Pilums ? (Full Version)

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GreenDestiny -> Pilums ? (5/23/2005 12:56:02 PM)

I got a question, pilums are a one time weapon. But I see units throwing them three times in a turn, command, reaction, and reserve phase. I was thinking after the first throw that should be it and then maybe you can give your units a new order in the next phase. As it is right now a full strength cohort can cause 1,800 casualties with pilums alone in one turn. I know I do this all the time. I'm starting to think that this maybe a player cheat.



e_barkmann -> RE: Pilums ? (5/23/2005 3:35:07 PM)

I've rarely seen pilums get more than about 200-300 casualties per throw. 600 is awfully high! However based on what I've seen of them, it's an essential and IMHO balanced roman weapon. Perhaps the 3 throws represents the unit's entire stock being thrown over the duration of the turn. Didn't legionaires often have 2 pilums (pila? heh never good at me latin)

Cheers Chris



Deride -> RE: Pilums ? (5/23/2005 6:22:26 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny
I got a question, pilums are a one time weapon. But I see units throwing them three times in a turn, command, reaction, and reserve phase.


There are two ways to explain this:

First, the game mechanics way. You are given a command during a turn, and your unit will execute that command for the rest of the turn unless pushed backed or given a reaction/reserve order. Just like missiles, hurling the pilums act the same way. While we did consider a "single throw' idea, beta testing and balance testing showed that having the legions fire 3 times was the best balance.

From a "logical"/historic explaination, Chris (see post above) helps explain some of it. First, you could carry more than one pilum at a time. Also, you can think of the legion throwing the pilums over the entire turn -- not just all hurling at the one exact same moment, but, rather, staged in 3 throws.

Deride



GreenDestiny -> RE: Pilums ? (5/24/2005 1:14:22 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Deride

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreenDestiny
I got a question, pilums are a one time weapon. But I see units throwing them three times in a turn, command, reaction, and reserve phase.


There are two ways to explain this:

First, the game mechanics way. You are given a command during a turn, and your unit will execute that command for the rest of the turn unless pushed backed or given a reaction/reserve order. Just like missiles, hurling the pilums act the same way. While we did consider a "single throw' idea, beta testing and balance testing showed that having the legions fire 3 times was the best balance.

From a "logical"/historic explaination, Chris (see post above) helps explain some of it. First, you could carry more than one pilum at a time. Also, you can think of the legion throwing the pilums over the entire turn -- not just all hurling at the one exact same moment, but, rather, staged in 3 throws.

Deride


Thanks for the reply.
I was thinking of this also because when you put a unit on a reserve order and then throw the pilums in the reserve phase. That's it no more pilums. Which is alright with me. And yes… it would be a very rare thing to inflict 1,800 casualties with pilums alone. But it could happen.




offbase -> RE: Pilums ? (5/25/2005 11:40:09 PM)

It's realistic. Legionairies were issued 2 pilum and I verutum (pila essentially to disable shields and hopefully get some lucky kills, verutum for sheer, closer in killing effect before closing in with the gladius). I once got 600 pts damage using the poison card on the throwing unit, but usually 2-300.



2gaulle -> RE: Pilums ? (6/2/2005 5:48:39 AM)

one think have absolutly no sens, range!
Pilium was a very short weapon, 3 hex is as silly as elephant in Alexander.

quote:

I've rarely seen pilums get more than about 200-300 casualties per throw. 600 is awfully high!


unfortuntly I see that often , but from AI units....

strange also to see a winner unit going in route, specialy if it's a veterant unit[&:]



DaveB -> RE: Pilums ? (9/28/2005 11:49:14 PM)

A legionary carried several pila, and a full stand of legionaries is 3000 men (see other messages on scale regarding this) so a legion stand taking an entire turn to throw is putting 9000 into the air.... several hundred casualties isn't that unfeasible - in actual reports a well timed pilum volley really could inflict severe damage, especially after the design was modified to make them bend after impact. If throwing in reaction or reserve phases then fewer volleys reflect less time to throw them, the unreaslistic bit here is really that unthrown pila are not retained for future use in later turns - it's a bit like you throw one and the others are confiscated, whereas in reality you have them in your hand for the next time the centurion shouts release.
Short range - yes, to a point (pun not intended) - hence the range modifiers that are applied. It's perhaps arguable that the range modifiers should have a rapidly accelerating effect so you (effectively) waste any volley at anything other than optimum range. You should have time, in a turn, to throw 2 or 3 though between the enemy coming into range and needing your gladius and shield for close order sword work.



PDiFolco -> RE: Pilums ? (11/21/2005 4:45:33 PM)

I support 2Gaulle view : they are way too deadly, due to excessive range and modifiers.
Globally in the game all missiles are much too deadly, but pila have the record ! [X(]



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