the Japanese if they don’t bring a large part of KB to protect the landings. The same goes for any moves he makes into the Solomon’s. Either way keep them well back so a lucky float plane doesn’t give away your position until you’re ready to strike. Assign the next 2 CV’s to the area not yet covered, and any after that to Pearl. The point is you only need a couple to hurt him and once he shows his cards, you’ll react where he isn’t.

In Burma you need to decide whether to stay or flee. If you flee, simply place one or two large land units in each base along the Imphal line, you’ve got interior lines and can react in force to any penetrations he may make in just a few days. Pull all of the base force units out right away as well to help fortify this line, no sense losing them in Burma. I’d leave only 1 in Rangoon and 1 in Mandalay, the rest start marching out on turn 1.

If you want to stay, bring all the Indian armor from Karachi on turn 1 and try to land it under the cover of the AVG at Rangoon. Don’t fight for Rangoon though, stay north and east and fight a withdrawal action towards Mandalay until the Chinese arrive. If the Chinese make it in time you can put up a real fight for Mandalay, but if they don’t expect to march what few British and Indian remnants remain through the dense northern trails back into India to be slowly rebuilt. If the Japanese push hard for Burma the Chinese will never arrive in time, but if they delay…

In China divide a large portion of your units (1/3 to ½) and try to create a carpet 3-4 hexes deep of solid units. If the Japanese try to advance, surround them and bring up reserves from your bases to tie them up in supply draining combats that will eventually wear them down. You’ve got numbers on your side, so use them; it’s your only advantage.

I try to pull as many land combat units as I can from the DEI islands and isolated bases that don’t have major air bases back to Java. Keep units on islands with airbases of size 2 and up, just to force the Japanese to take them from you, but switch the rest to SW Pacific command and bring them all to Java. Given enough time you can have fort levels of 8-9 in most key bases there with adequate land units to force a long battle for that island. Sending a few to Palembang (SP?) can help as well. Oh yeah turn off replacements for all Dutch units not on the main island of Java. No sense building up those doomed units, Java needs every squad.

For the PI read my advice posted here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=715536&mpage=1&key=? It covers how I play against the AI, but much of it is sound strategy I think. NEVER form multi ship task forces, they are air magnets. Create single ship taskforces for the dash to safety, you’ll save far more ships that way.

Well that’s my advice, good luck. I look forward to the AAR.

Jim



wobbly -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 11:34:23 AM)

Robson mate.

I recommend moving all your carrier air to a single base just before it is hit with his whole Bombardment force. Move battleships into bases that they have no retreat from. Try to contest the air with Buffalos, Demons and Hurricanes. get your sailors to leave the flash doors open to all the magazines on your ships - some of the weather in the war theatre can turn cold and I understand cordite explosions are good for changing that.
These have all worked marvellously for me [:)]

Actually I can recommend talking to high command and begging for them to give you a 27 plane regiment of Dornier flying boats...



madflava13 -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 6:12:24 PM)

Get that Aussie Brigade out of Malaysia intact. It's a powerful force that will do wonders in Burma. Leave it in Singapore and it's dead - it may delay things, but you're going to lose Singapore anyways...



rroberson -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 6:24:57 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

I have to dissagree with holding Rangoon...........suck out all the oil and supplies and build up Akyab and Mandalay..........these are you two key bases to holding Burma.
In Malaya fight him with what you have got but try and mass your forces so that they are not gobbled up in dribs and drabs.
Clark is the base in the PI that you really want to hold. Mass your supplies there as soon as possible.

Park your CVs on the west coast and leave them there until they have passed their first upgrades (Mid '42 iirc).

China.......simply fall back....don't fight, just fall back.


Why Akyab? It takes a lot of time to build up, (I was doing just that in our last game), but what makes it one of the two keys.



rroberson -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 6:31:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

I’d say move those 2 CV’s to either NZ or Perth. Keep them back and only bring them out when you know where KB is. 2 CV’s showing up off western Java can put a real hurt on the Japanese if they don’t bring a large part of KB to protect the landings. The same goes for any moves he makes into the Solomon’s. Either way keep them well back so a lucky float plane doesn’t give away your position until you’re ready to strike. Assign the next 2 CV’s to the area not yet covered, and any after that to Pearl. The point is you only need a couple to hurt him and once he shows his cards, you’ll react where he isn’t.

In Burma you need to decide whether to stay or flee. If you flee, simply place one or two large land units in each base along the Imphal line, you’ve got interior lines and can react in force to any penetrations he may make in just a few days. Pull all of the base force units out right away as well to help fortify this line, no sense losing them in Burma. I’d leave only 1 in Rangoon and 1 in Mandalay, the rest start marching out on turn 1.

If you want to stay, bring all the Indian armor from Karachi on turn 1 and try to land it under the cover of the AVG at Rangoon. Don’t fight for Rangoon though, stay north and east and fight a withdrawal action towards Mandalay until the Chinese arrive. If the Chinese make it in time you can put up a real fight for Mandalay, but if they don’t expect to march what few British and Indian remnants remain through the dense northern trails back into India to be slowly rebuilt. If the Japanese push hard for Burma the Chinese will never arrive in time, but if they delay…

In China divide a large portion of your units (1/3 to ½) and try to create a carpet 3-4 hexes deep of solid units. If the Japanese try to advance, surround them and bring up reserves from your bases to tie them up in supply draining combats that will eventually wear them down. You’ve got numbers on your side, so use them; it’s your only advantage.

I try to pull as many land combat units as I can from the DEI islands and isolated bases that don’t have major air bases back to Java. Keep units on islands with airbases of size 2 and up, just to force the Japanese to take them from you, but switch the rest to SW Pacific command and bring them all to Java. Given enough time you can have fort levels of 8-9 in most key bases there with adequate land units to force a long battle for that island. Sending a few to Palembang (SP?) can help as well. Oh yeah turn off replacements for all Dutch units not on the main island of Java. No sense building up those doomed units, Java needs every squad.

For the PI read my advice posted here: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=715536&mpage=1&key=? It covers how I play against the AI, but much of it is sound strategy I think. NEVER form multi ship task forces, they are air magnets. Create single ship taskforces for the dash to safety, you’ll save far more ships that way.

Well that’s my advice, good luck. I look forward to the AAR.

Jim


I used your china strategy last game and will again this game, though I do worry that the division of so many chinese units will water down the defense of strategic areas like lanchow (which cannot be lost).

In DEI we have agreed that I cannot pull back from bases until they are under ground assault. We have agreed to a number such house rules, because we are attempting to slow down the hyperactivity of the game (the Japanese move at such a blinding pace and unhistorical pace the allied player is forced to throw away units just to stem the tide somewhat). I will also use single ship convoys for fleeing.



rroberson -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 6:33:04 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: madflava13

Get that Aussie Brigade out of Malaysia intact. It's a powerful force that will do wonders in Burma. Leave it in Singapore and it's dead - it may delay things, but you're going to lose Singapore anyways...


The second I can legallly move it out its flying out of there, trust me, thats a high high priorty.



rroberson -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 6:33:40 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wobbly

Robson mate.

I recommend moving all your carrier air to a single base just before it is hit with his whole Bombardment force. Move battleships into bases that they have no retreat from. Try to contest the air with Buffalos, Demons and Hurricanes. get your sailors to leave the flash doors open to all the magazines on your ships - some of the weather in the war theatre can turn cold and I understand cordite explosions are good for changing that.
These have all worked marvellously for me [:)]

Actually I can recommend talking to high command and begging for them to give you a 27 plane regiment of Dornier flying boats...



Ya know, thats the exact plan I employed last game [:D]



EUBanana -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 6:55:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

I have to dissagree with holding Rangoon...........suck out all the oil and supplies and build up Akyab and Mandalay..........these are you two key bases to holding Burma.
In Malaya fight him with what you have got but try and mass your forces so that they are not gobbled up in dribs and drabs.
Clark is the base in the PI that you really want to hold. Mass your supplies there as soon as possible.

Park your CVs on the west coast and leave them there until they have passed their first upgrades (Mid '42 iirc).

China.......simply fall back....don't fight, just fall back.


Only a rookie, but I have to agree with Rangoon. The AI handed Rangoon its ass, without any problems at all, and despite me reinforcing Burma. It was over too quick for the reinforcements to matter.

But Mandalay seems eminently defensible. I got three Chinese divisions there in my game now, big airbase with plenty of Hurricanes and Blenheims, lots of those dinky little Burma Rifles units and a few other Commonwealth units I could scrape up, two Indian tank brigades in reserve (planning to go for supply lines with those should the AI nose forward) and the Japs so far seem to have just one division committed. It's also got plenty of bases behind it which you can put bombers in to hammer any ground units that attempt to siege the place, even if the Japs close Mandalay's airbase you can still focus your air power there.

So based on the AI (ok, bad maybe) I'd draw the line for southeast asia at Mandalay.

The Phillippines, I dont see how you can hold it, the Japs got too many ground forces... next time I play I'm starting the evacuation as soon as PPs permit. My first game I only got a tiny fragment of USAFFE HQ out with subs as Jap CVLs had the place locked down tight...

I didnt know what to do with the Chinese, so they sat on their ass for a month or two. The Japs seemed to sit on their ass as well, so now I'm massing about ten divisions to take Hanoi. Not sure if its a good idea or not, but theres plenty more Chinese where they came from, so might as well use em, eh? [8D]

Saratoga and Lexington are parked off Rabaul in Feb 42 and slaughtering the Japs there while the KB is in the DEI. The South Pacific is a Jap disaster story, its about the only place the Allies have had any real success in my game. Got a released NZ division, the Australian division, the USMC division and the Americal division headed for the South Pacific, if I can get them there before the KB leaves the DEI I think the war is gonna go much better for the Allies in that theatre then history had it go...
So yeah, I'd wait till you are sure the KB isnt about and then park the US CVs in Auckland or something, and while the KB is away, the Saratoga can play.



Jim D Burns -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 8:47:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

I used your china strategy last game and will again this game, though I do worry that the division of so many chinese units will water down the defense of strategic areas like lanchow (which cannot be lost).

In DEI we have agreed that I cannot pull back from bases until they are under ground assault. We have agreed to a number such house rules, because we are attempting to slow down the hyperactivity of the game (the Japanese move at such a blinding pace and unhistorical pace the allied player is forced to throw away units just to stem the tide somewhat). I will also use single ship convoys for fleeing.


Actually it doesn't take that many units to cover a good 3-4 hex deep line. If you decide to move forward and expand into the open country northeast of Hong Kong, then it will take more, but I'd hold off and see how aggressive the Japanese are first.

The main point in creating such a deep zone of solid units is to create a quagmire for the Japanese. No matter which way he goes, he gets surrounded and bogged down. If he's on the main rail or road net, then race forward some strong reserve units (2-3 corps per Japanese division) to tie him up and give the supply attrition time to take effect. The more he fights, the quicker he runs out of supply.

If your line is thinner than 3-4 hexes deep, it's too easy for him to punch through quickly and tactically surround your units. I generally make the leading edge units full strength corps, and place 2-3 brigades behind this line. That way when he attacks a unit, the corps on either flank can quickly divide and send brigades to surround the contested hex. Even if he wins quickly, he faces the prospect of another 2-3 hexes of units in most directions and meanwhile his supply is dwindling away and your reserve army is racing to the scene.

I think your DEI house rule actually favors Japan greatly and will help them conquer the DEI much faster. Basically it sounds like your units are frozen in place so he can pick them off piecemeal. Perhaps a modified house rule that allows you to shuttle DEI units around their own country only would be more reasonable. That way at least you could react to tactical developments by shuffling reserves around and whatnot.

Jim



rroberson -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 9:09:24 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

I used your china strategy last game and will again this game, though I do worry that the division of so many chinese units will water down the defense of strategic areas like lanchow (which cannot be lost).

In DEI we have agreed that I cannot pull back from bases until they are under ground assault. We have agreed to a number such house rules, because we are attempting to slow down the hyperactivity of the game (the Japanese move at such a blinding pace and unhistorical pace the allied player is forced to throw away units just to stem the tide somewhat). I will also use single ship convoys for fleeing.


Actually it doesn't take that many units to cover a good 3-4 hex deep line. If you decide to move forward and expand into the open country northeast of Hong Kong, then it will take more, but I'd hold off and see how aggressive the Japanese are first.

The main point in creating such a deep zone of solid units is to create a quagmire for the Japanese. No matter which way he goes, he gets surrounded and bogged down. If he's on the main rail or road net, then race forward some strong reserve units (2-3 corps per Japanese division) to tie him up and give the supply attrition time to take effect. The more he fights, the quicker he runs out of supply.

If your line is thinner than 3-4 hexes deep, it's too easy for him to punch through quickly and tactically surround your units. I generally make the leading edge units full strength corps, and place 2-3 brigades behind this line. That way when he attacks a unit, the corps on either flank can quickly divide and send brigades to surround the contested hex. Even if he wins quickly, he faces the prospect of another 2-3 hexes of units in most directions and meanwhile his supply is dwindling away and your reserve army is racing to the scene.

I think your DEI house rule actually favors Japan greatly and will help them conquer the DEI much faster. Basically it sounds like your units are frozen in place so he can pick them off piecemeal. Perhaps a modified house rule that allows you to shuttle DEI units around their own country only would be more reasonable. That way at least you could react to tactical developments by shuffling reserves around and whatnot.

Jim



Actually the DEI rule is to counter this one somewhat to force me to make a show at defending DEI...

"No Amphibious Invasions with units that have less than 30 Preparation Points for the target base [Normal overland invasions may continue as normal]. All amphibious invasions must also have air cover – either LB fighters or from friendly CVs.

The above rule only applies to invasion forces of 1000 load points or more… There small raids launched by APs and subs, as well as invasions with small units are allowed as much as you want – no CAP required. (Or we could limit by Assault Point value – but I like the load point as it is relative to size, not combat potential) "

One of the things we both are trying to combat is the hyperactivity of the Japanese player in game. To me the pace is much to fast and certainly ahistorical.



Rob322 -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 9:32:35 PM)

I say fight for Malaysia hex by hex. The first time I played I just went to Singapore and the Japanese took it before Jan 1! The next time I fought for everything bitterly and held out to the beginning of February, almost historical. Save pieces out the ground units when the end is clearly there but consider flying out the air when he's banging on the door of Singapore. I even saved the Wildebeest squadrons last time I played as the lads had a ton of success torpedoing Japanese transports and the pilots had super experience. I figured they'd convert to something useful eventually. [:D]

Same with the Philippines. Save the air units when he's pounding his way into Clark, the remaining P-40s, Catalinas, and B-17s have higher purposes. I always make a stand at Clark and so far it seems to take the Japanese a long time to take it, this makes up for early departure from Singapore. Still, IMO the most important thing to save from the Philippines are the 27 submarines, get them out before he decides to bomb them.

Try to restrain yourself in 1942, particularly up to about July. I've gotten too aggressive as the Allies too and been severely spanked for it. I know you get your carriers back as Essex class ships but the victory point loss hurts all the same. Plus, if you lose the fleet early the Japanese can keep their offensive up and perhaps go farther than they did historically. You'll wear him down with raw numbers but it'll hurt. I wouldn't hide them in SF, raids are nice to keep your opponent honest but be very careful with that. I'm reading Fuchida's book about Midway and he discussed the months leading up to it as pretty much a waste as he noted that Japan should've used her carriers to hunt down the US carriers and CA's that escaped PH. He noted that the forces subduing Malysia, Burma, and the DEI did not really need the added firepower they provided and they scored no notable victories aside from dusting off the rather worthless HMS Hermes and the bombing of Darwin, which accomplished little. Your opponent may reach the same conclusion and come looking for your fleet. By 1943 you'll have the numbers and the quality to meet him straight up.

China has been a low priority for me since I'm ignorant of the theatre and the AI Japanese are not at all aggressive there. I do move the SE Asia Chinese units into Burma although they seem to get there just at the same time the Japanese do, and get their asses handed to them.

That's all I can think of for now, good luck!

Cheers,
Rob [8D]



tanker4145 -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 10:04:57 PM)

I like giving ground as slowly as possible with the land units, especially in Malaya. You just have to know when to run and when to stand. I also think Rangoon is unholdable and a waste. I don't know if I'd even leave anything there to slow him down. Heck if he pushed hard, I'd even forget about trying to defend Mandalay. I'd just slow them down to get the Chinese divisions into India. It depends on your stile.

I'd use a few of the destroyers in the DEI area in single or two ship surface TF's to keep him honest with his transport TF's and pull most everything out as far as ships go. Concentrate the dutch land forces on the bases with resources/oile/etc if possible. I recommend pulling most of the aircraft out of PI and move them to India. The P-40s and B-17s are great over there.

My other big concern is reinforcing the LOC from the west coast to Australia. Get land units and engineers into Christmas Island, Johnston Island, Pago-Pago, and Suva. Those are the key ones in my book. Get patrol planes for ASW and Naval Search to each. Later on maybe a small bomber or fighter unit so you have something to fight off raids and assist your carriers. Get them all going to level 2 AF and level 3 Port at a minimum and get supply and fuel to them.

As for Carriers, I'd keep them hidden till mid-'42. I just did a raid in feb 42 with 2 carriers on wake and got caught by KB. It was just dumb on my part since I didn't know where they are, and I lost them for a complete waste. I just got too itchy. For the Allies, I think a fleet in being is a great threat to Japanese aggression. Just set commitment criterea for the carriers and only use them in mass. That way you only use them when you are willing to risk all or none.

These are all basic things I like (or wish I would) to do. Probably doesn't help much, but I had the .02 cents sticking around.



EUBanana -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 10:21:51 PM)

I see lots of talk about defending Clark Field here - surely if you make a stand in the Philippines and attempt to cling on until February 42, say, the bottom line is you are going to be bypassed, just as Rabaul was bypassed, and you are going to lose the presumably fairly substantial forces left in the Philippines.

If you dont pull out ASAP, the Jap CVLs will wipe out any transports you try to sneak out, so unless you pull out in the first few days, it strikes me you are trapped by the IJN, and for little real gain. Extended efforts to hold on seem to involve 30 sub transport forces, when they could be infesting the DEI and extracting a toll from his invasion forces, if I was a Jap player I'd be very happy to have the US submarine force busy with supply runs.

Isn't it best to just leg it as fast as you can with everything you can possibly load? I saw on another AAR the Allies managed to put some quite significant ground forces on Java, mostly Phillippine escapees, surely thats the better strategy?



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 10:31:30 PM)

Rob! Don't be a kamikaze...that's Xargun's role later. Hold back your naval assets. None of those silly bombardment missions and such. Don't let him discover the location of your CV's. Don't agree to the Allied sub doctrine because it is BOGUS![8D] Your subs don't fire at anything. Don't overcommit in Burma...use the SEAsia Chinese.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 10:34:48 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

I see lots of talk about defending Clark Field here - surely if you make a stand in the Philippines and attempt to cling on until February 42, say, the bottom line is you are going to be bypassed, just as Rabaul was bypassed, and you are going to lose the presumably fairly substantial forces left in the Philippines.

If you dont pull out ASAP, the Jap CVLs will wipe out any transports you try to sneak out, so unless you pull out in the first few days, it strikes me you are trapped by the IJN, and for little real gain. Extended efforts to hold on seem to involve 30 sub transport forces, when they could be infesting the DEI and extracting a toll from his invasion forces, if I was a Jap player I'd be very happy to have the US submarine force busy with supply runs.

Isn't it best to just leg it as fast as you can with everything you can possibly load? I saw on another AAR the Allies managed to put some quite significant ground forces on Java, mostly Phillippine escapees, surely thats the better strategy?


Then Japan can get to Java earlier. Fight in the PI and Malaysia. Pull out portions of units when you can so you have a "cadre" from which the units can rebuild to their full TOEs after the "parent" unit surrenders.



dr. smith -> RE: Xargun and Rob my side of the map (11/4/2004 10:45:35 PM)

Burma: I think with the new Zones of Control, Rangoon is indefensible. It becomes another Singapore since any IJA units come via the railroad directly north of Rangoon, leaving you no where to retreat to (unless its the river surrounded hex to the NW). In any case, do like the Tommies did, evacuate, its a deathtrap.



rroberson -> commitment criterea (11/4/2004 11:00:36 PM)

So what would you guys consider a good criteria for committing naval air assets? Raids are out of the question, but what would be on the table?

Also to defend rangoon or not...that seems to be the question. i can commit a massive amount of transports to the area to evacue the oil and fall back, but all the way to mandalay - akyab?

Still waiting for dec 7 to arrive...when it does Ill post screenies.



Ron Saueracker -> RE: commitment criterea (11/4/2004 11:45:15 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

So what would you guys consider a good criteria for committing naval air assets? Raids are out of the question, but what would be on the table?

Also to defend rangoon or not...that seems to be the question. i can commit a massive amount of transports to the area to evacue the oil and fall back, but all the way to mandalay - akyab?

Still waiting for dec 7 to arrive...when it does Ill post screenies.


Rangoon is bad news. I always lose units trying to defend it. Akyab/Mandalay all the way is the best stance. Don't let him see your CVs, period. (Does not mean you park them on the West Coast) That way you force him into being more conservative as he does not know if he will get his fingers slapped if Japan reaches too far. If you lose them, you are SCREWED, as you well know. Once you have the big five, DO NOT go on the offensive, none of this "Well, Kwajalein looks juicy," stuff. You are still at a disadvantage unless he comes after you on your turf.



Rob322 -> RE: commitment criterea (11/4/2004 11:46:12 PM)

I'd spend the time to build up Mandalay over Akyab. Oil is in Mandalay and once it falls the Japanese have a straight run at the Burma Rd. Akyab is closer to your major Indian bases but gets there via trail and so he'll move slowly that way. I like to fight over Mandalay and then crawl back to Imphal, which you should be making (along with Kohima to the NE) impregnable. I typically leave the AVG in place at Mandalay for that reason and let her stay there until the hex is in danger.

Oh yes, totally agree with Ron S. NO Allied Sub doctrine, all you have in a bunch of subs that come home low and gas but loaded up with torpedoes. [:-] Certainly you need to spend some time weeding out weak commanders from the US Sub force but turning off that doctrine does most of the trick. Your torps suck but you will score some kills. The only drawback is that your subs will get shot at more often but as Japanese ASW is not the most fearsome force on the planet, let those guys earn their commands.

Speaking of commanders, the British have some simply awful commanders, especially at HQ level. III Corps in Dehli has a guy rated L:26 I:11 (or very close to that). SE Asia starts with Pownall who's 40/40. There are better choices out there and spend some time and PP's fixing those guys. You may not do much better than history but improving the leadership can help you out. Ghormeley in the South Pacific is another early candidate for reassignment to an AK making the SF to Pago Pago run.



Raverdave -> RE: commitment criterea (11/5/2004 12:10:28 AM)

Yes drop Rangoon.........send the supplies/fuel that you pull out to Akyab and the oil to India. By making a stand at Akyab to will force him to divert forces to suppress/invade, which in turn will help in tghe defence of Mandalay. he can not take one without dealing with the other. Send all of the dutch minelaying ships to the Bay of Bengal from the get-go and sow mines.



rroberson -> RE: commitment criterea (11/5/2004 12:13:12 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Yes drop Rangoon.........send the supplies/fuel that you pull out to Akyab and the oil to India. By making a stand at Akyab to will force him to divert forces to suppress/invade, which in turn will help in tghe defence of Mandalay. he can not take one without dealing with the other. Send all of the dutch minelaying ships to the Bay of Bengal from the get-go and sow mines.


That guarantees their loss to enemy air, worth it?



tanker4145 -> RE: commitment criterea (11/5/2004 4:42:10 AM)

I think the AVG should start by covering Rangoon while the supplies and fuel and forces are pulled out. Then I recommend sending part of them to China and surprising a raid or two of bombers. Then, it depends on your enemy. If he is pushing hard towards Mandalay you may need to commit them there to harras bombers. If he is using a good amount of zeros in the theater though I say move them to India and rest them. The Zero bonus is too good in the begining to try and stand up to.

I'm more than willing to abandon Mandalay because it's close to his supply and plays into his hands. I can defend better closer to Inida. But it really depends on what your opponent is doing.



Raverdave -> RE: commitment criterea (11/5/2004 6:24:18 AM)

Well in the two games that I have tried it I have lost 90% in one game and 25% in another. It all depends on which direction you choose to send your ships, then run them out of Diamond Harbour.



rroberson -> 12-8-41 Screenies (11/5/2004 9:42:03 PM)

Pearl

[image]local://upfiles/12111/Ig114053326.jpg[/image]



rroberson -> RE: 12-8-41 Screenies (11/5/2004 9:44:45 PM)

Battleship Row, mostly the heavies, lots of destroyers and cruisers undamaged, how long does KB stay this time?

[image]local://upfiles/12111/Li212834149.jpg[/image]



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