UBER WITP???? (Full Version)

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Brady -> UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 5:32:58 AM)



A whilke back their was talk of a posabality of doing a UBER WiTP with more of everything and a smaller Hex scale,Somthing tayloerd to PBEM, is this going to hapen? Or were we all just dreaming



jwilkerson -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 5:48:28 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady



A whilke back their was talk of a posabality of doing a UBER WiTP with more of everything and a smaller Hex scale,Somthing tayloerd to PBEM, is this going to hapen? Or were we all just dreaming



Well there are at least 3 ways of doing this - but if you've got a spare million $$ we can get started on one of those options right away !!! Option #2 - awaits developments. It was announced by Erik and Joel, after origins that they would be holding onto the code for a while longer - so that might put paid to what some of us thought might be option 2 - at least for "a while". Option #3 would require putting together a team of "volunteers" ( in this case the volunteer word represents both the pay grade and the hiring process ! ) to cover all required roles and responsibilities and pressing forward in more of an "open source" mode. But there has to be a control point and an organizing element, these primary roles need to be filled first and while I've been involved in discussions about this - I don't currently know of any one or ones who can step forward to fill these roles.






keeferon01 -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 5:58:00 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady



A whilke back their was talk of a posabality of doing a UBER WiTP with more of everything and a smaller Hex scale,Somthing tayloerd to PBEM, is this going to hapen? Or were we all just dreaming


I dunno about pbem my friend I would love to see the AI developed more, not everyone can get a pbem buddy or game going.

Ron



jwilkerson -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 6:02:24 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron James

quote:

ORIGINAL: Brady



A whilke back their was talk of a posabality of doing a UBER WiTP with more of everything and a smaller Hex scale,Somthing tayloerd to PBEM, is this going to hapen? Or were we all just dreaming


I dunno about pbem my friend I would love to see the AI developed more, not everyone can get a pbem buddy or game going.

Ron


So R U volunteering to be on the AI design team !!! ???




Nomad -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 6:20:07 AM)

I will throw my hat in the ring here( if I only had a hat [:D] )

I have some good programming and design work in my past. I would be interested in an open source project.



usersatch -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 8:20:16 AM)

I dont know jack about programming, but I can do research (if that helps).



jwilkerson -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 9:05:01 AM)

Reply to all ( and Nomad and usersatch )

roughly speaking .... for option #3 ( open source ) we need the following

Product Management ( advocate for the customer - whoever is "paying" for the product ) ... 2 of these ... determine features and priorities and approve release of produict.

Program Management ( responsible for delivery of X=the product on Y=the date with Z=the resources ) ... 2 of these

Design Team ( "What are we doing" ... this includes research as well ) we need many, many, many of these ... 2-12 ... maybe more ...

Development ( these are the coders ... need probably only 2 of these ... maybe one more as non-coding technical architect ... ) in a properly designed and managed project .. the coding ... will not be the bottleneck .. the design and testing will be ... I speak from 20+ years of programming experience myself as well as past 12 years as Applications Manager and then IT Director. Development will not be the bottleneck in a properly designed project. It seems to be in our current scenario .. but if properly managed ... development will be less than 10% of total project resources.

Artists ( they do the graphics ) .. need 2 of these ... maybe more ... as this includes planes, ships and map !

Testing ( "did we do it" ... separate team which ensures that development team implemented design team objectives ... minimum 2 persons )

In summary - to do option #3 ( open source ) we need minimum of:

2 Product Managers
2 Program Managers
2 Developers
2 Artists
2 Testers
2-12 Designers ( lets say minimum 7 )

So 17 persons minimum total ... so far ... we have Nomad and usersatch and me ... for 3 ... and this has kind of been the way the previous discussions have gone ... let's see if anyone else jumps in ...




Bodhi -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 9:39:44 AM)

Of course, that's how a project should be done. Probably another case of curiosity killing the cat, but I'm just wondering how the actual team involved in producing WitP compares with the team you'd like to assemble for Uber WitP.



Widell -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 12:10:02 PM)

IŽd throw my hat in if something does happen. I have some experience of Open Source projects and the pro's and con's of working in that fashion. Got limited coding skills (VB, PHP/MySQL and some C) but as said, it all depends on how and what is to be done....

/Robert



Qwerty -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 2:20:58 PM)

I still think Matrix would be better off planning a version of War in the Mediterranean (WITM - Got a nice ring to it!) But what do I know...I'm just a kid [;)]


Who knows...If Matrix/2by3 ever release the source codes, I might just get started on it myself [:'(]



Raverdave -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 4:08:04 PM)

Were 2 By 3 doing a new War in Roosha along the lines of WiTP ????????



keeferon01 -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 4:15:30 PM)



So R U volunteering to be on the AI design team !!! ???



Im sure you would love a history teacher on your design team, we could all sit round and drink some coffee and have real nice chat every morning [:)]



Terminus -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 4:49:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Raverdave

Were 2 By 3 doing a new War in Roosha along the lines of WiTP ????????


Yup! Not based on the engine, thankfully!



Sonny -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 5:25:10 PM)

I have said from the first time I heard of this that I am interested in programming. [8D]



ZekeNY -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 5:34:56 PM)

I have some minor league programming skills (C, C++) that I'd be happy to throw in to the mix on a project like this. I doubt I'd be up to any heavy lifting, but I could probably find the occasional bug and perhaps submit a useful patch or two.



RevRick -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 5:37:07 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron James



So R U volunteering to be on the AI design team !!! ???



Im sure you would love a history teacher on your design team, we could all sit round and drink some coffee and have real nice chat every morning [:)]


Oh, really. Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring. I'm and ex-English Teacher who is now a pastor and a Naval History Nut.

Ought to be some interesting conversations.



Wolfie1 -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 7:15:13 PM)

I'm not great on programming, but you can put me down as a tester if you like.



Iridium -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 7:29:02 PM)

Just get it ported to windows finally...[:D]



jwilkerson -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 8:12:13 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron James



So R U volunteering to be on the AI design team !!! ???



Im sure you would love a history teacher on your design team, we could all sit round and drink some coffee and have real nice chat every morning [:)]


Actually these are exactly the people that need to be on the design team. The design team is responsible for determining what will be implemented, the priorities, doing the research etc.



jwilkerson -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 8:14:53 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Bodhi

Of course, that's how a project should be done. Probably another case of curiosity killing the cat, but I'm just wondering how the actual team involved in producing WitP compares with the team you'd like to assemble for Uber WitP.


To do comparison, I'd have to know something about both objects being compared. I can talk about the one ( the team I'd like to see assembled ) but not the other ( the actual team involved in producing WITP ) as I know little about that team. So not sure I can do comparison.



keeferon01 -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 9:02:36 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron James



So R U volunteering to be on the AI design team !!! ???



Im sure you would love a history teacher on your design team, we could all sit round and drink some coffee and have real nice chat every morning [:)]


Oh, really. Well, I'll throw my hat in the ring. I'm and ex-English Teacher who is now a pastor and a Naval History Nut.

Ought to be some interesting conversations.


yes indeed sir, I would go as far to even break out my best tea from mother England PG Tips a fine brew , Im no real expert on naval history, civil wars is my bag. But Im learning as fast as I can about the pacific theatre [:)]



doktorblood -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 11:54:40 PM)

What are you guys talking about? Buying the source code? How much do they want for it?



Terminus -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 11:57:11 PM)

I think they're making VERY LONG-TERM plans for the day that Matrix/2by3 decides to make the code open-source. If that day ever comes.



Nomad -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 11:59:38 PM)

To be honest, that was NOT my intention. I believe we were talking about a completly new game of WitP.



doktorblood -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/23/2005 11:59:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I think they're making VERY LONG-TERM plans for the day that Matrix/2by3 decides to make the code open-source. If that day ever comes.


Why would they do that?



ZekeNY -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/24/2005 12:04:37 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: doktorblood


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I think they're making VERY LONG-TERM plans for the day that Matrix/2by3 decides to make the code open-source. If that day ever comes.


Why would they do that?



Because Matrix / 2x3 will never make another game using this engine (with the possible exception of the WPO mod, which I don't consider another game, it's more of an expansion / adaptation of WITP), and releasing the code is a good way to help keep the community alive and looking forward to your next game.

John Carmack releases the source code for his games at id software after their commercial life is over. Want the source code to Quake 3 Arena? It's available here: http://www.idsoftware.com/business/techdownloads/

Edit to add: But like Nomad, I thought that "option 3" involved starting from scratch with an open-source project to create a next-generation game from the ground up.



Terminus -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/24/2005 12:10:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

To be honest, that was NOT my intention. I believe we were talking about a completly new game of WitP.


Okay, then I misunderstood something. Mea culpa! [:)]



Nomad -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/24/2005 12:12:02 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

To be honest, that was NOT my intention. I believe we were talking about a completly new game of WitP.


Okay, then I misunderstood something. Mea culpa! [:)]


Actually, I went back and looked and I was not really clear in what I said earlier. I was 'voting' for option 3.



tc464 -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/24/2005 12:58:04 AM)

I would hop in on this. I don't know squat about C# or C++ (except how to spell them) but I can hold my own with VB.

I do own Robohelp 3X and Acrobat 6.0, and would be happy to take a crack at the help files/user documentation. Also have a couple DVD's of ordnance publications from WW1 to Vietnam era, and 20+ years defuzing those infernal machines, so I can help with any research. Lastly, I have Installshield 5 and TrueUpdate 1.4, which would take care of setups and updates. Might even be able to come up with a couple hundred Mb of free web space on an Apache server, with a little advance notice.

Just my .02



jwilkerson -> RE: UBER WITP???? (7/24/2005 2:11:38 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nomad

To be honest, that was NOT my intention. I believe we were talking about a completly new game of WitP.


Okay, then I misunderstood something. Mea culpa! [:)]


Actually, I went back and looked and I was not really clear in what I said earlier. I was 'voting' for option 3.



Since I think I was the one that came up with the three options - I'll try to clarify a little.

Option #1 would be someone funding a whole new company / effort to build a whole new game - but unless one of us wins the lottery, we can probably write this one off.

Option #2 would be someone getting the source code and trying to leverage that into WITP II ... this is a possibility that might happen one day ... but it didn't happen at or immediately after Origins as had been discussed as a possibilty.

Option #3 would be starting over / whole new game - but with a volunteer work force.

In a day or so - after this thread burns out, I'll send PMs to those who are interested and we'd probably need to take this discussion off-line if it is going to go any farther. I'd probably set up a separate forum ( on another site ) for this .. forum for public access, wiki for actual team. But again, I'll send PMs to those indicating interest in a day or so.




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