RE: When?

RE: When? (Full Version)

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michaelbaldur -> RE: When? (5/6/2009 8:05:47 PM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: ItBurns

"Optional Rules
I have moved about a dozen optional rules into a list of tasks that are likely to not get done until post release. It is not that I do not like these optional rules, or have anything against them, other than they require me to spend time on them to make them functional."

If its not too much of a pain could you post a list of those that won't be making the initial release?

Here is where I stood on the optional rules as on the end of April. Those with the xxx are the ones I have tentatively earmarked for finishing post initial release.
===

  	Divisions: Boolean;                    // 0   #2 s. 22.4.1           Check-1
    Artillery: Boolean;                    // 1   #3 s. 22.4.2           DONE
    Fortifications: Boolean;               // 2   #5 s. 22.4.9           DONE
    SupplyUnits: Boolean;                  // 3   #6 s. 22.4.10          DONE
    CombatEngineers: Boolean;              // 4   #7 s. 22.4.1 (combat)  DONE
    FlyingBoats: Boolean;                  // 5   #8 s. 2.3.1            DONE
    Territorials: Boolean;                 // 6   #10 s. 22.4.5          DONE
    LimitedOverseasSupply: Boolean;        // 7   #11 s. 2.4.2           DONE
    LimitedSupplyAcrossStraits: Boolean;   // 8   #12 s. 2.4.2, 11.10    DONE
  	HQSupport: Boolean;                    // 9   #13 s. 11.16.2         DONE
    EmergencyHQSupply: Boolean;            // 10  #13 s. 2.4.3           DONE
    SyntheticOilPlants: Boolean;           // 11  #14 s. 22.4.11         DONE
    OffCityReinforcement: Boolean;         // 12  #15 s. 4.2             DONE
  	RecruitmentLimits: Boolean;            // 13  #16 s. 4.2             New-2   xxx
    HQMovement: Boolean;                   // 14  #17 s. 11.11.2         DONE
  	BottomedShips: Boolean;                // 15  #18 s. 11.2            DONE
  	InThePresenceOfTheEnemy: Boolean;      // 16  #19 s. 11.4.2          DONE
  	SurprisedZOCs: Boolean;                // 17  #20 s. 2.2             New-2   xxx
    BounceCombat: Boolean;                 // 18  #22 s. 14.3.3          New-6   xxx
  	VWeapons: Boolean;                     // 19  #23 s. 11.7.1          New-1   xxx
  	AtomicBombs: Boolean;                  // 20  #23 s. 11.7.1          New-1   xxx
  	Frogmen: Boolean;                      // 21  #24 s. 22.4.3          New-3   xxx
  	SCSTransport: Boolean;                 // 22  #25 s. 11.4.5          Check-1
  	AmphibiousRules: Boolean;              // 23  #26 s. 22.4.12         Check-1
  	OptionalCVSearching: Boolean;          // 24  #27 s. 11.5.5          Check-1
  	Pilots: Boolean;                       // 25  #28 s. 11.2, 14.6      DONE
    FoodInFlames: Boolean;                 // 26  #29 s. 13.6.1          New-2
    FactoryConstruction: Boolean;          // 27  #30 s. 22.2, 13.6.8    Check-1
  	SavingResources: Boolean;              // 28  #31 s. 13.5.1          Bugs-1
  	CarpetBombing: Boolean;                // 29  #32 s. 11.8            DONE
  	TankBusters: Boolean;                  // 30  #33 s. 11.9            DONE
  	MotorizedMovementRates: Boolean;       // 31  #34 s. 11.11.2         DONE
  	BomberATR: Boolean;                    // 32  #35 s. 11.12           DONE
    LargeATR: Boolean;                     // 33  #36 s. 11.12           DONE
    RailwayMovement: Boolean;              // 34  #37 s. 11.11.2         DONE
    DefensiveShoreBombardment: Boolean;    // 35  #38 s. 11.16.2         DONE
    BlitzBonus: Boolean;                   // 36  #39 s. 11.16.1         DONE
  	ChineseAttackWeakness: Boolean;        // 37  #40 s. 11.16.5         DONE
  	FractionalOdds: Boolean;               // 38  #41 s. 11.16.5         DONE
    AlliedCombatFriction: Boolean;         // 39  #42 s. 11.16.5         DONE
    TwoD10LandCRT: Boolean;                // 40  #43 s. 11.16.6         DONE
  	ExtendedAircraftRebasing: Boolean;     // 41  #44 s. 11.17           DONE
    VariableReorganizationCosts: Boolean;  // 42  #45 s. 13.6.3          DONE
    Partisans: Boolean;                    // 43  #46 s. 13.1            DONE
    IsolatedReorganizationLimits: Boolean; // 44  #47 s. 13.5            DONE
  	OilRules: Boolean;                     // 45  #48 s. 13.5.1          Check-1
    HitlersWar: Boolean;                   // 46  #49 s. 13.3.2          New-2   xxx
  	USSRJapanCompulsoryPeace: Boolean;     // 47  #50 s. 13.7.3          New-2
  	EnrouteInterception: Boolean;          // 48  #51 s. 14.2.1          New-6   xxx
  	NightMissions: Boolean;                // 49  #52 s. 14.2.3, 22.4.2  DONE
  	TwinEnginedFighters: Boolean;          // 50  #53 s. 14.3.2          DONE
  	FighterBombers: Boolean;               // 51  #54 s. 14.3.2          DONE
  	OutclassedFighters: Boolean;           // 52  #55 s. 14.3.2          DONE
    CarrierPlanes: Boolean;                // 53  #56 s. 4.2, 14,4,1     DONE
  	RoughSeas: Boolean;                    // 54  #75 s 22.4.6           New-1
  	LimitedAircraftInterception: Boolean;  // 55  #57 s. 14.2.1          New-2   xxx
  	Internment: Boolean;                   // 56  #58 s. 19.1            New-2
  	FlyingBombs: Boolean;                  // 57  #59 s. 14.7            New-2
  	Kamikazes: Boolean;                    // 58  #60 s. 14.8            New-2
  	Offensive: Boolean;                    // 59  #61 s. 16              Check-1
    Ukraine: Boolean;                      // 60  #62 s. 19.12           New-4   xxx
  	Intelligence: Boolean;                 // 61  #63 s. 22.1            New-15  xxx
  	JapaneseCommandConflict: Boolean;      // 62  #64 s. 22.3            New-1   xxx
  	SkiTroops: Boolean;                    // 63  #65 s. 22.4.1          DONE
  	Queens: Boolean;                       // 64  #66 s. 22.4.4          DONE
    CityBasedVolunteers: Boolean;          // 65  #67 s. 22.4.8          Mods-2
  	Siberians: Boolean;                    // 66  #68 s. 22.4.7          DONE
  	NavalSupplyUnits: Boolean;             // 67  #69 s. 22.4.13         DONE
    GuardsBannerArmies: Boolean;           // 68  #70 s. 22.4.14         New-2
    ChineseWarlords: Boolean;              // 69  #71 s. 22.4.15         New-1
    PartisanHQs: Boolean;                  // 70  #72 s. 22.4.16         New-2   xxx
    CruisersInFlames: Boolean;             // 71  #75 s. 22.4.6          DONE
    ConvoysInFlames: Boolean;              // 72  #76 s. 22.4.6          New-8
    OilTankers: Boolean;                   // 73  #76 s. 22.4.6          New-4   xxx
    ConstructionEngineers: Boolean;        // 74  #7 s. 22.4.1           DONE
    ScrapUnits: Boolean;                   // 75  MWIF addition          DONE
    AddChineseCities: Boolean;             // 76  MWIF addition          DONE
    UnlimitedBreakdown: Boolean;           // 77  MWIF addition          Mods-6
    ExtendedGame: Boolean;                 // 78  MWIF addition          Mods-2
    UnrestrictedSetup: Boolean;            // 79  MWIF 2 addition        Dropped.
    NavalOffensiveChit: Boolean;           // 80  #61 s. 16              New-2

why is Surprised ZOC a option ????? it is not a option in the rules ... it is a importent part of the game ...

lomyrin -> RE: When? (5/6/2009 8:12:09 PM)
I believe this is for Major/Minor Power units not having any ZOC in the surprise impulse. That is a pretty drastic advantage for the attacker. lars

michaelbaldur -> RE: When? (5/6/2009 8:29:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: lomyrin I believe this is for Major/Minor Power units not having any ZOC in the surprise impulse. That is a pretty drastic advantage for the attacker. lars yes and !! ..... it is part of the rules .. who made it a option ?????

micheljq -> RE: When? (5/6/2009 8:30:48 PM)
I think it is optional rule 20 in RAW where surprised units do not exert a ZOC on the impulse of surprise, quite optional rule yes and it can be very powerful.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (5/6/2009 8:37:42 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur quote: ORIGINAL: lomyrin I believe this is for Major/Minor Power units not having any ZOC in the surprise impulse. That is a pretty drastic advantage for the attacker. lars yes and !! ..... it is part of the rules .. who made it a option ????? WIF uses the word Surprise in 3 instances: 1 - Surprise Points: awarded during naval combat. 2 - Surprise Impulse: occurs when a major power declares war on a country (major or minor). 3 - Surprise ZOCs: optional rule that supplements the effect of #2. Setting this optional rule to false does not affect the other rules related to #2.

composer99 -> RE: When? (5/6/2009 9:42:16 PM)
Ghost of WiF past, michaelbaldur? Units losing their ZoCs while surprised has been an optional rule for several years now. [:)]

Froonp -> RE: When? (5/6/2009 10:45:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur why is Surprised ZOC a option ????? it is not a option in the rules ... it is a importent part of the game ... Michael, you must be confusing this with something else. This IS an option, and always was. From RAW 2.2 : **************************************** ZOCs don�t extend: � into, or out of, off-map hexes; or � into the notional hexes represented by hex-dots; or � across alpine hexsides; or � across all-sea hexsides; or � across lake (except when frozen), or straits, hexsides; or � into a hex controlled by a major power or minor country, on the other side that the unit is not at war with; or � Option 20: (Surprised ZoCs) from a surprised unit. ****************************************

michaelbaldur -> RE: When? (5/6/2009 11:03:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp quote: ORIGINAL: michaelbaldur why is Surprised ZOC a option ????? it is not a option in the rules ... it is a importent part of the game ... Michael, you must be confusing this with something else. This IS an option, and always was. From RAW 2.2 : **************************************** ZOCs don�t extend: � into, or out of, off-map hexes; or � into the notional hexes represented by hex-dots; or � across alpine hexsides; or � across all-sea hexsides; or � across lake (except when frozen), or straits, hexsides; or � into a hex controlled by a major power or minor country, on the other side that the unit is not at war with; or � Option 20: (Surprised ZoCs) from a surprised unit. **************************************** my bad [&o] ..... my hard copy rules are getting old ..... you are right ...

Joseignacio -> RE: When? (5/8/2009 2:34:17 PM)
Hello. I have been following this post for more than a year. I didn't check any other of the posts because I didn't want to spend too much time on a project that I was not sure would go anywhere, although I could see Shannon has focused it with a extreme professionality, more by far than the usual developers. Now, I am overcomed with joy that I will�finally be able to play my favourite game in computer an by PBEM. Unfortunately i am a bit old fashioned and consider most of the recent changes in the rules a serious setback, so for me, the optional rules will be basic, to try to preserve the original purity of the game. I will be coming more frequently to this forum and if I can do something (e.g.: a possible translation collaboration - to spanish, muy native tongue, if planned) please, tell me. [sm=love0059.gif] P.D.: I would be happy if someone can tell me where can I select my own WIF counter toupload it as my avatar. I googled it and all I could find by now is a picture of countersheets but no individual counters like yours, guys. [;)]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (5/8/2009 5:40:38 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Joseignacio Hello. I have been following this post for more than a year. I didn't check any other of the posts because I didn't want to spend too much time on a project that I was not sure would go anywhere, although I could see Shannon has focused it with a extreme professionality, more by far than the usual developers. Now, I am overcomed with joy that I will�finally be able to play my favourite game in computer an by PBEM. Unfortunately i am a bit old fashioned and consider most of the recent changes in the rules a serious setback, so for me, the optional rules will be basic, to try to preserve the original purity of the game. I will be coming more frequently to this forum and if I can do something (e.g.: a possible translation collaboration - to spanish, muy native tongue, if planned) please, tell me. [sm=love0059.gif] P.D.: I would be happy if someone can tell me where can I select my own WIF counter toupload it as my avatar. I googled it and all I could find by now is a picture of countersheets but no individual counters like yours, guys. [;)] Welcome to the forum.[:)] Patrice has been kind enough to render screen shots of counters for forum members to use as avatars.[&o][&o] If you select a counter that you would like to use as an avatar and send him a PM (personal message to Froonp), he should be able to accommodate your request.

Petracelli69 -> RE: When? (5/8/2009 10:37:54 PM)
Keep up the good work Steve really looking forward to it's release Phil

AgentComet -> RE: When? (5/9/2009 12:57:31 PM)
Any idea on a release price yet? Will there be an option for a boxed copy as well as digital download? Thanks for all the hard work over the years, finally having to option to play WiF with a hectic schedule is something I look forward to! [&o]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: When? (5/9/2009 5:55:43 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: AgentComet Any idea on a release price yet? Will there be an option for a boxed copy as well as digital download? Thanks for all the hard work over the years, finally having to option to play WiF with a hectic schedule is something I look forward to! [&o] Downloadable or boxed. Matrix sets the price, not me, but I believe over the years they have given some hints of what it will be.

Joseignacio -> RE: When? (5/10/2009 11:35:10 AM)
Thanks a lot, I will now send a PM. [sm=Tank-fahr09.gif] Edit: yeeepieeee [&o]

marklv -> RE: When? (5/12/2009 10:54:03 PM)
Given all the work that Mr O'Keets has put into the game, it should be priced at $500 a copy. And I ain't joking.

Zorachus99 -> RE: When? (5/13/2009 1:51:27 AM)
I used to pay $200 a year for a new set of counters every year (usually because of lost/eaten/soaked/ripped ones).

micheljq -> RE: When? (5/13/2009 2:13:15 PM)
The worst I ever paid for a PC game was $90. I do not think I can afford more. Companies like Blizzard spend millions of $$ and years on the development of a PC game, but they sell it 49.99$ nevertheless. If MWiF's price is too high, the only persons who will buy it will be the ones on this forum I fear.

macgregor -> RE: When? (5/13/2009 4:53:47 PM)
Mark -you're nuts if u think $500/game and Zory -what kind of counters cost $200. Weighted hand-painted bronze? I mean really.

composer99 -> RE: When? (5/13/2009 6:54:17 PM)
The complete set of WiF counter-sheets runs to $189 USD on ADG's website. That's for WiF &�all expansion kits and add-on games, mind. But weighted hand-painted bronze counters? That would be nice. Edit: The set of countersheets above runs to 6,880 counters according to ADG.

SamuraiProgrmmr -> RE: When? (5/13/2009 6:57:25 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 But weighted hand-painted bronze counters? That would be nice. At least that way, the cat wouldn't eat them...... Or if it did, they might be retrievable [sm=vomit-smiley-020.gif]

macgregor -> RE: When? (5/13/2009 7:13:37 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 The complete set of WiF counter-sheets runs to $189 USD on ADG's website. That's for WiF &�all expansion kits and add-on games, mind. But weighted hand-painted bronze counters? That would be nice. Edit: The set of countersheets above runs to 6,880 counters according to ADG. I though when they got to 'Messkits in Flames' that they had stopped. That's an awful lot of counters.

Zorachus99 -> RE: When? (5/13/2009 7:58:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: macgregor quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 The complete set of WiF counter-sheets runs to $189 USD on ADG's website. That's for WiF &�all expansion kits and add-on games, mind. But weighted hand-painted bronze counters? That would be nice. I though when they got to 'Messkits in Flames' that they had stopped. That's an awful lot of counters. At least there's still no pasta ration! [sm=00000055.gif]

Tanan Fujiwara -> RE: When? (5/13/2009 8:00:11 PM)
Given a fair price for a quality product, I could care less how much the game costs, but obviously if you sell a game for a price above the rest of the games in the business, then that should mean that you are quite confident with your product and it should be a quality product that stand out among the rest.

HansHafen -> RE: When? (5/14/2009 2:47:03 AM)
Even at $200.00 US Dollars, the price per hour of entertainment will be miniscule! [:)]

Joseignacio -> RE: When? (5/14/2009 11:41:42 AM)
To be true, I wouldn't care if the price was well above the usual computer game prices, due to it's unique caracteristics, but some of the amounts spoken about seem a little bit unreasonable. Anyway, no doubt Matrix will sell at a reasonable price because we fans are not the only public (or it would be ruinous) and the rest of the people wouldn't pay such amounts.

obermeister -> RE: When? (5/14/2009 7:56:30 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Zorachus99 quote: ORIGINAL: macgregor quote: ORIGINAL: composer99 The complete set of WiF counter-sheets runs to $189 USD on ADG's website. That's for WiF &�all expansion kits and add-on games, mind. But weighted hand-painted bronze counters? That would be nice. I though when they got to 'Messkits in Flames' that they had stopped. That's an awful lot of counters. At least there's still no pasta ration! [sm=00000055.gif] You laugh, but there is an option called "Food in Flames". Although thankfully it's just an optional rule and doesn't involve a stack of counters.

composer99 -> RE: When? (5/14/2009 8:16:09 PM)
A more accurate name for "Food in Flames" would probably be "Rare Minerals in Flames", but it just doesn't have the same catchiness...

HansHafen -> RE: When? (5/14/2009 9:49:23 PM)
I don't see this game selling too much beyond the WIF community in any case. It will penetrate the hardcore boardgame demographic to some degree because it is a faithful and good port of a strategic level WWII boardgame, but I don't see RTS, MMO or FPS gamers picking this one up even at $49.99. I believe this is a burden that we Wiffers will have to bear almost totallly.

warspite1 -> RE: When? (5/14/2009 10:18:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: HansHafen I don't see this game selling too much beyond the WIF community in any case. It will penetrate the hardcore boardgame demographic to some degree because it is a faithful and good port of a strategic level WWII boardgame, but I don't see RTS, MMO or FPS gamers picking this one up even at $49.99. I believe this is a burden that we Wiffers will have to bear almost totallly. Warspite1 I would have to disagree. WIF is the best WWII game. Ever. If the computer version is good enough, it will attract new players. If its not, then yes, Matrix will be hard pressed to get the product out into the wider gaming community; and if its EIA...... Personally, my money is on Steve delivering the goods [&o] and WIF getting a whole new fan base. Now with a young family and all that goes with it, I can no longer lose whole weekends of my life playing the boardgame like I did 15 years ago and so I await the computer version as much as anybody. Frankly, I can`t wait.

Greywolf -> RE: When? (5/15/2009 8:10:47 AM)
I think the game could impact the computer wargaming community, some of them not being WiF player. The game wont appeal at all to the vast majority of the other gamers : it is dry 2D graphics (even Paradox had to go 3D with Europa Universalis, to my great dismay by the may and alienating quite some fan base), turn-by-turn, long and need to understand nearly 80 pages of rules, even if the computer manage some of them. Let it be clear: its rating on many general newsgaming papers and site will be abysmall (splg?) regardless of the game real quality. That is the way all complexe strategical game with no 3D and real time action go. For them Strategy mean RTS, even if a RTS is not really a Strategy game but a Logistic and Tactics game as we all know. The other trouble is that the previous release of a Matrix game adaptation of a ADG boardgame was very very poorly received, commented and bashed. I know quite a lot of players with burned fingers syndroma about EiA that wont jump on MWiF on fear it suffer from the same bugs and poor AI problems. And no amount of fixing of EiA after release can cure that. As other comments there is a community of online WiF players using cyberboard, Vassal and Zuntzu, and Wiffedit and other PBEM or NETPLAY game support. Thoses players will be interested with MWiF but wont be motivated to pay a lot for something that just do a bit more than their regular programs do and change quite some things too. Thoses people wont care about the AI as they want to play PBEM or NETPLAY only. They could be turned back by the changes MWiF introduce : new map, infinite division, no POLIF, no house-rules because that is the computer that set the rules so you can just adjust the option set but not the way you usually tweak the options, a graphical choice that is nice but not necessarily better than the original nor better looking than the high quality scan of some cyberbox. Thoses guys want a computer to play regular WiF on or with, not something different, and the closest it feel and look to real WiF the better. All considered I think a release price in the WiTP range is what to be expected, but it wont sold a lot of units. Cutting the price down to 49$ would sold a bit more but not that much. MWiF is already a niche project. I think they have quite a clear idea of the number they will sold. If it is sold above 60$ I think I will probably pass on and wait for it to hit to sold-out or second hand bin. There is too many thing you can do or buy nowadays and a lot of high quality games for a lot cheaper than that. MWiF will appeal to the hard-core wargamers but it is not the only that will appeal to them and we are in a time of choice.

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