Historical Details, Animation, and Sound

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Shannon V. OKeets -> Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/26/2005 7:58:56 PM)
Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (August 26, 2005) I really need your help on this. Yeah, I’m talking to you, the guy who is thinking about buying MWIF when it is done. I do not have much in the way of ideas about what and where to add historical detail, animation, and sound to MWIF. You see, I am from the old school of board games where historical detail means sitting down with a book and reading for hours at a time, maybe looking at some blank and white photographs and a colorful artistic rendering or two. Animation was the disgusting look my opponent got on his face when he rolled the dice right for his 1 in 36 attack. Sound was the clatter of dice on the tabletop or the clink of ice in a glass. I suspect that David Heath of Matrix Games has something different in mind. In my phone conversation with Dave yesterday he said he thought MWIF should be “plush”. An interesting word that; it carries a lot of connotations in its 5 little letters. When I told my wife, her comment was: “It’s always good to set the bar high.” That probably explains a lot about the last 34 years I have been married to her. So, putting 2 and 2 together, my marching orders are to add historical detail, animation, and sound such that MWIF will be considered ‘plush’ by you. I have a couple of ideas but they seem somewhat inadequate. I might add here that most of the work on historical detail will be done by people at Matrix Games who are good at this stuff, the animation will be done by Rob Armstrong, who does it for a living, and the sound by a guy that Dave feels has a future in Hollywood if he wants to pursue it. My responsibility in all this is to decide what goes where, when, and how. Historical Detail In the discussion about the units, some forum members suggested that when a unit is clicked on, a large panel could appear that provides historical details about the unit. This could include photographs, text, and perhaps a short description on the history of the unit during the war. I could set this up so it could be modifiable by the players. My thought being that players could exchange files on units (or someone could create a library of same) which could be used to replace the ones that come with MWIF when it ships. I could also provide a link to the record logs of previous games, and report on what the unit did in those games. ADG always gives player notes for each scenario that indirectly provide historical detail. I intend to include all of those in MWIF. What else would you like to see? And where should it be added? Animation Bugs Bunny. I’m sorry, but that’s what comes to my mind first whenever I think about this. My second thought is always the hand-eye coordination games (first person shooter) where weapons fire and things blow up. I entertain serious doubt that either of these would be acceptable to Dave. I do have one idea that I think will provide MWIF with some animation. In the discussion on after action reports and the use of the game record log, the suggestion arose of being able to replay a game from start to finish with the viewer controlling the replay. Different controls would be provided for the speed of the replay, what is included (e.g., skip all the production stuff, or only show me the land war in Russia), and point of view (zoom in or out during the replay). I can expand on this rather easily so that: (1) the replay can be started and stopped at any point in the game (e.g., just the summer offensive of 1944), (2) the game can be played in reverse, from finish to start, and (3) an individual turn can be replayed - during a game. What I have in mind for the last is giving the player the ability to have all his orders for the turn ‘replayed’ on the screen before he commits to them. This would primarily apply for reviewing all your land moves and the attacks that you intend to make. It would let you do one last check before clicking on the OK button. Still, there should be more animation. Sound When I listen to the ideas about sound inside my head, all I hear is silence. This isn’t enough to make MWIF plush. To quote some Brit from the 1960's: “Help me if you can, ...”.

Froonp -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/26/2005 10:40:24 PM)
Making MWiF plush [:D] I'm not especially good at that, but I've seen that some guys at Matrix are. It should start by making MWiF somehow WWII looking, either from the German, Western Allies, Japanese or Russian point of view. quote: Historical Detail In the discussion about the units, some forum members suggested that when a unit is clicked on, a large panel could appear that provides historical details about the unit. This could include photographs, text, and perhaps a short description on the history of the unit during the war. I'm not convincted that each unit name apprearing in the WiF has an historical counterpart. Remeber that in th elong distant past, WiF units had no names, and then names were added to add historical detail [;)] quote: I could set this up so it could be modifiable by the players. My thought being that players could exchange files on units (or someone could create a library of same) which could be used to replace the ones that come with MWIF when it ships. I could also provide a link to the record logs of previous games, and report on what the unit did in those games. ADG always gives player notes for each scenario that indirectly provide historical detail. I intend to include all of those in MWIF. What else would you like to see? And where should it be added? Animation Bugs Bunny. I’m sorry, but that’s what comes to my mind first whenever I think about this. My second thought is always the hand-eye coordination games (first person shooter) where weapons fire and things blow up. I entertain serious doubt that either of these would be acceptable to Dave. I do have one idea that I think will provide MWIF with some animation. All I can think of for the moment is footages. Footages of Stukas diving all sirens hurling, of SBD diving on ships with their canopy opened, on ships evading bombs admist colums of water, of Kates surrounded by AA fire in the near vicinity of an USN ship, an A-Bomb exploding [:(], tanks moving across the steppe, troops manning machin guns, cavalry running in the wild with their pennants floating above them, ships docked for repair, boxes of B-17 dropping their load all at the same time, german heavy fighter firing all weapons at US bombers, the traditionnal US flag at Iwo Jima, landing crafts opening and troops pouring out of ite, tc.... quote: In the discussion on after action reports and the use of the game record log, the suggestion arose of being able to replay a game from start to finish with the viewer controlling the replay. Different controls would be provided for the speed of the replay, what is included (e.g., skip all the production stuff, or only show me the land war in Russia), and point of view (zoom in or out during the replay). I can expand on this rather easily so that: (1) the replay can be started and stopped at any point in the game (e.g., just the summer offensive of 1944), (2) the game can be played in reverse, from finish to start, and (3) an individual turn can be replayed - during a game. What I have in mind for the last is giving the player the ability to have all his orders for the turn ‘replayed’ on the screen before he commits to them. This would primarily apply for reviewing all your land moves and the attacks that you intend to make. It would let you do one last check before clicking on the OK button. Still, there should be more animation. Sound When I listen to the ideas about sound inside my head, all I hear is silence. Stukas diving when Ground Striking, diesel rumbling or the noise of the tracks when tanks move, noises of trucks when MOT units move, noise of boots when leg troops move, inline or radial engine noise for the planes, noise of "go go go" when paratroopers jump [:D], noise of the relevant type of gun (or approaching) when AA fires, when ART bombs, etc... I'm sure it is not enough, but one has to say these at start.

c92nichj -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 12:01:50 AM)
I like in game short movies, they dont have to be long, just a small little movie clips enhances the game experience, black and white would be fine (I loved the movies in Civ II each time you built a wonder). Examples of places where small movies can be added. - At each USSR demands of borderlands or pact areas. - At each declaration of war. - At change of control of a victory city(say that the russians capture istanbul for example a picture of Haga sofia with a communist flag in the background could be showed) - when a country surrenders. - First portstrike by Japan on US - Strategic bombing of London. - First wallied invasion of mainland Europe after french surrender. [image]local://upfiles/15172/B583F7196BB74A43A16657C3B226CEB8.jpg[/image]

SeaMonkey -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 7:39:58 AM)
Plush...yeah , what they said, but luxurious, something radiating overwhelming comfort, to draw you in and compell you to never leave. History...that's the games we play. A short take of the real history to compare to the new(recent)more expansive history from our game actions. Unit notations of past(recent in game) conflicts(victories & defeats), equipment upgrades, replacements, to&es, commanders, unit patches and insignias. Animations...yeah this could be good, old newsreel (movietones), Victory at Sea, as well as the appropriate footage of the battle actions taking place, sounds of weapons, equipment movements and historical radio reports and clips of newspaper headlines. And during those more subliminal periods (planning) the appropriate music from the era for the side that is being played, Big Band Music, classical German marches and Russian composers, etc. Propaganda speeches,(Tokyo Rose, Goebbels radio addresses, fireside chats, etc.) corresponding to the ingame date to keep you oriented. The reactions of the crowds/masses, air raid sirens, muffled artillery explosions, small arms, with (on screen)peripheral flashes of light signifying the fight going on all around us. All kinds of little visual representations and sounds to challenge your attention to the game mechanics and invite you into mistakes, like the Sirens to Ulysses' ears. Now I'm not sure if there is any intelligence gathering or espionage in MWiF, but perhaps a verbal/visual or written report(historical) from time to time, not necessarily factual, generated by triggers from your or your opponents' moves. All in black and white, like the era, and the sound characteristics as well. yeah that's the ticket, take us back in the time machine, we don't just want to replay the conflict, we want to live it.....without getting hurt , of course.[:D]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 9:37:13 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: SeaMonkey Plush...yeah , what they said, but luxurious, something radiating overwhelming comfort, to draw you in and compell you to never leave. History...that's the games we play. A short take of the real history to compare to the new(recent)more expansive history from our game actions. Unit notations of past(recent in game) conflicts(victories & defeats), equipment upgrades, replacements, to&es, commanders, unit patches and insignias. Animations...yeah this could be good, old newsreel (movietones), Victory at Sea, as well as the appropriate footage of the battle actions taking place, sounds of weapons, equipment movements and historical radio reports and clips of newspaper headlines. And during those more subliminal periods (planning) the appropriate music from the era for the side that is being played, Big Band Music, classical German marches and Russian composers, etc. Propaganda speeches,(Tokyo Rose, Goebbels radio addresses, fireside chats, etc.) corresponding to the ingame date to keep you oriented. The reactions of the crowds/masses, air raid sirens, muffled artillery explosions, small arms, with (on screen)peripheral flashes of light signifying the fight going on all around us. All kinds of little visual representations and sounds to challenge your attention to the game mechanics and invite you into mistakes, like the Sirens to Ulysses' ears. Now I'm not sure if there is any intelligence gathering or espionage in MWiF, but perhaps a verbal/visual or written report(historical) from time to time, not necessarily factual, generated by triggers from your or your opponents' moves. All in black and white, like the era, and the sound characteristics as well. yeah that's the ticket, take us back in the time machine, we don't just want to replay the conflict, we want to live it.....without getting hurt , of course.[:D] You guys (Froonp, c92nichj, and SeaMonkey) are all so much better at this than I am. I am taking copious notes and I'll try to do my usual schtick of organizing a lot of good ideas into an overall statement of work (task list) for other people (at Matrix) to do. These are all excellent suggestions. If other people have more, I would love to hear them.

Greyshaft -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 2:54:23 PM)
"...I'm feeling down... and I do appreciate you being round" <uh... sorry... I'm from the fifties myself.> I hate the repetition of some games which play the same animations/video clips umpteen times in a game. I want information dammit! I don't need some game designer's idea of video entertainment <oops... there goes my name off the beta list> OK... I agree with the need for a leetle something extra when you right click on an aircraft/naval counter. I vote for an even split between game information <this is one of 'x' Sopwith Camels in the game> and historical information < The Sopwith Camel entered service in May 1917 and was armed with twin vickers machine guns. It was a b@stard of a plane to fly and the average life expectancy of an English pilot was little more than two weeks. It has been claimed that the Sopwith Camel was responsible for shooting down 1,294 enemy planes during the war. > Dibs on the aircraft histories. I'll get up a para or two on each air unit counter and see if its useful. It's a starting point if nothing else. *Steve, if you have better idea for collating game info then then tell me before I waste too much time on this*

c92nichj -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 3:15:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greyshaft I hate the repetition of some games which play the same animations/video clips umpteen times in a game. I want information dammit! I don't need some game designer's idea of video entertainment <oops... there goes my name off the beta list> I agree with greyshaft that the same videoclip/picture cannot be played to many times, then it is just annoying, it have to be a unique clip for each occasion and shouldn't be played more than once maybe twice during a campaign, that was the beauty with the wonder movies in Civ II, in each game you could only build each wonder once, hence only see the movie once, as it would be unlikely that you built all of the wonders the next time you played the game and built a different set of wonders you would see a differnet set of movies.

Froonp -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 3:33:09 PM)
Should be possible to turn-off videos & sound effects. As for the historic informations Greyshaft talked about, I agree with him that there should be too. But if there is historic information about every aspect WiF FE covers, this risk to turn into a WWII cyclopedia.

Froonp -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 3:46:18 PM)
Oh, I just got an idea. One thing that I would like MWiF to contain is a WWII timeline. Best if that timeline can be filtered by theaters. For example, from old SSI games : **************************************** World War II (39-45) - General Timeline (from “Clash of Steel” - SSI) Date Place Event Sep/ Oct 39 Poland Germans invade Sep/ Oct 39 Warsaw Germans capture Sep/ Oct 39 Poland Surrenders Nov/ Dec 39 Finland Russia invades Jan/ Feb 40 Finland Surrenders Mar/ Apr 40 Denmark Germans invade Mar/ Apr 40 Denmark Surrenders Mar/ Apr 40 Norway Germans invade Mar/ Apr 40 Oslo Germans capture Mar/ Apr 40 Norway Surrenders May/ Jun 40 Norway Allies land at Narvik May/ Jun 40 Norway Allies withdraw troops May/ Jun 40 Netherlands Germany invades May/ Jun 40 Belgium Germany invades May/ Jun 40 France Germany invades May/ Jun 40 Antwerp Germany captures May/ Jun 40 Paris Germany captures May/ Jun 40 Brest Germany captures May/ Jun 40 Bordeaux Germany captures May/ Jun 40 Netherlands Surrenders May/ Jun 40 Belgium Surrenders May/ Jun 40 France Surrenders May/ Jun 40 Italy Joins Axis Jul/ Aug 40 Hungary Joins Axis Jul/ Aug 40 Rumania Joins Axis Sep/ Oct 40 Egypt Italy invades Nov/ Dec 40 Greece Italy invades Nov/ Dec 40 Egypt Allies attack Italians ************************************** Or : ************************************** Word War II (41-45) – Eastern Front (from “ War in Russia ” - SSI) DATE SITE BATTLE INFO Jun 41 Daugavpils Germans capture Jun 41 Gorodishche Germans seal off Jun 41 Minsk Germans seal off Jul 41 Minsk Germans capture Jul 41 Dvina Germans cross Jul 41 Dniepr Germans cross Jul 41 Smolensk Germans reach Jul 41 near Uman Germans seal off forces Aug 41 Smolensk Germans capture Aug 41 near Uman Germans capture forces Aug 41 Dnepropetrovsk Germans reach Aug 41 Kremenchug Germans form bridgehead Aug 41 North of Gomel Russian attack repulsed Aug 41 Novgorod Germans capture Aug 41 Vuosalmi Finns capture Aug 41 Viipuri Finns capture Sep 41 near Lokhvista Germans capture Sep 41 Schlusselburg Germans capture Sep 41 Dniepr Germans cross Sep 41 Kiev Germans capture Oct 41 Vyazma Germans seal off Oct 41 Bryansk Germans seal off Oct 41 Vyazma Germans capture Oct 41 Bryansk Germans capture Oct 41 Moscow Germans begin assault Oct 41 Kharkov Germans capture Oct 41 Orel Germans capture Oct 41 Kalinin Germans capture Oct 41 Sevastopol Germans begin assault Nov 41 Rostov Germans capture Nov 41 Rostov Russians recapture Nov 41 Tikhvin Germans capture Nov 41 Kursk Germans capture Dec 41 Tikhvin Russians recapture Dec 41 Moscow Counteroffensive begins ************************************** Or ************************************** World War II (41-45) – Pacific War (from “ Pacific War ” - SSI) DATE BASE BATTLE INFO 12/ 41 Bangkok Japanese capture 12/ 41 Batan I. Japanese capture 12/ 41 Clark Field Japanese capture 12/ 41 Davao Japanese capture 12/ 41 Guam Japanese capture 12/ 41 Hong Kong Japanese capture 12/ 41 Jitra Japanese capture 12/ 41 Khota Bharu Japanese capture 12/ 41 Kuantan Japanese capture 12/ 41 Lagaspi Japanese capture 12/ 41 Lingayen Japanese capture 12/ 41 Makin I. Japanese capture 12/ 41 Miri Japanese capture 12/ 41 Oahu Japanese carrier attack 12/ 41 Sarawak Japanese capture 12/ 41 Singora Japanese capture 12/ 41 Tarawa Japanese capture 12/ 41 Wake Japanese capture **************************************** There is also a good one at http://www.wargamer.com/ww2timeline/main.asp

Froonp -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 3:58:38 PM)
Another thing I would love to see in such a broad WWII game would be a timeline, short history, important dates of each country, especially minor countries, so that you can learn a bit of our history while playig the game. This would not need to be extensive and cover the history since the first man, but could begin in the mid 19th century so that you understand correctly the past of this country at the time of WWII and why it was Axis or Allied inclined for example, why it was French or British controlled for African countries, etc... Example : June 12, 1830 : France invades Algeria (34 000 soldiers) and occupies Algiers after a three-week campaign. France used the failure of the blockade as a reason for a military expedition against Algiers. 1834 : France annexed the occupied areas of Algeria, which had an estimated Muslim population of about 3 million, as a colony. Colonial administration in the occupied areas (the so-called régime du sabre (government of the sword)) was placed under a governor general, a high-ranking army officer invested with civil and military jurisdiction, who was responsible to the minister of war. 1881 : France invaded Tunisia, claiming that Tunisian troops had crossed the border to Algeria, France's main colony in Northern Africa. Italy, also interested in Tunisia, protested, but did not risk a war with France. The Wikipedia is a good source for this. Maybe Matrix already have such data ?

rtamesis -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 4:34:36 PM)
Re: Historical detail Have the historical details window pop-up available as part of the menu items when you right-click on the unit and not automatically show up on the screen everytime one clicks on a unit. With everything that's going on, I would not want the window cluttering up the screen unless I really wanted to view it. Perhaps the scenario set-up screen should be the place for having the history available to the player. Re: Animation I'm like you. Animation adds little to my game experience unless it's a unit going away in a poof of smoke when it is completely destroyed or a destroyed ship unit quickly sinking into the sea. Make it a choosable option on the menu bar that can be turned off to save on processing power and increase the performance. Replays are fine as a menu item if other players want it. Footage can quickly get repetitive and slows down game play considerably as far as I'm concerned so again, make it an option that can be quickly turned off. Re: Sound Other than an explosion sound when a unit is attacked and destroyed, I see little use for it. Again, make it an option that can be turned off.

rtamesis -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 4:48:48 PM)
If you are going to implement animations and sound, then please have it turned off by default when a player first fires up the game for the first time so that people with less powerful hardware can immediately play the game. When the player opens the game the first time, an initial set-up screen should then pop-up giving him the option of turning those things on automatically the next time he plays it. That way, it's his fault if the game play slows down intolerably as a result of animations and sound playing.

Cheesehead -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 6:47:51 PM)
IMO I don't think any of these issues need to distract you (Steve) from the meet and potatoes of the game. There are plenty of people at Matrix that can handle the eye and ear candy. I would hope you would let them deal with it and not worry about it for another minute of your time. Most of the historical fluff goes on in my imagination anyway. John

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 7:10:14 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Greyshaft I hate the repetition of some games which play the same animations/video clips umpteen times in a game. I want information dammit! I don't need some game designer's idea of video entertainment <oops... there goes my name off the beta list> OK... I agree with the need for a leetle something extra when you right click on an aircraft/naval counter. I vote for an even split between game information <this is one of 'x' Sopwith Camels in the game> and historical information < The Sopwith Camel entered service in May 1917 and was armed with twin vickers machine guns. It was a b@stard of a plane to fly and the average life expectancy of an English pilot was little more than two weeks. It has been claimed that the Sopwith Camel was responsible for shooting down 1,294 enemy planes during the war. > Dibs on the aircraft histories. I'll get up a para or two on each air unit counter and see if its useful. It's a starting point if nothing else. *Steve, if you have better idea for collating game info then then tell me before I waste too much time on this* Rather than a paragraph or two - how about 2 or 3 sentences with a notation about how much more could be said (+, ++, +++). All of this is going to be under the purview of Matrix who will edit all written material on the game before it gets published. A starting point that describes the most relevant features of an aircraft is certainly needed. We (royal We) might want more later, but it is early days on deciding this stuff.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 7:13:50 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: c92nichj quote: ORIGINAL: Greyshaft I hate the repetition of some games which play the same animations/video clips umpteen times in a game. I want information dammit! I don't need some game designer's idea of video entertainment <oops... there goes my name off the beta list> I agree with greyshaft that the same videoclip/picture cannot be played to many times, then it is just annoying, it have to be a unique clip for each occasion and shouldn't be played more than once maybe twice during a campaign, that was the beauty with the wonder movies in Civ II, in each game you could only build each wonder once, hence only see the movie once, as it would be unlikely that you built all of the wonders the next time you played the game and built a different set of wonders you would see a differnet set of movies. Limit repetition of any one video clip to a few rare occurences - got it. I think sound(s) and music might be repeated somewhat more often, but worrying about too much repetition there is also a good idea.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 7:16:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp Oh, I just got an idea. One thing that I would like MWiF to contain is a WWII timeline. Best if that timeline can be filtered by theaters. For example, from old SSI games : **************************************** World War II (39-45) - General Timeline (from “Clash of Steel” - SSI) Date Place Event Sep/ Oct 39 Poland Germans invade Sep/ Oct 39 Warsaw Germans capture Sep/ Oct 39 Poland Surrenders Nov/ Dec 39 Finland Russia invades Jan/ Feb 40 Finland Surrenders Mar/ Apr 40 Denmark Germans invade Mar/ Apr 40 Denmark Surrenders Mar/ Apr 40 Norway Germans invade Mar/ Apr 40 Oslo Germans capture Mar/ Apr 40 Norway Surrenders May/ Jun 40 Norway Allies land at Narvik May/ Jun 40 Norway Allies withdraw troops May/ Jun 40 Netherlands Germany invades May/ Jun 40 Belgium Germany invades May/ Jun 40 France Germany invades May/ Jun 40 Antwerp Germany captures May/ Jun 40 Paris Germany captures May/ Jun 40 Brest Germany captures May/ Jun 40 Bordeaux Germany captures May/ Jun 40 Netherlands Surrenders May/ Jun 40 Belgium Surrenders May/ Jun 40 France Surrenders May/ Jun 40 Italy Joins Axis Jul/ Aug 40 Hungary Joins Axis Jul/ Aug 40 Rumania Joins Axis Sep/ Oct 40 Egypt Italy invades Nov/ Dec 40 Greece Italy invades Nov/ Dec 40 Egypt Allies attack Italians ************************************** Or : ************************************** Word War II (41-45) – Eastern Front (from “ War in Russia ” - SSI) DATE SITE BATTLE INFO Jun 41 Daugavpils Germans capture Jun 41 Gorodishche Germans seal off Jun 41 Minsk Germans seal off Jul 41 Minsk Germans capture Jul 41 Dvina Germans cross Jul 41 Dniepr Germans cross Jul 41 Smolensk Germans reach Jul 41 near Uman Germans seal off forces Aug 41 Smolensk Germans capture Aug 41 near Uman Germans capture forces Aug 41 Dnepropetrovsk Germans reach Aug 41 Kremenchug Germans form bridgehead Aug 41 North of Gomel Russian attack repulsed Aug 41 Novgorod Germans capture Aug 41 Vuosalmi Finns capture Aug 41 Viipuri Finns capture Sep 41 near Lokhvista Germans capture Sep 41 Schlusselburg Germans capture Sep 41 Dniepr Germans cross Sep 41 Kiev Germans capture Oct 41 Vyazma Germans seal off Oct 41 Bryansk Germans seal off Oct 41 Vyazma Germans capture Oct 41 Bryansk Germans capture Oct 41 Moscow Germans begin assault Oct 41 Kharkov Germans capture Oct 41 Orel Germans capture Oct 41 Kalinin Germans capture Oct 41 Sevastopol Germans begin assault Nov 41 Rostov Germans capture Nov 41 Rostov Russians recapture Nov 41 Tikhvin Germans capture Nov 41 Kursk Germans capture Dec 41 Tikhvin Russians recapture Dec 41 Moscow Counteroffensive begins ************************************** Or ************************************** World War II (41-45) – Pacific War (from “ Pacific War ” - SSI) DATE BASE BATTLE INFO 12/ 41 Bangkok Japanese capture 12/ 41 Batan I. Japanese capture 12/ 41 Clark Field Japanese capture 12/ 41 Davao Japanese capture 12/ 41 Guam Japanese capture 12/ 41 Hong Kong Japanese capture 12/ 41 Jitra Japanese capture 12/ 41 Khota Bharu Japanese capture 12/ 41 Kuantan Japanese capture 12/ 41 Lagaspi Japanese capture 12/ 41 Lingayen Japanese capture 12/ 41 Makin I. Japanese capture 12/ 41 Miri Japanese capture 12/ 41 Oahu Japanese carrier attack 12/ 41 Sarawak Japanese capture 12/ 41 Singora Japanese capture 12/ 41 Tarawa Japanese capture 12/ 41 Wake Japanese capture **************************************** There is also a good one at http://www.wargamer.com/ww2timeline/main.asp Copyright is always a concern when dealing with these matters. Happily, it isn't mine though. Building on your idea, two parallel timelines that show the actual history versus the game's history would be interesting, especially during an after-action report.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 7:27:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rtamesis Re: Historical detail Have the historical details window pop-up available as part of the menu items when you right-click on the unit and not automatically show up on the screen everytime one clicks on a unit. With everything that's going on, I would not want the window cluttering up the screen unless I really wanted to view it. Perhaps the scenario set-up screen should be the place for having the history available to the player. Re: Animation I'm like you. Animation adds little to my game experience unless it's a unit going away in a poof of smoke when it is completely destroyed or a destroyed ship unit quickly sinking into the sea. Make it a choosable option on the menu bar that can be turned off to save on processing power and increase the performance. Replays are fine as a menu item if other players want it. Footage can quickly get repetitive and slows down game play considerably as far as I'm concerned so again, make it an option that can be quickly turned off. Re: Sound Other than an explosion sound when a unit is attacked and destroyed, I see little use for it. Again, make it an option that can be turned off. Ah, another person who, like me, mutes all sound effects. Sometimes this is necessary to keep other family members from taking aggressive counter-measures. The quasi-standard for the industry, that I have seen used often and approve of, is to default to displaying a lot of 'splash' screens / video at the beginning of the game but let the player skip over them all by pressing escape. In fact, this is what I did for my previous 2 games in the mid-1980s. One of the secondary screens that I expect to receive a lot of use when a player first starts playing MWIF is the game interface screen. This is where the player will set options to personalize what MWIF does or does not do about a host of 'features'. I think of the game having two sets of options: (1) optional rules for what is included in the simulation of WW II, and (2) game interface options. The former will be set before a game begins and for the most part will be locked at that point. The later can be changed by the player at any time during the game.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 7:40:57 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Cheesehead IMO I don't think any of these issues need to distract you (Steve) from the meet and potatoes of the game. There are plenty of people at Matrix that can handle the eye and ear candy. I would hope you would let them deal with it and not worry about it for another minute of your time. Most of the historical fluff goes on in my imagination anyway. John So you think my task list is long enough already? Oh, I concur. But I do so enjoy putting little red "done" notations next to task items. It has been my experience that if I don't provide a structure / framework and a vision for a task I delegate to others, then it can quickly head off into strange and not so wonderful lands, disappearing for weeks or months and coming back transformed beyond all recognition from what was intended. Setting the stage for others to do detail work is therefore not really something I get to choose whether to do or not. If I skip over it entirely, or do a sloppy job, then I just end up with people expending a lot of wasted time and energy, AND I have to go back and do the job right the second time around. Where I see my role, is defining the task(s) well and knowing exactly where I am going to integrate the results of their labors into MWIF. It shouldn't require much of my time before they start their work and hardly any at all until they give me back draft copies for me the integrate into the overall game. I certainly won't be editing their text, sound, or video clips. The only place in all this where I will need to write code is animation of pieces moving around on the map.

rtamesis -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 7:42:57 PM)
A new player may not necessarily realize that you can skip the splash screens and videos at the start of the game. I had to weather through tons of those things in other games until I pressed the esc key out of frustration. If you are going to implement splash screens and video at the beginning of the game, please have the instructions "Press ESC to skip this" appear if the player moves his mouse and then fade away after a 10 seconds of mouse inactivity.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 10:02:54 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rtamesis A new player may not necessarily realize that you can skip the splash screens and videos at the start of the game. I had to weather through tons of those things in other games until I pressed the esc key out of frustration. If you are going to implement splash screens and video at the beginning of the game, please have the instructions "Press ESC to skip this" appear if the player moves his mouse and then fade away after a 10 seconds of mouse inactivity. Or something. Ok.

popejoy1 -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 10:17:37 PM)
Hi! Here are some initial thoughts: 1) Historical detail - - I would ask that the historical detail for any one unit be limited to what it did historically and/or what it has done in the current game. - I would ask that all the historical information be accessible from an in-game browse function that could review this information for each unit (including enemy units) in the game. 2) Animation - - I would suggest animating the combat results, possibly with die rolls being shown as well. I wouldn't necessarily show them on the map, but show all the engaged units on a suitable background and let combat commence. This might make it easier for players to pick out which units they want to destroy or have damaged, and to see what their opponent has done to them. The player should have the option to not show die rolls and not show the combat animation (just letting the units change status and disappear from the map), provided a detailed combat log (a la UV or WitP) is available to figure out exactly what happened during a battle. - I would suggest using small sprites for things like factories, oil refineries, resources, manpower, and other map elements. - At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron"). MWiF has an enormous variety of units, so it might be tough to develop accurate sprites for each of the individual ships and aircraft types in the game. If you do this, I suggest the on-counter information should be displayed if the unit is selected (see "Historical Detail"). At lower screen zoom levels, it might be easier to have just an icon (a la UV or WitP) representing the position - clicking on the icon would allow access to all units "underneath" the top unit on the stack. Sound: - I would suggest appropriate sound information (boom / splash / Stuka sirens / artillyer fire / bombs whistling down / aircraft maneuvering / etc) for specific results tied to combat animation (if used). The player should have the option of turning these off. - I would suggest national anthems for each participant be played for certain major events; a "national march" for national victories (i.e., enemy country surrenders), a "national hymn" for defeats, etc. For example: USA Anthem: "The Star Spangled Banner" (Sousa) USA March: "The Stars and Stripes Forever" (Sousa) USA Air Victory: "Wild Blue Yonder" USA Naval Victory: "Anchors Aweigh" USA Hymn: "Adagio For Strings" (Barber) UK Anthem: "God Save the King" UK March: "Rule Britannia" UK Hymn: "War Requiem" (Britten) My $0.02! Pablo

Froonp -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/27/2005 11:08:09 PM)
About historical details, for the ships for WiF FE, side color views of the ships would be good is displayed in the dialog where you have all the info about the ships. Also, blueprints 3-views of the ships can make good backgrounds to some screens about naval things. Just look at the Cruiser in Flames cover for an example (I include this in the post). Also, about the overall design / presentation of the game, it would be good if it was in the ADG line of reds you know. Red is somehow the "color" of WiF. Look at the different covers of the different games, especially those made from 1998 and afterwards. I think most were made with the help of Rob anyway, so I hope the ADG "red" appearance will be there. quote: 2) Animation - - I would suggest animating the combat results, possibly with die rolls being shown as well. Indeed seeing the dices for real sometimes can be fun, I like this. You know, you could also include one kind of a cookie animation in the game, typical of something that always happens at least once during a real WiF FE game, that is the dices accidentaly tossed amongst the counters on the map wreaking havoc on the lovely counter stacks patiently made by the players[:D]. Of course, all units would go back magically to their normal place a few seconds after, this would only exist for the fun of it. I would love it. quote: I wouldn't necessarily show them on the map, but show all the engaged units on a suitable background and let combat commence. This might make it easier for players to pick out which units they want to destroy or have damaged, and to see what their opponent has done to them. The player should have the option to not show die rolls and not show the combat animation (just letting the units change status and disappear from the map), provided a detailed combat log (a la UV or WitP) is available to figure out exactly what happened during a battle. - I would suggest using small sprites for things like factories, oil refineries, resources, manpower, and other map elements. - At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron"). Oh no please never do that, I personnaly know at least one player who would die of a heart attack if he saw that the world of sprites has invaded the world of WiF FE !!! [:D] Arghhh not that [:-] quote: MWiF has an enormous variety of units, so it might be tough to develop accurate sprites for each of the individual ships and aircraft types in the game. If you do this, I suggest the on-counter information should be displayed if the unit is selected (see "Historical Detail"). At lower screen zoom levels, it might be easier to have just an icon (a la UV or WitP) representing the position - clicking on the icon would allow access to all units "underneath" the top unit on the stack. I was joking, I hope you understood (but pleaaaaase, no sprites......) [image]local://upfiles/10447/B2DDC371A8724C6B8CF2AC148F63746C.jpg[/image]

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/28/2005 1:56:46 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: popejoy1 Hi! Here are some initial thoughts: 1) Historical detail - - I would ask that the historical detail for any one unit be limited to what it did historically and/or what it has done in the current game. - I would ask that all the historical information be accessible from an in-game browse function that could review this information for each unit (including enemy units) in the game. 2) Animation - - I would suggest animating the combat results, possibly with die rolls being shown as well. I wouldn't necessarily show them on the map, but show all the engaged units on a suitable background and let combat commence. This might make it easier for players to pick out which units they want to destroy or have damaged, and to see what their opponent has done to them. The player should have the option to not show die rolls and not show the combat animation (just letting the units change status and disappear from the map), provided a detailed combat log (a la UV or WitP) is available to figure out exactly what happened during a battle. - I would suggest using small sprites for things like factories, oil refineries, resources, manpower, and other map elements. - At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron"). MWiF has an enormous variety of units, so it might be tough to develop accurate sprites for each of the individual ships and aircraft types in the game. If you do this, I suggest the on-counter information should be displayed if the unit is selected (see "Historical Detail"). At lower screen zoom levels, it might be easier to have just an icon (a la UV or WitP) representing the position - clicking on the icon would allow access to all units "underneath" the top unit on the stack. Sound: - I would suggest appropriate sound information (boom / splash / Stuka sirens / artillyer fire / bombs whistling down / aircraft maneuvering / etc) for specific results tied to combat animation (if used). The player should have the option of turning these off. - I would suggest national anthems for each participant be played for certain major events; a "national march" for national victories (i.e., enemy country surrenders), a "national hymn" for defeats, etc. For example: USA Anthem: "The Star Spangled Banner" (Sousa) USA March: "The Stars and Stripes Forever" (Sousa) USA Air Victory: "Wild Blue Yonder" USA Naval Victory: "Anchors Aweigh" USA Hymn: "Adagio For Strings" (Barber) UK Anthem: "God Save the King" UK March: "Rule Britannia" UK Hymn: "War Requiem" (Britten) My $0.02! Pablo Very nice.

Shannon V. OKeets -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/28/2005 2:02:43 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp quote: - I would suggest using small sprites for things like factories, oil refineries, resources, manpower, and other map elements. - At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron"). Oh no please never do that, I personnaly know at least one player who would die of a heart attack if he saw that the world of sprites has invaded the world of WiF FE !!! [:D] Arghhh not that [:-] One of the connotations of the word 'plush' is that it is tastefully done. As for using the 'standard' colors for WIF that ADG used, it was one of the very first points that Rob Armstrong made in discussing doing the art for MWIF.

popejoy1 -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/28/2005 6:13:58 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Froonp quote: ORIGINAL: popejoy1 - At high zoom levels, I suggest you consider using animated sprites for different kinds of units (a la "Hearts of Iron"). Oh no please never do that, I personnaly know at least one player who would die of a heart attack if he saw that the world of sprites has invaded the world of WiF FE !!! [:D] Arghhh not that [:-] Hmmm - maybe that's why "Hearts of Iron" gives the player the option to use sprites or NATO-standard symbology. I'll amend my suggestion to give the player a choice between sprites and NATO-standard symbology. [:)]

macgregor -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/28/2005 8:11:03 PM)
Ah ha! You finally open a thread I might have some input in. Unfortunately Popejoy has stolen my thunder. I think we're all on the same page with the music. I'd like the music to be educational as well as entertaining, so I could familiarize myself with the different coutry's anthems and marches. If I could I'd like to make a plug here for the Live365 website(for which I have no affiliation) which offers thousands of radio channels for free, from every country and every time period(certainly WW2 anyway). Also very good for playing wargames are some of their movie score channels.

Greyshaft -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/29/2005 12:29:40 AM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets quote: ORIGINAL: Greyshaft Dibs on the aircraft histories. I'll get up a para or two on each air unit counter and see if its useful. It's a starting point if nothing else. Rather than a paragraph or two - how about 2 or 3 sentences with a notation about how much more could be said (+, ++, +++). OK, gives me something constructive to do while waiting for the test phase to begin. One observation on Popejoy's comment re: ... appropriate sound information (boom / splash / Stuka sirens / artillyer fire / bombs whistling down / aircraft maneuvering / etc) . Since WiF is a strategic game then I ponder the immediate applicability of those tactical sound effects. Perhaps sounds of troops marching or massed aircraft flyovers could give a better "big picture" effect. Maybe both types of sound bites can find their niche within the game.

Manack -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/29/2005 9:11:47 AM)
HISTORICAL DETAIL Being able to access historical information on counters is an excellent idea. It would also be great if it were possible to do so on every hex in the game as well. Major battles/events fought at a particular location. Not that I would expect matrix to put in that information for every extra hex. But if the user base could mod it they will. Another idea would be for each turn have available the historical events that happened. That way the player could compare their capture of Paris against the historical date. Or perhaps when a unit moves into Paris in the status bar have the information scroll by. This information should be a modable part of the game. Perhaps have an OnCapture OnLiberate fields containing text to display unobtrusively on those events. ANIMATION Alot of these ideas will be annoying to some. But here is what my brainstorming came up with. Dice Rolling. Some people have firm faith in their ability to effect a dice roll by striking a bargain with the universe. Others are irritated by every gimmicky effect which slows down gameplay. This should be an optional feature. Counters Moving. When your opponent moves your should be able to watch the hexes they move over. Perhaps even highlight those hexes as the counter moves. This also should be able to be configured to be skipped always and skipped on demand. Ambience. Have factories smoke stacks billow as they work. Or if they are damaged by bombing have them burn. Rather than having to go off the weather lines have an option where the climate can be displayed over the hex via a animated cloud or some other type of effect. Providing players with immediate feedback of the status of a hex. Have tiny trains travel up and down the rail lines. Convoys sailing through the sea zones where they are placed. Screens. Perhaps have a background animation or scene keyed to the battle/terrain/weather being fought. A battle in a blizzard might have frosted buttons/backgrounds. It would be neat if the entire GUI subtly changed depending on the outcome of the war. So Germany it would shift from enthusiasm in 1940 to sheer desperation in 1944. Short optional ingame movies on major events. Fall of Paris, Berlin, Moscow etc. I tend to think they don't provide enough bang for buck. Most people would only watch them once. SOUNDS Music. I would like to see the ingame music linked to the country you are playing in order to give a different feeling to each nation. Perhaps each side having its own containing folder of mp3's to which the user can add their own selections to the playlist if they desire. Depending on the hex, screen which has focus overlay some background noise for that selection. A industrial clanging for the production screen, tropical jungle sounds for examining a hexstack in Burma. A train toots when you railmove. Parachuts open on an airborne assault. Combat sounds during resolution and varying depending on units engaged and result.

amwild -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/29/2005 8:29:04 PM)
Historical Detail: Well, what can I say? You could put some WWII era film clips in here and there to punctuate major events such as victories/defeats. Images and specifications of the relevant nations' uniformed soldiers, tanks, trucks artillery, etc in info screens, as well as each nation's decorations. Details of famous soldiers and statesmen for each nation. Animation: The sea and rivers, rather than being given a flat, static texture, could have the option of animations of waves, sea shore surf and water flow. The sea animations could also reflect the weather. The weather layer could have the option of appearing as animated layers of clouds, etc. hovering over the map. When a unit moves, flips, or is destroyed, there could be the option of animating the event. Allow the user to control the presence and/or speed of these animations, and allow user action to interrupt them when they are switched on. There could be a variety of animations for each of these events, with a choice of either a simple animation of the "virtual cardboard" counter or a more fancy animation of whatever the action represents. Sound: Think of something like the event-driven Microsoft Office sounds. The user doesn't have to use them, but if they want, users can select a sound for each of a great number of events, such as button clicks, unit movement, units flipping, units being destroyed, nukes detonating, etc. If a user is still sitting in front of the PC at 6 AM, half asleep, they might appreciate an audible as well as a visible warning that something terrible is happening to them (apart from discovering that it is already 6 AM and they have to get up in half an hour). You could have a bunch of default sounds pre-configured, and a global "Play Sounds" option so they coud be enabled/disabled quickly.

gunner333 -> RE: Historical Details, Animation, and Sound (8/30/2005 4:40:17 PM)
Hmmm... About animations: To buy a game I need minimum WITP(war in the pacific)'s battle animations like graphic. Its brings a personal touch, when you see that your beloved "Bismark" fights with hordes of SwordFish torpedobombers shooting them down with its AA batteries. Anyway I think you have to see WITP's animations. I think its the good level of graphic for the groagnant game.

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