RE: December Update? (Full Version)

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Rainbow7 -> RE: December Update? (12/9/2004 8:45:56 PM)

The "single-screen map" is an issue that arose with CotD also. It's, of course, too early to see how not having it will hamper overall strategic planning in GoA, but my guess is that a non-interactive, large scale, map is always a benefit (with little icons for known unit placements), and that this game will need it as much as any other.

Looking forward to the finished product.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: December Update? (12/10/2004 10:55:07 PM)

Hm. I don't like the graphics, though it's not ugly either. I'd say it's passable.

Some comments based of available screenies.

- Cities look ugly, don't look like cities at all, they look like acorns (I hope that's the word I seek)
- Unit counters are so very big, yet they contain so little information, and what little info they have, is hidden in very small numerals. Numbers should be bigger, and counters overall smaller, cuter and more easily readable.
- I'd suggest dropping the soldier graphics from the counters themselves. These are division or corps sized units yes? Then go for usual NATO symbology, as specialised units (eg. engineers, armor [:D] etc.) are rare at this level anyway.
- Cattara (Austrian Adriatic base) should be Cattaro, or simply Kotor, or even more precisely Boka Kotorska. Kotor/Cattaro is the town itself, but is totally unimportant. Natural bay, which served as excellend naval base is/was called Boka Kotorska.

Frank don't get me wrong but what are the chances of you getting the budget to hire some graphic professional to do better graphics? [>:]

O.



Oleg Mastruko -> RE: December Update? (12/10/2004 10:59:26 PM)

And your Serbian flag is wrong (this appears to be Yugoslav flag).

This is Serbian WW1 flag (and Serbian modern flag as well, though I think they don't have the crown anymore).

http://www.fotw.net/flags/cs-sr_k.html

O.



wodin -> RE: December Update? (12/11/2004 3:50:05 AM)

I agree with smaller counters but keep the soldier. Or give an option for real WW1 symbols.

Also I must admit that I dont get a WW1 feel from the map. How you would do that I dont know. Maybe give it a sepia tone. Something is missing from the screenshots I just cant put my finger on it. The cities look very poor aswell.

When I said you cant see the hex I ment even when a counter isnt on one you still cant make them out in some areas.

I know that graphics dont really matter and if the gameplay is good then great. However I really dont like them. I would have prfered graphics from Strategic Command than these to be honest.

Still Im sure the gameplay will be superb.

The map looks very...........bland.

Here is an image of an upcoming WW1 boardgame's map. I like it.

[image]local://upfiles/9005/Db847280866.jpg[/image]

In fact here is a link to the game. Check out the counters aswell. I know this is at a different scale but it still looks better. I did think this game would be at the corps level though anyway.

LINK



JungleFox -> RE: December Update? (12/11/2004 5:38:58 AM)

Overall the graphics are very good. The cities are a little odd looking and maybe the counters are a bit large but this is a very nice looking computer game. Color and atmosphere. For me a must buy so whenever it's ready, so's my credit card.



wodin -> RE: December Update? (12/11/2004 5:49:33 AM)

Wish I could agree.

How about some screenshots of the other game screens?



*Lava* -> RE: December Update? (12/11/2004 11:42:44 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

I agree with smaller counters but keep the soldier. Or give an option for real WW1 symbols.



Hi!

Actually they are not counters, they are cards. And they are in .bmp format, so easily modded.

Remember the game is "Grand Strategy." From my time testing the alpha, you have all the information that you need. Not sure what else needs to be displayed.

Ray (alias Lava)



wodin -> RE: December Update? (12/11/2004 5:28:31 PM)

Lava,

Im sure the gameplay is superb. The counters/cards I can live with. The Map isnt pretty at all. The cites are terrible. You cant see the hexes.. The rivers are massive, to the point that Western Europe doesnt look like Europe at all. The rest of it looks like a green blotch.

I know this doesnt effect gameplay.

Can wee see some other screenshots that arent of the map?

Actaully the more I look at the counters the more I like them. Though Im sure someone will Mod them to make them even better.

Its the Map I dont like. At leats make those rivers a little narrower.



sol_invictus -> RE: December Update? (12/11/2004 6:35:07 PM)

Overall, I really like the graphics. Sure, the cities could look a little better, but I think they look fine. Unit counters look very nice. My only quibble is that the hexsides blend into nothingness when they run into the light green terrain. Maybe hexsides should be black with national boundaries remaining red.

Frank, while looking at the screens again, I noticed that the British units are the only ones on a knee. At first I thought this was because they are entrenched, but some of the Italians, French, and Germans are also entrenched, yet they are still standing up. Is there some visual indicator in the unit graphics, other than the number, that represents a unit being entrenched. If not, could this be added without to much trouble. It would be very nice to have all entrenched units take a knee. No biggy, just a little chrome.



FrankHunter -> RE: December Update? (12/11/2004 10:24:35 PM)

I can't upload screenshots of the other screens or even the panels next to the main display because that's what I'm waiting for to start testing. As soon as those are done, testing will begin. Right now its just blobs of colour with the word "temporary" stamped on it. Not what I'd want to upload here. Once the rest of the graphics are ready Matrix will set up a website and there'll be lots of screenshots and other information.

Graphics will always be an issue of personal taste. But like Danube, the map and counters, and even all the other graphics, may be modified. The person who did the graphics is in fact a graphics professional.

That shot of the game above. that looks to me like Schlieffen Plan from Decision Games. Its not upcoming, its been out for years. Its divisional level and covers the western front in 1914. Interesting example because many people were so turned off by those graphics that I think it hurt the whole series which is a shame because I think its a very playable system, especially in the east.

Thanks for the info on the Serbian flag and Cattaro, I will pass that along.

The icon on the counter only displays type. The entrenchment status is the number above the one in the lower left.

Hexes are an overlay that can be toggled.



wodin -> RE: December Update? (12/12/2004 2:50:47 AM)

Frank,

You are right my mistake. The map Ive shown isnt great I admit and isnt a good example. However it does have detail and I think looks better than the one in he game. So if people where turned off by this map............



Hanal -> RE: December Update? (12/12/2004 3:54:28 AM)

I think the problem with the map you showed Wodin is that it's too "busy".....it's too cluttered and when you get down to the terrain layer, it really isn't that great......but no matter, it's the gameplay that will make or break any game.....



wodin -> RE: December Update? (12/12/2004 4:49:01 AM)

Yeah I chose a bad example here I must admit.

Sorry.

Just take alook at the quality of some of the maps in other games here at Matrix.



FrankHunter -> RE: December Update? (12/12/2004 5:48:59 AM)

I have to emphasize that although I'm one of the guys that didn't care for the maps of Der Weltkrieg series (the triangle graphics kind of threw me), I liked the game system. I haven't bought the latest addition to that series so I'm not sure how it does at representing the war in France after 1914 but it was a good game.



Sytass -> RE: December Update? (12/12/2004 5:38:23 PM)

Mmmm..... this AAR looks great. :) So far my WW1 needs have only been fulfilled by Victoria or TOAW scenarios, so I am greatly looking forward to this one.



derf -> RE: December Update? (12/20/2004 2:22:45 PM)

personally i like the graphics. I like the "board game" feel of the maps and counters.



*Lava* -> RE: December Update? (12/21/2004 3:44:46 AM)

Hi!

Don't know if anything has changed from the alpha, but those screenshots don't use fog of war. With fog of war on, you will wish it was cluttered. [;)]

Ray (alias Lava)



sol_invictus -> RE: December Update? (12/21/2004 6:34:41 AM)

Who let you loose to post? Get back to testing so we all can get our paws on this game.[:'(]



Marc von Martial -> RE: December Update? (12/21/2004 12:11:44 PM)

quote:

Frank don't get me wrong but what are the chances of you getting the budget to hire some graphic professional to do better graphics?


We have a professional working on it. The map is beeing reworked currently anyway.



wodin -> RE: December Update? (12/21/2004 6:38:57 PM)

Excellent!



lonewulf -> RE: December Update? (12/22/2004 7:41:08 PM)

Very nice..>This game looks great! Very great job!


Long Live Prussia!



Maj. Aaron -> RE: December Update? (12/26/2004 11:59:22 AM)

First, I'd like to say that the game looks great. You did a nice job. But I also would like to offer some constructive criticism. Don't take this the wrong way, I'm just hoping it'll help. If you like my ideas, fine; if not, that's great too. I obviously haven't played the game yet, but I would like to comment on the screenshots. I understand that professionals are reworking the map anyway, but here's my take on what's wrong with the look of the game. I agree with Oleg Mastruko and wodin on several points. First of all, I think the background color (green) is rather drab. It should have a sharper tone to it. The same applies to mountains and rivers. Wodin provided a nice sharp map. Although I do agree that his map is busy, it does have a much sharper, better feel to it that more accurately reflects the period. I also do not like the cities. Dots would be an improvement over the current acorns. In my opinion, the map looks so watered down and whispy, it almost looks childish. Especially with the almost cartoon looking soldiers (or ships or horsemen) in each of the the unit counters. I agree with Oleg completely that the soldiers should be dropped and NATO symobology should be used. Or perhaps something along the lines of the units in the Road from Sumter the Appomattox. I also think the unit counters are far too large and white. Here is my recommendation for background: make the background of each country a different color, or at least make it a darker, sharper shade of green. Also, the outline of the continent is terrible. It looks like a child drew it. Please make Europe look precisely like Europe. I understand that mods are possible of the the counters. But it seems to me that getting the original to look good is important. I think what is needed is greater attention to detail. I think the look of the game should really grab you, and also have a historical feel. Anyway, these are just a few thoughts. Again, I hope this is helpful feedback. I'm not just trying to be a naysayer. I'm sure the game would work great anyway.



Bobbylev1 -> RE: December Update? (12/27/2004 5:24:53 PM)

i was just wondering if there will be an option during gameplay to few how many casualties your nation (and the others) has sustained?

This way you could see how well one of your offensives (or the enemies) was doing as during WW1 it was casualty rates and not territory gained which determined who had won a battle.

Can't wait for completed game! Have been waiting ages for a strategy game on WW1!



*Lava* -> RE: December Update? (12/27/2004 8:22:05 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Vive L Empereur

i was just wondering if there will be an option during gameplay to few how many casualties your nation (and the others) has sustained?


Hi!

Well, on the alpha there was for each side (not by country), right there on the main screen.

And when you see those numbers click up, you realize what you are simulating is a meat grinder.

Ray (alias Lava)



wodin -> RE: December Update? (12/27/2004 10:20:00 PM)

Why cant a satelite image of Europe with slight modifications be used?



FrankHunter -> RE: December Update? (12/29/2004 12:01:16 AM)

Casualties are displayed for your side on the screen. Currently, my CP have suffered just under 10 million as of early 1917 while the Entente has suffered over 12 million. You can also get casualties for each nation.

In a game I'm currently playing as the CP I pushed as far as I could into France and then entrenched and moved most of the army east against Russia. I made some headway, taking Warsaw but while I was "gone" the British and French broke through in the west and have now crossed the Rhine. I've stopped them only by bringing most of my army back west and leaving Austria to hold off the Russians. The Turks are doing well in the Caucasus. Several British corps are sitting in port in the Med ready to invade Bulgaria or the Ottomans I believe.

America, Romania and Greece have all joined the Entente and I see the Entente is now bringing Assault troops up to the front. No sign of tanks. My CP on the other hand has been too poor to invest in R&D for the past year although I have great artillery.

I believe I need to fix the Victory conditions as the game is still calling it a CP victory :)



Hanal -> RE: December Update? (12/29/2004 12:22:27 AM)

Frank, is the game you described against the AI or another player?.....if it's against the AI then it sounds very promising......



sol_invictus -> RE: December Update? (12/29/2004 12:29:33 AM)

I agree; if this is against the AI, then this is very encouraging. Is the naval blockade causing the CP to be so R&D poor? I don't know why, but I am glad that Turkey is doing well. Can't wait for release!



FrankHunter -> RE: December Update? (12/29/2004 2:30:30 AM)

Its against the AI and yes its the blockade that wrecks the German economy because although the production is there, the materials aren't so the German economy runs at less and less of its potential maximum. Lack of food is as big a factor as lack of raw materials.

Austria is doing okay but its pretty much out of manpower, it gets a trickle each turn but far less than what it needs to rebuild its corps. Russia is on the verge of taking Przemysl, Lemberg and Cracow. Italy pushed for Trieste, was defeated and now Austria is one hex from Venice but without the HQs and troops it needs to continue the offensive.

Bulgaria and Romania face each other across the border, neither side has attacked.

Looking back, I put everything into the army and that was probably a mistake. I kept the navy in port all game except for shipping through the Baltic so that I wouldn't have to spend resources on naval sorties. My subs were swept from the sea because I didn't build any, so all I had was what I started with. But even now I have to rebuild much of my army because the British and French put a lot of R&D into defences and its pretty bloody when I attack them. Even though I'm 2 levels ahead of them in artillery I can't smash their defences fast enough and I don't have any stossstruppen. Clearly if the scoring system was working properly I'm defeated.



Hanal -> RE: December Update? (12/29/2004 3:37:07 AM)

Good news for us AI players as it appears that it is aggressive and performs R&D intelligently....I have been especially interested in the way you were implementing the use of gas attacks in GoA...have you tried it and does it perform, both militarily and politically as you desired?



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