RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (Full Version)

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witpqs -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:46:55 PM)

Hey Terminus,

I saw on TV last night that the average person in Denmark eats 29.5 pounds of candy per year. That's more than any other country. Does that sound right?

Oh, sorry. That was OT. I'll try again.

Hey Terminus,

I saw on TV last night that the average person in Denmark has a kill ratio versus candy of 29.5 pounds per year. That's a higher kill ratio than in any other country. Does that sound right?




Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:47:22 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl

quote:

Why? It was very clear.


No it wasn't. I'm concerned that if I claim I know what you mean I'll get your usual bullshit about "ducking and weaving" or "distorting" the things you say.



Indeed, it is hard for you to take people out of context or distort what they are saying when they wont play along with you.




Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:48:59 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If you're waiting for me to leap to the defence of the over-paid, under-worked, knuckle-dragging clotheshorses that constitute the "elite" of European footballery, you'd better not hold your breath, Nik![:D]


Yeah, I thought you'd say that you prissy-foot fanboy. [:D]




mdiehl -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:49:02 PM)

quote:

Indeed, it is hard for you to take people out of context or distort what they are saying when they wont play along with you.


Again. State directly your claim. You say I "duck and weave" yet you are unwilling to dispense with vagueness, dissembling, or diversionary tactics. The question put to you is straightforward and all that is required for you to maintain some credibility is to answer it in a straightforward manner, if you dare.

You have attributed Japanese losses to fatigue induced by an 1100 mile trip. The distance from Rabaul to Lunga is 565 miles. Is it your contention that fatigue killed a substantial number of Japanese pilots after they withdrew from combat at Lunga and were en route returning to Rabaul?




Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:50:31 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl


Again. State directly your claim.


I made no claim. I reitterated what Richard Frank concluded long ago. You were the one making a claim involving stressed out US pilots who couldn't get their winks.




Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:50:32 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Hey Terminus,

I saw on TV last night that the average person in Denmark eats 29.5 pounds of candy per year. That's more than any other country. Does that sound right?

Oh, sorry. That was OT. I'll try again.

Hey Terminus,

I saw on TV last night that the average person in Denmark has a kill ratio versus candy of 29.5 pounds per year. That's a higher kill ratio than in any other country. Does that sound right?


What TV show was that?




witpqs -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:52:41 PM)

Something on the History Channel - maybe Modern Marvels - they did a thing on the manufacture of various snack foods and candies.




Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:52:48 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If you're waiting for me to leap to the defence of the over-paid, under-worked, knuckle-dragging clotheshorses that constitute the "elite" of European footballery, you'd better not hold your breath, Nik![:D]


Yeah, I thought you'd say that you prissy-foot fanboy. [:D]


In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!




Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:53:35 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!


say it fast three times. pfff




mdiehl -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:54:10 PM)

quote:

I made no claim. I reitterated what Richard Frank concluded long ago. You were the one making a claim involving stressed out US pilots who couldn't get their winks.


Again, I note that the question has been put to you directly, now, three times. And yet you more than anyone else seem unwilling to state clearly what you mean. Who is the one here that "ducks and weaves?" Who is the one here who evades questions?

You have accused me several times of distorting your claims. So if you have any honor you will state your claims plainly so that you may be held accountable for them, rather than leaving yourself "evasion room" to suggest that your position has been distorted.




Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:54:55 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Something on the History Channel - maybe Modern Marvels - they did a thing on the manufacture of various snack foods and candies.


Oh dear, oh dear, relying on the History Channel for our statistics, are we? Tsk, tsk...

Honestly, I have no idea. We eat too much of everything that's bad for us, but what "developed" country doesn't?




Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/15/2005 11:55:40 PM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!


say it fast three times. pfff



In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!

That fast enough?




Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:03:01 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: mdiehl


Again, I note that the question has been put to you directly, now, three times. And yet you more than anyone else seem unwilling to state clearly what you mean. Who is the one here that "ducks and weaves?" Who is the one here who evades questions?


I'm not evading the question. I see no reason to restate what has already been made very clearly. I'm sorry it frustrates you that i wont play along with your game. I know how much you love to try to pick apart people's text.

quote:


You have accused me several times of distorting your claims. So if you have any honor you will state your claims plainly so that you may be held accountable for them


Hmm you wish me to be held accountable, yet you feel no need to be held accountable for the stuff you sprout. You also appear to not feel the need to be held accountable when you lie through your teeth, such as when you stated that I was claiming that the carrier F4F's received a drubbing. I'm still waiting for you to quote the text in this thread where i wrote that.





mdiehl -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:03:18 AM)

quote:

LoL....lets see you try it. You will have to fly near daily missions of a total length of 1000+ miles for hours on end


quote:

lol....you must be suffering from Malaria to have copped that interpretation out of my text.


quote:

Why? It was very clear.


quote:

Indeed, it is hard for you to take people out of context or distort what they are saying when they wont play along with you.


quote:

I'm not evading the question. I see no reason to restate what has already been made very clearly.


Hmm. Shall we call this the "Nikademus Weave?"

It seems that Sir Robin bravely ran away. Apt avatar though.




Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:03:36 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!


say it fast three times. pfff



In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!

That fast enough?



Nope! again!!




Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:05:48 AM)

In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!
In fact, better not hold your breath at all. Your poor excuse for a parody of a joke of a failed attempt at a brain needs all the oxygen it can get!




Nikademus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:06:34 AM)

Very good....

Now go back to your 29.4 pounds of candy




Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:08:01 AM)

Said the representative of the FATTEST country on the planet!




rtrapasso -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:08:31 AM)

[:'(]
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Very good....

Now go back to your 29.4 pounds of candy


Actually, quite excellent considering he was actually consuming the 29.4 pounds of candy when he said that!!![X(]




Terminus -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:11:48 AM)

Yeah well, I've got a big mouth.




treespider -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 12:42:34 AM)

quote:

You have attributed Japanese losses to fatigue induced by an 1100 mile trip. The distance from Rabaul to Lunga is 565 miles. Is it your contention that fatigue killed a substantial number of Japanese pilots after they withdrew from combat at Lunga and were en route returning to Rabaul?



You miss quoted him again...

He said round trip.




Speedysteve -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 1:53:24 AM)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Yeah well, I've got a big mouth.


Yup and it's full of $%$&*$ [;)]




Speedysteve -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 1:55:10 AM)

P.S. European footballers are far more talented than their American counterparts [:'(][;)]




mdiehl -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 1:55:35 AM)

@treespider

quote:

You miss quoted him again...
He said round trip.


That is incorrect. I did not misquote him. His claim is that fatigue from an 1100 mile trip caused increased losses. The distance from Rabaul to Lunga is 565 miles. It logically follows (to anyone except those who try to avoid the point) that a pilot flying from Rabaul to Lunga, and then engaging in combat, has only flown 565 miles. 565 miles is not a "round trip." It's a "half trip." That pilot has logged only about 3 hours of flight time, and this after a fine night's rest, prior to combat. Of that 3 hours, about 2.5 hours of it is routine flying with no threat of contact prior to the engagement, and 2.5 hours of routine flying (if the aircraft has not suffered substantial damage) after the combat.

If one wishes to claim that fatigue induced by more than 565 miles worth of flight time affected Zero losses on a day to day basis, then one has to assume that substantial numbers of pilots were lost after breaking off combat at Lunga and on the way home to Rabaul.

The thing is, that is a logical (it would seem straightforward) implication of what Nickledimus writes. But as he has made pretense of being a victim of "distortions" of his claim, it seems reasonable to ask him or anyone else who holds that pov to state directly how that 2.5 hours of flying prior to combat equates with higher losses concomitant with 5 hours of flying.




fcooke -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 3:01:44 AM)

mdiehl - you've been claiming a 1.2 zero to 1 f4f loss rate for CV 42 battles and someone posted a batttle by battle tally that does not support that claim. Off the top of my head those numbers look right and I did not see you dispute them - care to comment on why?




pmelheck1 -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 4:09:47 AM)

Several years back I read that the Midway battle was wargamed by the Japanese staff and 4 CV were sunk in the course of the game. The referee running the game ruled that this was not possable and ruled 1 CV was sunk, 1 CV was damaged and the other 2 were untouched. Boy it's funny, this thread goes WAY back [:'(]




treespider -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 4:21:46 AM)

quote:

His claim is that fatigue from an 1100 mile trip caused increased losses



You misquoted him again he did not say that!. He said an 1100 mile round trip and you keep quoting him as say an 1100 mile trip. The last time I checked 565 plus 565 = 1130 miles pretty close to 1100.




treespider -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 4:23:11 AM)

quote:

If one wishes to claim that fatigue induced by more than 565 miles worth of flight time affected Zero losses on a day to day basis, then one has to assume that substantial numbers of pilots were lost after breaking off combat at Lunga and on the way home to Rabaul.


But you keep forgetting that these Zero also had to fly 565 miles back to base...




tsimmonds -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 4:32:40 AM)

Every time something like this comes up, I Google to try to find an image of two guys p1ssing on each others' boots, but so far, no joy.




Big B -> RE: Aircraft Weapons, their Pro Allied slant in WiTP (9/16/2005 4:49:25 AM)


quote:

ORIGINAL: irrelevant

Every time something like this comes up, I Google to try to find an image of two guys p1ssing on each others' boots, but so far, no joy.

Oohhhh that wasa bad...but perhaps not without truth!

that's why I would rather keep it friendly...

B




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