RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP

RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (Full Version)

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Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:42:11 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: treespider quote: Yep I watched Vince Ferragamo throw a then record 509 yards in a losing effort against Chicago... But thus REALLY is off topic! Sorry! Not really off topic. This analogy all started in response to the "If the Zero performed so great why did the Japanese lose Midway" line of thought. In a thread thatwas supposed to be about A/C weapons....[:D]

mdiehl -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:42:50 PM)
quote: This analogy all started in response to the "If the Zero performed so great why did the Japanese lose Midway" line of thought Well, if the Zero performed so great why did the Japanese lose 3 out of the 4 CV vs CV battles they fought (against the USN), and why did the Wildcats down more Zekes in these CV engagements than they lost?

Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:43:06 PM)
Well, if the TIE fighter was so maneuverable and fast, why did the Empire lose the battle of Yavin?

rtrapasso -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:44:09 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Well, if the TIE fighter was so maneuverable and fast, why did the Empire lose the battle of Yavin? It was obviously the hand of God, er, excuse me... from the Force!!

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:44:49 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Well, if the TIE fighter was so maneuverable and fast, why did the Empire lose the battle of Yavin? They Lost??!!!! I've got to re-read my Star Watrs!!![:D]

Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:45:19 PM)
So we're not going to launch into another 200-post verbal battle over this too? What a shame...

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:46:19 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus So we're not going to launch into another 200-post verbal battle over this too? What a shame... Give it time....

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:46:59 PM)
Since I know now that no matter what we agree on here - the game won't change...I'm more interested in hitting post # 500

rtrapasso -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:47:05 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Big B quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus So we're not going to launch into another 200-post verbal battle over this too? What a shame... Give it time.... Hey, we're ALREADY over 200 (well, for the thread)!

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:47:46 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: rtrapasso quote: ORIGINAL: Big B quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus So we're not going to launch into another 200-post verbal battle over this too? What a shame... Give it time.... Hey, we're ALREADY over 200 (well, for the thread)! Just a few more!

Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:48:53 PM)
Go man, go! Just a few more 'till 501!

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:49:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Go man, go! Just a few more 'till 501! Well thank you! (Another one down)

mdiehl -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 10:55:42 PM)
quote: Nope, I'm attributing it to a 1000mile+ round trip I'm sorry, i forgot about the trouble you have interpreting printed text. To make sure there is no further misunderstanding, its a round trip of 1,130 miles OK. So, you claim that the Japanese pilots when they encountered the F4Fs were suffering the fatigue of having flown 1130 air miles before entering combat. Bzzzt. Wrong. quote: I'm not ignoring it...i'm dismissing it because its a complete fabrication on your part. Ok. So you are claiming that the Allied pilots at Lunga had worry free nights without fear of bombardment from land based artillery, night harrassing aircraft missions, combat noise, or Japanese infilitration. Bzzzt. Wrong again. quote: As is your ducking and weaving, selective interpretation of an author's text, not to mention fellow that of other posters. More of the same bs from you. quote: Oh dear......I am crushed. not. Readers can make their own judgements on that as I stated from the beginning. They have. And they are. [:D]

Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:07:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mdiehl OK. So, you claim that the Japanese pilots when they encountered the F4Fs were suffering the fatigue of having flown 1130 air miles before entering combat. Bzzzt. Wrong. lol....you must be suffering from Malaria to have copped that interpretation out of my text. [:D] quote: Ok. So you are claiming that the Allied pilots at Lunga had worry free nights without fear of bombardment from land based artillery, night harrassing aircraft missions, combat noise, or Japanese infilitration. Bzzzt. Wrong again. Nope...I'm saying that you are grasping at straws and taking the occasional Washing Machine Charlie or Pistol Pete attack and attempting to inflate it in order to counter Richard Frank's conclusions. Too bad Frank didn't think that the pilots on Lunga were suffering SO much stress while sleeping in their bunks that he would list it as a counterpoint to the Japanese accepting battle under serious handicaps. quote: More of the same bs from you. Yep....its called common sense. quote: They have. And they are. [:D] A teacher can ask for nothing more. And no, i dont consider myself strictly a teacher, but both...teacher and student. I learn things here everyday, and i try to impart some of what i've learned as well. I also play WitP to which this forum is dedicated. You on the other hand do none of these things.

witpqs -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:11:08 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Totally OT, but American Footballers throwing 300-400 YARDS?!?!?!? Not all at once I hope, or they'd need longer fields.[X(] It's the steriods.

Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:15:24 PM)
I thought that was only in Baseball?[:D]

Apollo11 -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:18:11 PM)
Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Totally OT, but American Footballers throwing 300-400 YARDS?!?!?!? Not all at once I hope, or they'd need longer fields.[X(] It's the steriods. I think this is game average and not single throw... [;)] Leo "Apollo11"

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:20:33 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Totally OT, but American Footballers throwing 300-400 YARDS?!?!?!? Not all at once I hope, or they'd need longer fields.[X(] It's the steriods. I think this is game average and not single throw... [;)] Leo "Apollo11" It's the total yards thrown in the game by the quarterback B

witpqs -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:22:35 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Apollo11 Hi all, quote: ORIGINAL: witpqs quote: ORIGINAL: Terminus Totally OT, but American Footballers throwing 300-400 YARDS?!?!?!? Not all at once I hope, or they'd need longer fields.[X(] It's the steriods. I think this is game average and not single throw... [;)] Leo "Apollo11" (I know.)

Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:25:49 PM)
Is this the part where someone tries to explain Crickett? [&:] [:D]

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:29:22 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus Is this the part where someone tries to explain Crickett? [&:] [:D] I was just going to say - get back on topic ....American Footbal![:)]

mdiehl -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:30:28 PM)
quote: lol....you must be suffering from Malaria to have copped that interpretation out of my text. Consider this an opportunity for you to clarify what you meant then. Are you suggesting that large numbers of Zeros that participated in combat at Lunga were lost, after disengaging from combat, on the return flight from Lunga, because of fatigue on the voyage home? quote: Yep....its called common sense. When you're an asshole it's "common sense" in action?

Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:30:46 PM)
That may be the one type of nationally oriented thread that hasn't yet been hashed out to the order of 15 pages here. American Football vs. European Football Which is better? [:D]

Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:32:21 PM)
Furthermore, if you assume the sky to be green, does that automatically mean that the grass isn't blue? Or that wheat flour and rice are substitution commodities?

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:34:26 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus That may be the one type of nationally oriented thread that hasn't yet been hashed out to the order of 15 pages here. American Football vs. European Football Which is better? [:D] OH!!! Dare we open THAT can of worms??!!! B

Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:35:07 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: mdiehl Consider this an opportunity for you to clarify what you meant then. Why? It was very clear.

Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:36:20 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Big B OH!!! Dare we open THAT can of worms??!!! B Yeah....your probably right. Everyone knows that European football players are woosies that would suffer a negative kill ratio against huge American football players. [:D]

Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:37:36 PM)
quote: ORIGINAL: Nikademus quote: ORIGINAL: Big B OH!!! Dare we open THAT can of worms??!!! B Yeah....your probably right. Everyone knows that European football players are woosies that would suffer a negative kill ratio against huge American football players. [:D] Oh no! Oh well since you started this..."It would depend on the circumstacnces"[:D] B

Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:38:21 PM)
If you're waiting for me to leap to the defence of the over-paid, under-worked, knuckle-dragging clotheshorses that constitute the "elite" of European footballery, you'd better not hold your breath, Nik![:D]

mdiehl -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:40:12 PM)
quote: Why? It was very clear. And you claim I "duck and weave." [8\|] No it wasn't. I'm concerned that if I claim I know what you mean I'll get your usual bullshit about "ducking and weaving" or "distorting" the things you say. You have said that the fatigue entails 1100 air miles. That's a round trip. You attribute Japanese combat losses to that effect (fatigue) in part. Since the Japanese flew 565 air miles from Rabaul to Lunga to engage the US there, your 1100 mile fatigue factor is discongruous with the fatigue felt by Japanese pilots as they engaged American pilots. That would seem to imply that you are claiming that lots of Japanese pilots were lost on the return flight after disengaging. But if that is what you are saying, let's hear you say it plainly like a real man, rather than leaving yourself some wiggle room to claim you didn't say it or to suggest that I have distorted your claim.

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