RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (Full Version)

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Ron Saueracker -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/22/2004 10:47:07 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Can't the auto assignment of leaders just be nixed as a feature?


I ask again. Would this not get rid of any "automatically" disappearing leaders? Nobody uses the auto aids anyway after playing a bit and realize they are not aids at all but liabilities.



michaelm75au -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/22/2004 11:56:24 AM)

I traced back through my save games, and found the one before I activated PTs with the Japanese named commander.

Now I ran some test starting from this point.
(a) Loaded save game. No PT task force activated.
Run forward one day. DD Helm sinks plus one other Japanese AP or PC during turn.
Went to my Transport TF and activated PTs. I now have a Japanese named commander in charge of them. Ah..

(b) Re-loaded save game. Acitvated PTs first. Okay, USN guy in charge (one of the PT captains).
Run forward one day. DD Helm sinks plus one other Japanese AP or PC during turn.
Everyone still in command where they should be.

(c) Re-loaded save game. Split my Transport TF so that I could only activate a few PTs. Okay, USN in charge.
Run forward one day. DD Helm did not sink this time but one other Japanese AP or PC did during turn.
Went to my Transport TF and activated rest of PTs. I now have a Japanese named commander in charge of them. Ah..

It sure looks like sinking ship/leaders in pacting this. Also I NEVER use auto-commander and must admit I never noticed the leader issue, unless I was activating PTs.

Michael



michaelm75au -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/22/2004 12:33:16 PM)

I wonder what would happen if two ships/TFs ended up having the same captain/TF commander, and one was sunk/disbanded?
Would the second ship/TF suddenly have a "mixed up/confused" captain/TF commander?[X(]

Michael



PeteG662 -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/22/2004 3:58:39 PM)

I have started a new scenario 15 as well and will be vigilant about save games and leaders and see what else I can come up with for Pry.



dtravel -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/22/2004 7:30:45 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Can't the auto assignment of leaders just be nixed as a feature?


I ask again. Would this not get rid of any "automatically" disappearing leaders? Nobody uses the auto aids anyway after playing a bit and realize they are not aids at all but liabilities.


I doubt that would do it. I've never used auto-assignment of leaders and have been bitten by this bug.



dtravel -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/22/2004 7:33:55 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: michaelm

I traced back through my save games, and found the one before I activated PTs with the Japanese named commander.

Now I ran some test starting from this point.
(a) Loaded save game. No PT task force activated.
Run forward one day. DD Helm sinks plus one other Japanese AP or PC during turn.
Went to my Transport TF and activated PTs. I now have a Japanese named commander in charge of them. Ah..


Immediately upon creation, one of the PT Boats had a Japanese CO? That's ... troubling.



Tankerace -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/23/2004 1:18:08 AM)

I can't understand this. It seems the more we investigate this, the worse it becomes. I have never seen anything in a game on this scale that wasn't intentional... I too kind of wonder if it is a Grigsby gotcha gone awry.



pasternakski -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/23/2004 2:06:32 AM)

Well, I'm still trying to get a repeating save. I seem to be too busy playing the game to review a large number of commanders from turn to turn in order to catch a sample of this thing. As Radar said to Frank Burns on being chided for sleeping with his teddy bear, "I'm trying to do better, sir."

In the meantime, I keep wondering about stuff, hoping that accidentally asking a right question might be helpful. Has anyone ever seen an Allied commander in charge of a Japanese ship, TF, or unit? I have four games going now (two PBEM and two AI, one of each on each side), all started under v. 1.3. So far on the Allied side (most advanced game is in mid-March 1942), I have not seen land units or major combatant ships taken over by Japanese junior officers. It's just been PT/MTBs and the commander of the ship from which the TF commander is selected so far (and only transport TFs, not air or surface combat TFs like used to happen in 1.21 and before).

The most interesting substitution I have seen so far was a Japanese major (whose name is not in the database) in charge of an American transport TF. When I clicked on his name, I was given a selection of three Japanese majors to choose from, all of whom were stated to be best suited to command of an air combat TF.

I can't remember. Did we have this happening before v. 1.20/1.21?



Tankerace -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/23/2004 2:09:28 AM)

I had it happen after the very first patch, though it was minor. I had Halsey go bye-bye, but that was all I remember. I think whatever they did to fix it made it worse, because It was pad after 1.21, but its worse (seemingly) now.



pasternakski -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/23/2004 2:23:55 AM)

Although I'm still only in the first three months of the campaign in all four games I'm playing, I have yet to see the "heavy hitters" like Halsey replaced (I remember once seeing Hornet show up with a Japanese WO on the bridge instead of Mitscher).

BTW, all of us are playing with absolutely nothing being done automatically on our behalf by the AI - no sub control, no auto convoy, nothing. It seems (so far) to minimize the problem and confine it to minor ships and transport convoys.

Oh, yeah, one other thing - the substitute Japanese commanders almost always have excellent ratings - 60s and above, some even in the upper 80s.



Tankerace -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/23/2004 2:27:02 AM)

When halsey disappeared, back in the first month I had the game, I had AI on in China, Auto Convoy, and Auto sub. Now, I only play with Auto Sub (thought that is soon to come off). No heavey hitters as yet, but both the captains of the Enterprise and the Sara have been replaced.



PeteG662 -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/23/2004 4:33:42 AM)

I have one for Pry maybe. Created a PT boat TF first turn scenario 15.....PT boat of TF commander was sunk. This guy was the PT boat commander and there were a bunch of other boats with commanders on. Result on turn 2 was a WO in command of the TF.......what happened to the other commanders on the other boats taking over? This is not the changing over to the enemy bug but may be part of the leader replacement issue totally.



PeteG662 -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/24/2004 5:19:22 AM)

I have a second one and it is only turn two now. Jap LT takes over command of DD Bagley near Pearl Harbor......sent save to Pry. I will keep searching for these suckers until this gets fixed!



Tankerace -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/27/2004 12:43:30 AM)

Well, any updates?



pry -> RE: Thought on leader bug issue (11/27/2004 1:13:42 AM)

Making progress I have been looking at saves for the last two day's (How did you spend your Thanksgiving[;)]) and identified 2 possible causes and a few more that I suspect might be a factor...

Keep the saves coming they actually do help...



V2 -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/28/2004 1:26:50 AM)

Thanks for the effort Pry, and everyone else too!

I hate PT boats in this game. The only thing PT boats do well is defend Gavavutu in "In Harm's Way." They're stupid. I'll bet anyone a beer that this leader problem is linked to creating PT boats.

My American opponent in 1.3 just lost Nimitz, and he's got PT boats. Simple Simon says: 2 + 2 = 4.

Does the leader problem (1.3 or 1.21) occur in any games where no PT boat are created?



LeatherneckIllini -> Admiral Nimitz abducted. (edit) (11/28/2004 1:31:41 AM)

V2 and I are now to 20 Jan 42 in Scen 15 and I noticed I had some no name Maj running CENPAC. I have checked every TF and no Nimitz, and have placed Halsey as COMCENPAC. The only old save I had around was from 10 Dec 41 and Nimitz was present. I made no changes to CENPAC since 8 Dec 41. Any clue where he might have gone, or even better, how I can get him back?

Edit: Looking back 12 Jan 42 he's there, 13 Jan 42 the ignomious WO is COMCENPAC and on 14 Jan 42 a Maj Ellet takes charge. [:@] [:@] [:@]



dereck -> RE: Admiral Nimitz abducted. (11/28/2004 1:33:19 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherneckIllini

V2 and I are now to 20 Jan 42 in Scen 15 and I noticed I had some no name Maj running CENPAC. I have checked every TF and no Nimitz, and have placed Halsey as COMCENPAC. The only old save I had around was from 10 Dec 41 and Nimitz was present. I made no changes to CENPAC since 8 Dec 41. Any clue where he might have gone, or even better, how I can get him back?


You've been hit by the Lost Leader Bug ... I'm afraid Nimitz is gone for the entire game.



dtravel -> RE: Admiral Nimitz abducted. (edit) (11/28/2004 3:47:01 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherneckIllini

V2 and I are now to 20 Jan 42 in Scen 15 and I noticed I had some no name Maj running CENPAC. I have checked every TF and no Nimitz, and have placed Halsey as COMCENPAC. The only old save I had around was from 10 Dec 41 and Nimitz was present. I made no changes to CENPAC since 8 Dec 41. Any clue where he might have gone, or even better, how I can get him back?

Edit: Looking back 12 Jan 42 he's there, 13 Jan 42 the ignomious WO is COMCENPAC and on 14 Jan 42 a Maj Ellet takes charge. [:@] [:@] [:@]



KEEP THOSE SAVE GAMES!!! Send them to Pry at the email he gave earlier in the thread.



pry -> RE: Admiral Nimitz abducted. (edit) (11/28/2004 3:56:06 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: LeatherneckIllini
Edit: Looking back 12 Jan 42 he's there, 13 Jan 42 the ignomious WO is COMCENPAC and on 14 Jan 42 a Maj Ellet takes charge. [:@] [:@] [:@]


Send me this save 12/Jan/42 and your password (it will be kept confidential)

pry-witp@houston.rr.com

V2 I will need your password also you can email it to me it will also be kept confidential



pry -> RE: Admiral Nimitz abducted. (edit) (11/28/2004 4:30:21 AM)

Arrg... dreaded double post



Halsey -> RE: Admiral Nimitz abducted. (11/28/2004 6:05:01 AM)

A close encounter of the worst kind. [:D]

I'm getting so that I keep ship officers in charge of TF's. I don't want to waste PP's on disappearing Admirals.



pry -> RE: Admiral Nimitz abducted. (edit) (11/28/2004 6:45:12 PM)

LeatherneckIllini and V2

Good news bad news...

Bad news is that I can not get the problem to repeat from the saves.

Good news is that you can probably go back to the Jan 12 turn and run it over again and Nimitz will not dissapear... I dont know how far you all have gone since this but it is a least an option if you both agree.


Thanks for trying to help it is appreciated

[image]local://upfiles/8092/Nl294902020.jpg[/image]



rtrapasso -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/29/2004 5:38:01 AM)

quote:

Does the leader problem (1.3 or 1.21) occur in any games where no PT boat are created?


Well, I have a game where suddenly there is a Japanese commanding one of my ships. I have not created any PT boats yet (still in Dec 1941) - running ver 1.30

I didn't have this problem in version 1.21 games - but in my current game, I reassigned one Allied commander - don't think I did that in my other game(s). Now I currently have 1 Japanese commander. Cause and effect? dunno - but I am guessing maybe.

PS - Do I get a beer?



ADavidB -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/29/2004 5:56:51 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

quote:

Does the leader problem (1.3 or 1.21) occur in any games where no PT boat are created?


Well, I have a game where suddenly there is a Japanese commanding one of my ships. I have not created any PT boats yet (still in Dec 1941) - running ver 1.30

I didn't have this problem in version 1.21 games - but in my current game, I reassigned one Allied commander - don't think I did that in my other game(s). Now I currently have 1 Japanese commander. Cause and effect? dunno - but I am guessing maybe.

PS - Do I get a beer?


I had the problem of getting Japanese commanders of Allied TFs, as well as WO 0/0 commanders in v1.21 and am having it in v1.30 also.

Dave Baranyi



dtravel -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/29/2004 7:30:42 AM)

I refer people to Pry's post of 11/26. There appear to be multiple causes for this problem.



PeteG662 -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/29/2004 3:15:12 PM)

Folks,

I have been sending save game turns both before and after these changes occur. If you guys can do the same we can get this things squashed. Don't just talk about it here, lets get those save games in to Pry! BTW, I have another one for you this evening Pry! I am going through every ship, LCU, TF and air unit every turn and checking leaders. In three turns I have had multiple leader changes.

NOTE TO PRY: In one of the leader changes where there was a Japanese officer commanding a DD after the TF split, when I recombined the separate units again into a TF, the DD commander went back to a USN CDR........



V2 -> RE: Admiral Nimitz abducted. (edit) (11/29/2004 7:24:38 PM)

quote:


Good news is that you can probably go back to the Jan 12 turn and run it over again and Nimitz will not dissapear... I dont know how far you all have gone since this but it is a least an option if you both agree.


Thanks again Pry. It was 20 JAN 42 when we caught it, and I offered going back to 12 JAN 42 as a "do-over", but he wants to stick it out and chalk it up to special Jap commandos poisoning the food at Makalapa.

Hope we get this fixed though, because I lost Fuchida (don't know how or when) and if I lose Tanaka or Yamaguchi I WILL take a do-over!

Also, I'm backing off my stance that creating PT boats has something to do with the problem - my opponent didn't create any PT boats. I'll modify it thus: the very existence of PT boats screws up the leader board!

Still love the game though.



V2 -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/29/2004 7:28:27 PM)

PS - Do I get a beer?
[/quote]

What flavor???



rtrapasso -> RE: Another Leader Bug savegame file (11/29/2004 8:37:58 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: V2

PS - Do I get a beer?


What flavor???


How about a Sam Adams Cherry Wheat?[sm=party-smiley-012.gif]



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