RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (Full Version)

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Pippin -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (5/8/2005 4:55:14 PM)

quote:

I'd like a game session to last a few hours, but not hotseat it. If we did so, the game would never end as my sons would get fed up with the the delays, and frankly so would I.


That's the problem in hot-seat where FOG comes into play. Everyone has to leave the room, or turn away. And the user doing his moves has to protect his screen from those quick over the shoulder peeks. This, amoungst other issues.






nukkxx5058 -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (5/14/2005 9:11:10 PM)

Hi all,

One more "vote" for the YES !! TCP/IP is absolutely necessary for fun !

PBEM is too slow and it's very difficult to refocus on the game after one week has passed and everybody played. TCP/IP is dynamic, allow real time diplomacy etc ... The question is not about the duration of a full gamebecause obviously, nobody expect to finish a game in one session but to save and reload next time. The question is the lengh of one game turn, provided it's nut a simultaneous turn based game (simultaneous TB Games is the top !!!)

Some say they don't have time to play TCPIP. Very well ! but that's not a reason to deprive others of such a pleasure. WE HAVE TIME TO PLAY ! ;)

Well, I don't want to repeat all what has been said before ... but please, Go on with TCP/IP !!! (at least in a patch to come).

BTW, I really thing that a company like matrix, specialised on turn based games (and don't change please!) should for the future seriously consider simultaneous turn based games option for all games. That's the future of online gaming with TB games. In the mean time, standart turn base TCP/IP will be great. (we can always perform diplomcy actions while it's not our turn ...)




jwilkerson -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (5/22/2005 6:04:38 AM)

For years myself and some fellow gamers - have dreamed of playing EIA ( the board game ) with 7 players ... but we've never been able to get more then 4-5 for a long weekend ( 4 days ) ... so we could only get into the 1807-8 period ... and still had the problems of "bouncing Spain" around between us etc.

PBEM would put this dream within reach ... the people I'd be likely to play with are in different time zones and work different schedules ... trying to play EIA online would not work for us.

Right now with WITP ... I play 5-15 turns of PBEM per day ( in 5 different campaign games ) and the pace is just fine ... averaging about 2x real life ...




coregames -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (5/23/2005 8:15:33 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: sniperfodder
I woun't mind the ablitly to play both with in one game, ie PBEM during the week, but somehow have it auto sinc if we can link up on the weekend. Again, not at the cost of a delay.



This would be very helpful based on what kajmakchalan said earlier in this thread:

quote:

It's a slow, measured game where only 3-4 players are likely to be busy at all at any one time. The other players will be building up their armies or licking their wounds, and not engaged enough to justify IP play.


Players actively involved in conflict could play TCP/IP if available, while those powers who were recouping could sort-of "sit out", submitting their turns by email.

I can see how EiA is much more PBEM suitable than World in Flames is; I think that is how our gaming group would play for the most part. I can also see the advantage of synchronous play for a faster and more involved game when the players can all get together on the same schedule.




jhdeerslayer -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (5/23/2005 8:49:21 PM)

PBEM is always my preference for time and flexibility versus IP. Being a family man, I just can't sit uninterrupted at a PC for hours some IP games take. IP has zero meaning to me in any game except maybe COD types but that time commitment online is relatively short.



Reiryc -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (5/28/2005 7:51:33 AM)

Sign me on for preferring TCP/IP...

Also being a family man, I seek as much time as possible to be in front of the computer as opposed to with the family. [:)]



pooroldflick -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (5/28/2005 8:00:20 AM)

I think it'd be advantageous to be able to play by IP, hotseat, and PBEM. The more options the better in my opinion.

Yet again if this delays the game then add it later. I have no idea how much time it adds to game designing to add stuff like this.



ian77 -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (5/31/2005 5:19:58 AM)

You will need to implement Hotseat, IP/LAN, and PBEM to meet different players circumstances, and individual players will want/need all three at different times as well!

Personally our group intend to try hot seating during our regular Sunday get togethers, three of us work together and will play as two or three humans versus computer controlled opponents via LAN, and I should like to have two or three PBEM seven handed games on the go[:D]



AaronTPV -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (8/5/2005 8:56:11 AM)

In all honesty, in this day and age of computers there really isn't much reason not to have all of the options ian77 mentioned above (Hotseat, IP/LAN, and PBEM). I certainly don't mean to knock anyone who has been working hard on the coding of this game--I couldn't do it--but the gaming marketplace has come to expect these things as necessities, no amenities. Not only would I want all options, and I agree that having them would help create more sales (and perhaps keep a brisk pace with some word-of-mouth), but even MORE importantly it is important to remember that failure to include certain items might actually drive sales down from where they might have been. Ultimately this does everyone harm because it makes it harder for companies like Matrix to justify supporting games like this (and the consequence would be reduced support for us, fewer games for us, fewer sales for the manufacturers, etc.).

Anyway, as much as I would hate to see EiA delayed indefinitely--I don't want that--I want even more for it to succeed and for people to enjoy it. It would be truly rewarding to be able to come here at some point in the future and find six complete strangers with whom I could set up an internet game and play every week, just like with Strategy First/Paradox and the Europa-based games; a community of EiAers if you will. Now that sounds good to me!

Stepping off of soapbox,
Aaron



Roads -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (8/11/2005 8:02:23 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: AaronTPV

In all honesty, in this day and age of computers there really isn't much reason not to have all of the options ian77 mentioned above (Hotseat, IP/LAN, and PBEM). I certainly don't mean to knock anyone who has been working hard on the coding of this game--I couldn't do it--but the gaming marketplace has come to expect these things as necessities, no amenities.


Bah. On a game design level it is important to distinguish. The concerns that you have for a pbem game are very different than those you have for a LAN game. In LAN you don't want to have most of the people sitting around all the time with nothing to do. Sure players can chat or plot or whatever, but the experience is clearly better if everyone has somehting to do most of the time. For pbem you want the EXACT opposite - each person needs to get as much done before they have to hand off so that the game can progress reasonably quickly.

And that's just one example - there are other things that should be designed differently for pbem vs LAN. Testing will bring out different issues in each mode. Design choices WILL influence whether the game is enjoyable in either mode, and it is always difficult to try to straddle the fence.

I really believe it's best to prioritize one mode or the other. The limitations to having it all were never purely technical - they are mostly design based.



Ursa MAior -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (8/28/2005 5:55:02 PM)

In a big community IMHO real time (ie TCP/IP) gaming could not be a big problem. But I would insstall turn time limitations say 6-8 minutes per turn to keep a reasonable gameplay limit. It could also keep LAN parties fast paced.

Just my 2 cents.




Froonp -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/13/2006 6:06:47 PM)

Finaly, does the Matrix Empire in Arms game have the TCP/IP game feature ?



Froonp -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/13/2006 6:11:27 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Froonp

Finaly, does the Matrix Empire in Arms game have the TCP/IP game feature ?

I'm asking this, because I did not read the whole thread, and having read the "AAR France attacking Austria" I want to buy this game and play it with my friend who lives 1000 km from me and who used to love EiA [:D].



Joisey -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/13/2006 6:18:12 PM)

I'd prefer not to have the release delayed.  I'm not sure how much I would use IP play.  I expect most of my games to be against the AI.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/13/2006 10:41:31 PM)

Hey guys:

You'll propbably find that PBEM is a VERY popular method for EiA players to play when they are thousands of miles away!

Thank you



Froonp -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/13/2006 10:42:31 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

Hey guys:

You'll propbably find that PBEM is a VERY popular method for EiA players to play when they are thousands of miles away!

Thank you

Does this means there is no TCP/IP (Internet or LAN) play ?



YohanTM2 -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/14/2006 1:12:14 AM)

Not in the initial release from what I recall Patrice.

Rob



Marshall Ellis -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/14/2006 1:40:50 AM)

That is correct. No IP in Version 1.00
I want no more delays as well which this WOULD induce.

The problem with IP play is that when you're a thousand miles (several time zones) away then you tend NOT to be in front of the PC at the same time. This is required in IP play and difficult (not impossible) to achieve. PBEM play facilitates local schedules a little better since it is more of a batch process and not all players MUST be in front of the PC at the same time. In fact they could be days different (and usually are LOL).

Thank you



Froonp -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/14/2006 10:16:32 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

That is correct. No IP in Version 1.00
I want no more delays as well which this WOULD induce.

The problem with IP play is that when you're a thousand miles (several time zones) away then you tend NOT to be in front of the PC at the same time. This is required in IP play and difficult (not impossible) to achieve. PBEM play facilitates local schedules a little better since it is more of a batch process and not all players MUST be in front of the PC at the same time. In fact they could be days different (and usually are LOL).

Thank you

I hope there will be at some time TCP/IP (Lan & Internet) play implemented some time in the future, as European players are less impacted by this time shift problem, at least within the same country, and I'm sure it is a point of interest of people buying wargames, especially people that were in their 20s when EiA was published, and who played it to death, and who are in their 40s now, scattered in the country, but still with the will to play EiA if it becomes possible over TCP/IP.



jclauder -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/14/2006 10:46:53 AM)

I have a LAN at my house and we play most games on the LAN. If IP/LAN play is not available, I will be buying one copy. If LAN is with it, the group I play with will be buying about 4 copies. I hope LAN/IP will be in this product if not on the initial release, then as part of the first patch.



Marshall Ellis -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/14/2006 7:09:22 PM)

Hey guys:

Our current plans are to add it at some point in an update.

Thank you



Camile Desmoulins -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/16/2006 9:36:10 PM)

Hi

I think that tis is a game with a huge percent in diplomacy. This work is impossible IP. This is not "another wargame", has a fragile balance. If you can join with 7 or 8 gamers at the same time, in 3 or 4 hours you only could make 4 turns. This is not a battle, is the war. Even the smaller scenaries has 36 turns...

If you want a good EiA game you need time, reflection, and the corps movement will be result of this work. PBM is (for me) the only way.

I feel alone in this question, but this is my opinion

Camille



Monadman -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/16/2006 9:43:57 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Camile Desmoulins

If you want a good EiA game you need time, reflection, and the corps movement will be result of this work. PBM is (for me) the only way.

I feel alone in this question, but this is my opinion



You’re not alone Camille, you’re not alone.

Richard




Marshall Ellis -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/17/2006 12:16:27 AM)

I'm in total agreement with PBEM assessment. I know a lot of you will want IP play and it's easy to want but at the end of the day I predict that few will be able to use it simply because opf the turn lengths. I've put a small timer at the bottom of the main play screen just to keep track of how long one of these games COULD last and some of my solo games are going 4-6+ hours. Now realize that I'm slower than most :-) but add 6 more humans to this equation and you're talking days. Also keep in mind that of my 4-6 hours the AI typically takes less than 30 seconds a phase so it's not the PC taking up the time.

Thank you



JavaJoe -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/21/2006 7:21:28 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monadman


quote:

ORIGINAL: Camile Desmoulins

If you want a good EiA game you need time, reflection, and the corps movement will be result of this work. PBM is (for me) the only way.

I feel alone in this question, but this is my opinion



You’re not alone Camille, you’re not alone.

Richard




PBEM is the way to go....although I'm sure the tcp will make it's way in.




yammahoper -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/21/2006 9:16:57 PM)

The LAN option will be able to incoperate a clock that can be set by the players. This will allow each group to decide just howlong they are ready to allow diplomacy and time for each phase before the computer defaults your "ready" box and moves on to the next phase.

yamma



eg0master -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/24/2006 8:35:41 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Ellis

I'm in total agreement with PBEM assessment. I know a lot of you will want IP play and it's easy to want but at the end of the day I predict that few will be able to use it simply because opf the turn lengths. I've put a small timer at the bottom of the main play screen just to keep track of how long one of these games COULD last and some of my solo games are going 4-6+ hours. Now realize that I'm slower than most :-) but add 6 more humans to this equation and you're talking days. Also keep in mind that of my 4-6 hours the AI typically takes less than 30 seconds a phase so it's not the PC taking up the time.

Thank you


And since such a game will take days to finish it is important to add a "save/resume IP play option", i.e. the initiator of a game can save it and then the players can connect later at another time to continue their IP game.



Camile Desmoulins -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/24/2006 8:51:56 AM)

Do you think that it's easy rejoin 7 or 8 players at time, to play four hours or more?. I could make only one day in a week, for instance, the same rithm that a PBEM game.

I think it's almost impossible. Perphaps one or two times, impossible to finish a scenary. I'm not talking about the great campaign scenary.

And forget the Diplomacy. It's an art, need time to think, many messages to achieve your objetives.

Onlymy opinion, of course.

Camille



Froonp -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/24/2006 9:40:13 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Camile Desmoulins

Do you think that it's easy rejoin 7 or 8 players at time, to play four hours or more?. I could make only one day in a week, for instance, the same rithm that a PBEM game.

I think it's almost impossible. Perphaps one or two times, impossible to finish a scenary. I'm not talking about the great campaign scenary.

And forget the Diplomacy. It's an art, need time to think, many messages to achieve your objetives.

Onlymy opinion, of course.

Camille

You can also be 2-3 IP players and playing the AI for the rest of the countries. I for one will be in that case.



Hoche -> RE: IP Play or NOT to IP Play? That is the question! (10/24/2006 3:25:43 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Camile Desmoulins

Do you think that it's easy rejoin 7 or 8 players at time, to play four hours or more?. I could make only one day in a week, for instance, the same rithm that a PBEM game.

I think it's almost impossible.


How is that different from playing a face-to-face EiA game. I have played several. We meet one night a week and play for about 3-4 hours. It does take months to finish a game but it can and has been done. IP play to me would be about the same except faster (computer calculated battle and sieges would be faster). I have a wireless network at my house if everyone brought a laptop (some could share) we could play it like a FtF game. The only difference would be that instead of staring at a board you would be staring at a monitor.

quote:

And forget the Diplomacy. It's an art, need time to think, many messages to achieve your objetives.

Onlymy opinion, of course.

Camille


If everyone is in the same home you can just talk to each other.


Now if you're talking about web IP play where the players don't actually see each other you might have a point. But I think this can be fixed by everyone agreeing to be online at a specific time each week. People who play MMORGPs do this all the time. And while I agree that diplomacy would be difficult during the actual game time, in between games session players could exchange emails.

While I would prefer PBEM (I have experience with it) to web IP play. But I would be willing to give it a try as web IP play would be faster pace. I haven't seen a PBEM game mover faster that a turn a week. Web IP play should get more turning done each week.



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