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RE: Defeat disease: Bombur vs. Nik 42A Nik mod 5.0

 
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RE: Defeat disease: Bombur vs. Nik 42A Nik mod 5.0 - 1/14/2006 6:26:34 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		Nik, do you have any examples of your mod with larger air combats? 6 CV KB vs maybe 5 USN CVs? This is where it will prove it's effectiveness or not.

_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 31
RE: Defeat disease: Bombur vs. Nik 42A Nik mod 5.0 - 1/15/2006 1:51:32 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		-Very exciting turn

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/25/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 91st Chinese Corps, at 40,38

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 24
Ki-15 Babs x 1

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
17 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
21 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 50th Chinese Corps, at 40,38

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
Ki-21 Sally x 26
Ki-15 Babs x 1

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
6 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kure 5th SNLF, at 56,94


Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 3
B-17E Fortress x 9


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
47 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
3 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/26/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 50th Chinese Corps, at 40,38

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
Ki-21 Sally x 41
Ki-15 Babs x 1

No Japanese losses

Aircraft Attacking:
15 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
26 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kure 5th SNLF, at 56,94


Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 7
B-17E Fortress x 9


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
45 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
7 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 69,102

Japanese Ships
SS I-6, hits 4

Allied Ships
DD O'Brien
DD Mustin
DD Meredith
CL Leander


(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 32
RE: Defeat disease: Bombur vs. Nik 42A Nik mod 5.0 - 1/15/2006 2:47:49 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		-Well.....
-Japanese fighter pilots vowed revenge for the sleep hours they are losing due to night attacks on Mandalay


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/27/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 6


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 91st Chinese Corps, at 40,38

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21 Sally x 9
Ki-15 Babs x 1

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
22 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 50th Chinese Corps, at 40,38

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 14
Ki-21 Sally x 40
Ki-15 Babs x 1

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
79 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
27 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kure 5th SNLF, at 56,94


Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 9
B-17E Fortress x 13


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
89 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
9 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/28/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 3


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 91st Chinese Corps, at 40,38

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 2
Ki-21 Sally x 21
Ki-15 Babs x 1

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
9 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 21st Chinese Corps, at 40,38

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 12
Ki-21 Sally x 25
Ki-15 Babs x 1

No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
11 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 33
RE: Defeat disease: Bombur vs. Nik 42A Nik mod 5.0 - 1/15/2006 5:43:00 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		no sleep for the wicked.....

_____________________________


(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 34
Victory? - 1/16/2006 1:36:59 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		-The allied started a massive amphibious operation to recapture Gilli Gilli, resulting in the bloodiest day since the Battle of Coral Sea. While the combined fleet didn´t intervene, Japanese land based bombers sank one enemy Battleship and damaged another, at a cost of 28 bombers and 6 A6M2 lost. The results of the air attack sparked strong controversies among Japanese officials. Yamaguchi criticized the leaders of Betty and Nell formations, as they went after the Battleships, while forgetting the carriers, only 30 miles away. Yamamoto again argued that, Nik being an allied fanboy, he should have introduced some bias against torpedo bombers that attack carriers. In a rare display of insubordination, Tanaka criticized Yamamoto for his defeatism and said that, Nik being an allied fanboy or not not, the superiority of the Japanese warriors will bring victory to the empire, anyway, remains the sense of a lost opportunity....In other developments, P-40´s from the AVG attacked Haiphong and lost 7 P-40´s against 7 A6M2 shot down.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/29/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 4


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 63,65

Japanese Ships
AK Oregon Maru
PC Ch 20
PC Ch 21
MSW Choun Maru #21
MSW Toshi Maru #2
PC Ch 14
PC Ch 15

Allied Ships
SS Cuttlefish, hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 63,65

Japanese Ships
PC Ch 20
PC Ch 21
MSW Choun Maru #21
MSW Toshi Maru #2
PC Ch 14
PC Ch 15

Allied Ships
SS Cuttlefish

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Haiphong , at 37,38

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 24

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 50
IL-4c x 7

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 7 destroyed, 3 damaged
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed
Ki-15 Babs: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 6 destroyed, 8 damaged (one more P-40 crashed in the way to home)
IL-4c: 3 damaged

Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
4 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kohima , at 34,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
Ki-21 Sally x 27
Ki-48 Lily x 25
Ki-15 Babs x 3

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 5 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 10 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 4 destroyed
Lysander I: 2 destroyed


Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 15

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
15 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
12 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
9 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/30/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 3


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Gili Gili , at 56,94


Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 1


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kure 5th SNLF, at 56,94


Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 7
B-17E Fortress x 13


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x B-17E Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
7 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 56,94

Japanese aircraft
G3M Nell x 4
G4M1 Betty x 3

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 15
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
G3M Nell: 3 destroyed
G4M1 Betty: 3 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
DD Craven
CV Enterprise

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Gili Gili at 56,94

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
G3M Nell x 24
G4M1 Betty x 40

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 15
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged
G3M Nell: 3 destroyed, 18 damaged
G4M1 Betty: 9 destroyed, 22 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 3 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged

Allied Ships
BB Pennsylvania, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage (SANK!!!!!)
BB Idaho, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Helena
CA San Francisco

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G3M Nell launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x G4M1 Betty launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Gili Gili , at 56,94


Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 1


No Allied losses

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1011 troops unloading over beach at Gili Gili, 56,94



Allied ground losses:
475 casualties reported



< Message edited by Bombur -- 1/16/2006 11:42:49 PM >

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 35
RE: Victory? - 1/16/2006 9:04:31 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Admiral King expressed anger at the decision to use old slow battleships in an area known to be within range of strong enemy air assets. A court of inquiry will be held immediately after the operation is completed. While no fault can be found on the VF pilots who managed to shoot down half of the first raid and a good number of the 2nd, scrutiny will fall on the decision by the theater commander over the make-up of the forces used.

In better news, the 14th NZ brigade has successfully landed on Gili Gili without interference thanks to the sacrifices of the USN. We expect the base to be in Allied hands within a few hours.

The loss of the former fleet flagship and the damaging of a 2nd battleship however has led to morale being impacted.



_____________________________


(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 36
RE: Victory? - 1/17/2006 3:50:36 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Well, Admiral's Nimitz and Nik can at least inform Admiral King that the first counter-attack against an invested Japanese base has succeeded fully. Gili Gili fell with nary a fight....the Japanese either evacing at the last 2nd or the few troops of the 5th SNLF having already been completely disabled by shore and air bombardment. Even better.....the embattled Admirals can report that they also successfully repulsed a large Japanese surface TF that contained at least 3 battleships, hitting all three hard!

Battleship Yamashiro in particular was reported to have been heavily damaged, her topsides devestated by over a dozen 1000lb bomb hits taking out most of her teritary armament and gutting a quarter of her casemate deck with explosive fire. The ship was left burning furiously, slowly making her way back towards Rabaul. Battleship Mutsu was reported to have been struck by at least two torpedoes while the battleship Fuso was hit by several bombs starting topside fires. Two CA's were also hit and left burning with severe damage. half a dozen planes were lost to AA....light losses compared to the damage dolled out. The 14th Brigade fully disembarked and has only suffered negligable casualties in successfully retaking the base. So far all Japanese moves against Port Morosby have been firmly checked.

King however is still T'd off about the loss of the Pennsylvania however, and the substantial damage suffered by the Idaho (which managed to avoid a submarine thanks to the vigilence of her escorts)



AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 05/31/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TF 1011 troops unloading over beach at Gili Gili, 56,94



Allied ground losses:
124 casualties reported

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 55,97

Japanese Ships
SS I-7, hits 5, on fire

Allied Ships
DD Maury
DD Blue
DD Hughes
DD Bagley
DD McCall

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 6


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Gili Gili, at 56,94

Allied Ships
DD Farragut

Port hits 1
Port supply hits 2

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Gili Gili, at 56,94

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 130th IJA Base Force, at 36,28


Allied aircraft
Lysander I x 8
Hurricane IIb x 3


Allied aircraft losses
Lysander I: 4 damaged

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Lysander I bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kure 5th SNLF, at 56,94


Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 10
Kittyhawk I x 9
A-20B Boston x 10


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x Wirraway bombing at 2000 feet
10 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ground combat at Gili Gili

Allied Shock attack

Attacking force 3816 troops, 25 guns, 0 vehicles

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles

Allied assault odds: 27 to 1 (fort level 0)

Allied forces CAPTURE Gili Gili base !!!



Defeated Japanese Units Retreating!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/01/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
Beaufort V-IX x 3


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x Beaufort V-IX bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Ind. Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 3
IL-4c x 4


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 130th IJA Base Force, at 36,28


Allied aircraft
Lysander I x 6
Hurricane IIb x 3


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x Lysander I bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,92


Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 11
SBD Dauntless x 36
TBD Devastator x 15


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 19 damaged
TBD Devastator: 1 destroyed, 13 damaged

Japanese Ships
DD Hibiki
BB Fuso, Bomb hits 1
DD Yayoi
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 2
CA Suzuya

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,92


Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 4
SBD Dauntless x 18
TBD Devastator x 15


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 14 damaged
TBD Devastator: 9 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Fuso, Bomb hits 2
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,92


Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15
SBD Dauntless x 36
TBD Devastator x 15


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 1 destroyed, 29 damaged
TBD Devastator: 1 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 5, on fire
CA Suzuya
CA Atago
CL Yura
BB Fuso, Bomb hits 2, on fire
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,92


Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 15
F4F-4 Wildcat x 15
SBD Dauntless x 54
TBD Devastator x 15


Allied aircraft losses
SBD Dauntless: 14 damaged
TBD Devastator: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 4, on fire
DD Nowaki
CA Suzuya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Kiso
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 3, on fire
BB Fuso, Bomb hits 4, on fire
CA Atago

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 58,92


Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 28
F4F-4 Wildcat x 28
SBD Dauntless x 62
TBD Devastator x 28


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 4, on fire
BB Mutsu, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
BB Fuso, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CL Abukuma
CA Suzuya, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CA Atago, Bomb hits 1
CL Kiso
CA Myoko, Bomb hits 1
DD Uzuki

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
1 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
1 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x TBD Devastator launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 69,102

Japanese Ships
SS I-25

Allied Ships
DD O'Brien
DD Mustin



< Message edited by Nikademus -- 1/17/2006 3:52:06 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 37
RE: Defeat disease: Bombur vs. Nik 42A Nik mod 5.0 - 1/17/2006 4:10:19 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

Nik, do you have any examples of your mod with larger air combats? 6 CV KB vs maybe 5 USN CVs? This is where it will prove it's effectiveness or not.


Apparently not.


_____________________________





Yammas from The Apo-Tiki Lounge. Future site of WITP AE benders! And then the s--t hit the fan

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 38
RE: Defeat disease: Bombur vs. Nik 42A Nik mod 5.0 - 1/17/2006 7:42:14 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		The original Japanese battle plan called for coordinated arrival of a CV TF and the BB TF that was decimated by Nik, however, refueling issues resulted in the delay of the CV TF. The BB´s role was to draw attacks from enemy bombers, which they did, thus allowing a CV vs CV battle where we could have gained the upper hand (which they didn´t). The outcome, however, wasn´t considered so bad, as the enemy lost 12 bombers and had many of them damaged. New orders were sent to the Battleships advance together with the CV´s, to an hex close to Nik´s CV TF current location. If Nik doesn´t retreat his Carriers he will face a CV vs. CV battle with less bombers, and still with the BB´s in place. If Nik retreats, I can hit his transports. Betties/Nells from Rabaul and the remains of Sho and Zui air groups were ordered to join the battle, let us see what happens.....I expect at least to sink some transports, as the plan for a major CV vs. CV battle failed

(in reply to Ron Saueracker)
Post #: 39
Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 12:48:33 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		-The imperial navy achieved a great victory against fleeing USN carriers. No less than 2 fleet carriers confirmed lost and more two heavily damaged. The enemy lost no less than 268 aircrafy, including 126 lost in air to air combat. The Japanese seem to have learned well the lessons of Coral Sea battle, by launching their attacks in sucessive waves in order to disrupt enemy CAP and AA fire. On the other side, losses inflicted to the enemy attackers by IJN AA were pretty small (only 15 aircraft). There was a lot of luck involved in this victory, as it was result of a poorly executed plan and enemy forces were very close to escape from the trap. Another interesting aspect of this battle is the fantastic powers of Battleships as magnets for bombs and torpedoes. Time to drink sake!!!!!!! Meanwhile, we still had disagreements in the Japanese leadership. While Yamamoto finally agreed that Nik isn´t an allied fanboy, he also thinks that the game is hard coded to prevent bombers from attacking CV´s if there are BB´s in the same hex, so the Japanese Navy will never win another victory like this. Yamaguchi praised the CV TF commander for his agressiveness and Tanaka said that, despite Yamamoto defeatism, the empire will prevail in the end.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/02/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 12


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 12000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Naval bombardment of Tulagi, at 68,96

Allied Ships
DD O'Brien
DD Mustin
DD Meredith
CL Achilles
CL Leander

Japanese ground losses:
74 casualties reported
Guns lost 2

Port supply hits 1

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Ind. Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 25
IL-4c x 3


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Mixed Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 3
IL-4c x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 58

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 15
SBD Dauntless x 37
TBD Devastator x 19

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 7 destroyed, 1 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 15 destroyed, 7 damaged
TBD Devastator: 13 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CV Junyo
CV Akagi
CVL Ryujo
CVL Shoho
CV Hiryu
BB Haruna, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 41

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 18
A-20B Boston x 4

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 7 destroyed, 4 damaged
A-20B Boston: 4 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Nagato

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 15
SBD Dauntless x 27

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 3 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 5 destroyed, 5 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 2 destroyed, 23 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Hiryu
BB Ise
BB Kongo, Bomb hits 1
CV Akagi
CVL Ryujo
BB Nagato

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 34

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 6
TBD Devastator x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 3 destroyed, 2 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged
TBD Devastator: 6 destroyed, 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna
CV Kaga
CV Hiryu, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 41

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 16
SBD Dauntless x 35
TBD Devastator x 12

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 4 destroyed, 8 damaged
SBD Dauntless: 34 damaged
TBD Devastator: 1 destroyed, 3 damaged

Japanese Ships
CV Junyo
CVL Ryujo
CV Akagi
CV Soryu
BB Haruna
BB Ise
BB Nagato, Bomb hits 1
BB Kongo, Bomb hits 1
CV Kaga

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
3 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
4 x TBD Devastator bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 40

Allied aircraft
B-17C Fortress x 5

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 damaged


Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
4 x B-17C Fortress bombing at 5000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 54,99

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
D3A Val x 21
B5N Kate x 21

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 24
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 4 destroyed, 2 damaged
D3A Val: 17 destroyed
B5N Kate: 7 destroyed, 7 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed, 2 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
CA New Orleans

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
1 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
2 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 54,99

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 13
D3A Val x 21
B5N Kate x 21

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 15
F4F-4 Wildcat x 23

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
D3A Val: 2 destroyed, 17 damaged
B5N Kate: 1 destroyed, 19 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed, 4 damaged
F4F-4 Wildcat: 3 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown
CV Lexington, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 5, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 54,99

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 54
D3A Val x 41
B5N Kate x 72

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 21
F4F-4 Wildcat x 20

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 9 destroyed, 4 damaged
D3A Val: 1 destroyed, 24 damaged
B5N Kate: 5 destroyed, 55 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 18 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 16 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Louisville
CV Enterprise, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CA Vincennes
CA Northampton

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
1 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
1 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
2 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 54,99

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
D3A Val x 24

Allied aircraft
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 5 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-3 Wildcat: 2 destroyed
F4F-4 Wildcat: 2 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Hornet, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 54,99

Japanese aircraft
B5N Kate x 24

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
B5N Kate: 14 damaged


Allied Ships
CV Enterprise, on fire, heavy damage
CV Hornet, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
CLAA Atlanta, Torpedo hits 1, on fire

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 36

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 2
SBD Dauntless x 9

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed
SBD Dauntless: 7 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Haruna

Aircraft Attacking:
2 x SBD Dauntless bombing at 2000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 54,99

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 63
D3A Val x 40
B5N Kate x 44

Allied aircraft
F4F-4 Wildcat x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
D3A Val: 4 destroyed, 31 damaged
B5N Kate: 7 destroyed, 30 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
F4F-4 Wildcat: 1 destroyed

Allied Ships
CV Yorktown, Bomb hits 7, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
CA Astoria
CA Chester, Torpedo hits 2, on fire
CA New Orleans
CA Minneapolis
CA Portland, Bomb hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
1 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
1 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
2 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x D3A Val bombing at 2000 feet
3 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
4 x B5N Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/03/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 6


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 12000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 42

Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 12
A-20B Boston x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Kittyhawk I: 10 destroyed
A-20B Boston: 2 destroyed

Japanese Ships
BB Kongo

Aircraft Attacking:
1 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 40
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 1:06:50 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		Go Bombur

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Post #: 41
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 1:46:48 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		Time to make some analysis, to see what happened in the battle (I usually complain when I lose, but it seems reasonable to complain when I win too), so...

1-Total aircraft involved in attacks. I estimate Nik strenght in 108 F4F plus 144 SBD plus 56 TBD. So he had 200 bombers, however, he had more than 50 planes damaged in yesterday´s battle, it´s possible that not all of them attacked. Here are the number of Nik´s aircraft that attacked my carriers.
SBD: 37+27+35=97
TBD: 19+14+12=45
This data shows that only 70% of Nik´s dive bombers attacked, it´s likely that many were still grounded.
Now, how many bombers were able to launch their payload?

SBD: 22+25+35=82
TBD: 6+8+11=25

So, we have 107 planes releasing bombs (TBD attacked with bombs too) with only 5 hits, 4 in battleships, question is why????? Japanese AA wasn´t particularly effective. Japanese CAP decimated the enemy planes but this 107 planes actually survived the CAP, as we know that one TBD achieved a hit, we have a total hit rate of 5% or less, for SBD´s. I´m puzzled by this mediocre performance just as Iwas in my Coral Sea battle. Furthermore, hit rates didn´t increased in latter waves as they did in Coral Sea.

Now let us see what happened with Japan
-The Japanese went to the battle with 400 aircraft (5CV+2CVL in the same TF). Composition was close to 150 A6M2 plus 110 Val plus 140 Kate.
Planes attacking
Val:21+21+41+24=107
Kate:21+21+72+24=138
Total: 245 vs 143 for USN. Look to the fact that the numbers made a lot of difference here. The Japanese attack also arrived in 5 waves, the last unescorted, but at this point CAP wasn´t effective (only 1 F4F)
Notive that again I´m not counting the last wave of the day (the PM wave that crippled Yorktown, as my interest is mostly in AM attacks, because PM missions are dependent on early results)
Hits/releases
Val:(1/4)+ (7/19)+ (9/48)+ (1/24)=18/95 (18,9%)
Kate: (1/14)+ (5/20)+ (7/67)+ (2/24)=15/125 (12%)

-Results were much better since the first wave. Why the first waves weren´t so disrupted? It´s possible that Nik already had spent some AA anmo in his fight against Betties. The result seems to be easy to explain given the disproportion between number of aircraft and ships from both sides. My BB´s helped a lot too, but I still don´t understand why the USN bombers, particulalrly SBD´s had such a poor performance as compared with what they achieved at Coral Sea (???????)

< Message edited by Bombur -- 1/20/2006 4:36:10 AM >

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Post #: 42
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 1:51:16 AM   
Speedysteve

 

Posts: 15998
Joined: 9/11/2001
From: Reading, England
Status: offline 		The Allied hit rate does seem very poor I agree Bombur.

Nik. Could you give us the rough morale fatigue value of your boys from memory?

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Post #: 43
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 1:57:00 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Peliminary analysis indicates that i just got my ass kicked.



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Post #: 44
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 2:07:41 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Speedy

The Allied hit rate does seem very poor I agree Bombur.

Nik. Could you give us the rough morale fatigue value of your boys from memory?


don't believe the morale was badly affected. It takes alot to rattle the CV boys of both sides. There were however, alot of damaged bombers in the hangers being serviced. It could very well be that the fatigue/damage status impacted the bomber's preformance coupled with the extreme ranged attacks. About as bad a situation as a USN CV force could find itself even without being outnumbered two to one. Some bad luck too......my bombers hit Hiryu but it was a belt hit (hence a non damaging near miss) + as related some of my bombers went after the BB's instead of the CV's. Port Morosby fought a decent fight, bloodying the KB Zeros some but the A-20 bombermen were green as they come....didn't expect them to hit anything.

I should have retired at full speed.





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Post #: 45
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 2:14:07 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		I salvaged the older turn....yeah the situation was a bad one for the US, should have withdrawn at full speed (like the real guys would have done)

nearly 40% of my force was being serviced and fatigue was high (good number were at high teens to even 20+% fatigue. My force was tired.



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Post #: 46
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 2:22:35 AM   
Ron Saueracker


Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline 		That was a pretty good example of a larger air battle. Looked better than stock for sure. What do you guys think about air dropped torpedo accuracy? I'm leaning towards a reduction in the accuracy of air dropped torps (device mod) as I'm finding hits seem excessive, especially vs smallerships like DDs.

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Post #: 47
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 2:23:54 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		TBD torpedo accuracy sucked.



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Post #: 48
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 2:38:32 AM   
kkoovvoo

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker

That was a pretty good example of a larger air battle. Looked better than stock for sure. What do you guys think about air dropped torpedo accuracy? I'm leaning towards a reduction in the accuracy of air dropped torps (device mod) as I'm finding hits seem excessive, especially vs smallerships like DDs.


I agree, but also effectivness of torpedoes against small ships should be increased - you can see DD surviving 2 fishes in the game.

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Post #: 49
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 2:44:34 AM   
kkoovvoo

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

.... I still don´t understand why the USN bombers, particulalrly SBD´s had such a poor performance as compared with what they achieved at Coral Sea (???????)


My experience is that bombers less disrupted by CAP perform better when bombing ships.

Japan bombers had good escort, while US bombers escort was outnumubered 3:1 and bombers took heavy pounding.

Next waves of Japanaese bombers were attacking cripples, thats another reason why they had better hit ratio.

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Post #: 50
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 3:08:04 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ron Saueracker
That was a pretty good example of a larger air battle. Looked better than stock for sure. What do you guys think about air dropped torpedo accuracy? I'm leaning towards a reduction in the accuracy of air dropped torps (device mod) as I'm finding hits seem excessive, especially vs smallerships like DDs.


-I don´t think that a 12% torpedo hit rate vs. CV is low. If we look at Midway and Santa Cruz, accuracy is close to 20-30% (any info on Coral Sea, Nik?). Maybe you could argue that MANY Vals and Kates are effectively releasing their bombs (many of them were historically shot down by AA fire before), however, it could have been the case with a massive air battle (but in our smaller battle I had the same impressions). The trouble I see with AA is that one that was pointed by Nik, warships spend their loads in the first waves and then bocome defenseless, that´s why I deliberately created a BIG CV TF, with 400 planes, the objective was to force my planes to attack in sucessive waves, it´s also possible that Nik´s AA loads already were depleted by occasion of this battle. My BB´s had zero (!!!!!) AA anmo in today´s battle.


quote:


My experience is that bombers less disrupted by CAP perform better when bombing ships.


-Right


quote:


Japan bombers had good escort, while US bombers escort was outnumubered 3:1 and bombers took heavy pounding.


On the other hand, USN bombers are tougher, most of them were able to release their payloads despite adverse conditions.

quote:


Next waves of Japanaese bombers were attacking cripples, thats another reason why they had better hit ratio.


-Really not, accuracy didn´t change too much in the last waves, it actually decreased from 2nd to 3rd and from 3rd to 4th wave

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Post #: 51
The aftermath - 1/18/2006 3:23:55 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		-A combination of variables, coupled with incredible good luck, resulted in a "perfect storm" for the USN fleet. Gilli Gilli was retaken at a horrendous cost (1BB+2CV+260 aircraft). For Japan, this again changes the operational situation in South Pacific, as the loss of Zuikaku (oooopppppssss.....now it´s time to tell the truth) and the crippling of Shokaku had given a blow to both morale and offensive capabilities of Japanese forces. This battle shows how dangerous are offensive operations inside the range of LBA, particularly if too much time is lost in the disembark and amphibious assault. It´s unlikely that Japan will be able to win another battle like this one. Now, we have a solid superiority in carriers until the end of 1942. Question is, what to do with the current naval superiority? The realities of overextension must be considered. Japan has lack of aircraft, lack of pilots, lack of replacement ships, lack of land forces, lack of fuel and supplies. Furthermore, we learned that carriers are vulnerable and we are left with only 5 fleet carriers (Junyo and Hiyo are more light carriers) until Taiho is ready, so, what to do?
Time to reorganize the fleet for now. Destroyers are being sent to Tokyo to have their AA guns upgraded, new aircrews must arrive to replace the 100 CV pilots killed in the naval battle. A counteroffensive to restore the situation in New Guinea is being considered.


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/04/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 12


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 12000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Ind. Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 27
IL-4c x 4


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
20 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Mixed Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 3
IL-4c x 3


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF at 56,95


Allied aircraft
A-20B Boston x 3


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
DD Nagatsuki

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on TF, near Sag Sag at 57,88


Allied aircraft
Kittyhawk I x 7
A-20B Boston x 5
B-26B Marauder x 21


No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
BB Yamashiro, Bomb hits 2, on fire
CL Kinu
CA Atago
CL Yura

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 7000 feet
3 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
1 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 7000 feet
2 x A-20B Boston bombing at 6000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 7000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 7000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 7000 feet
4 x B-26B Marauder bombing at 7000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 40,52

Japanese Ships
PG Santos Maru
MSW Senyu Maru #2
MSW Seki Maru

Allied Ships
SS Saury

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/05/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 17

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-43-Ib Oscar: 1 destroyed


Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 12000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 40,52

Japanese Ships
PG Santos Maru
MSW Senyu Maru #2
MSW Seki Maru

Allied Ships
SS Saury

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Mixed Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 28
IL-4c x 7


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
59 casualties reported
Guns lost 1

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
4 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet

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Post #: 52
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 3:37:32 AM   
kkoovvoo

 

Posts: 253
Joined: 10/1/2004
From: Slovakia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

-Really not, accuracy didn´t change too much in the last waves, it actually decreased from 2nd to 3rd and from 3rd to 4th wave



The reason of lower accuracy in your stats probably was that the bombers tried to attack ships which already took enough damage to be sunk (although sinking is reported after air phases), thus the planes were *unable to reach target*, but in report it appears like *x kates/vals launching torpedoes or dropping bombs at x feets*.

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Post #: 53
RE: Revenge!!!!!!!!! - 1/18/2006 7:27:46 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		historical Coral Sea wouldn't make much of a comparison as the circumstances of the battle were so different. Against a small under armed and protected target, the US VT's scored their only serious success of the 1942 period while the Japanese torpedo preformance was marred by near crippling losses the day prior to the main event (otherwise both Yorktown as well as Lexington might have been torpedoed)

In this battle.....just about everything that could go wrong for the US did. over a third of my planes were under repair, those servicable were crewed by tired men....the battle was fought at maximum USN range which added to the fatigue and stripped the torpedoes from the TBD's putting them in near useless level bomber mode (the only purpose they served was to take some of the heat off the SBD's) The SBD crews were also facing TF's that were much much better protected both in the air as well as on the surface. On defense, my VF's did about as well as could be asked of them and the augmented AA of my TF's in comparison to Coral Sea took their toll...but there were just too many planes. Its hard to beat 7 flattops with four tired, depleated CV's fighting at max range.

In the end though, luck aside, it was my fault. I had considered a full speed retreat but figured it was unnecessary given the proximity of Port Morosby combined with how far i felt the TF's would go. (1 hex too short as it turned out)

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Post #: 54
RE: The aftermath - 1/18/2006 8:09:10 AM   
Nikademus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Bombur

-, what to do?
Time to reorganize the fleet for now. Destroyers are being sent to Tokyo to have their AA guns upgraded, new aircrews must arrive to replace the 100 CV pilots killed in the naval battle. A counteroffensive to restore the situation in New Guinea is being considered.



We promise blood, sweat and tears to any future Japanese intrusions into the Oz sphere of influence!




_____________________________


(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 55
RE: The aftermath - 1/18/2006 3:37:03 PM   
saj42


Posts: 1125
Joined: 4/19/2005
From: Somerset, England
Status: offline 		That was a gripping CV vs CV battle - i'm going to love playing this Mod over the standard game - just waiting for an AB Map version

Thanks to Nik and Andrew

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 56
New developments - 1/20/2006 4:14:57 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		-Japanese intel confirmed the sinking of two more USN fleet carriers, bringing the total to 4. It´s unlikely that the USN will be able to attempt offensive actions until 1944. Japanese diplomats were sent to secret contacts with their American counterparts in order to reach a peaceful agreement. The Chinese offensive against Nanning goes on. The Chinese AF is attacking ground units in Nanning with Il-4 aircraft escorted by P-40´s from AVG. A few losses were registered in the last two days. The loss of 50 planes aboard Yorktown and Hornet brings the great total of US aircraft losses to 300, the full complement of 4 Carriers. Yamamoto again noticed that the British lost no fleet carriers and that those CV´s could be used to reinforce the enemy fleet in South Pacific.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/06/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack at 54,44

Japanese Ships
PG Eiko Maru

Allied Ships
SS Grenadier

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kohima , at 34,25

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 25
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 30
Ki-21 Sally x 25
Ki-48 Lily x 25
Ki-15 Babs x 4

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 3

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 2 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 1 destroyed, 1 damaged
Lysander I: 1 destroyed

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 12

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
15 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
4 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
6 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
6 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
4 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/07/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Ind. Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 29
IL-4c x 8


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
12 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
4 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet

(in reply to saj42)
Post #: 57
RE: New developments - 1/20/2006 8:08:06 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		The White House denied the loss of two more carriers today. No worries. We'll be in Tokyo soon



_____________________________


(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 58
Back to China - 1/21/2006 3:38:50 AM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		As the situation is SoPac is relatively stable, both sides escalate operations in China. The offensive on Nanning continues, while Japanese Sallys escorted by Zeroes attacked the AVG base. The enemy lost 6 P-40 against one Zero and one Sally.

AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/08/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 9


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 12000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kunming , at 39,33

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
Ki-21 Sally x 43
Ki-15 Babs x 2

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 21

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 15 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 3 destroyed, 5 damaged


Allied ground losses:
10 casualties reported

Airbase hits 2
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 16

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
20 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
7 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Ind. Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 24
IL-4c x 4


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 19th Mixed Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 3
IL-4c x 3


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
3 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/09/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 6


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
6 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 12000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kunming , at 39,33

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 27
Ki-21 Sally x 40
Ki-15 Babs x 3

Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 16

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed
Ki-21 Sally: 1 destroyed, 8 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
P-40B Tomahawk: 2 destroyed, 8 damaged


Allied ground losses:
11 casualties reported

Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
12 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
5 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
2 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Ind. Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
P-40B Tomahawk x 18
IL-4c x 9


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet

(in reply to Nikademus)
Post #: 59
RE: Back to China - 1/21/2006 7:42:00 PM   
Bombur

 

Posts: 3642
Joined: 7/2/2004
Status: offline 		No news for the last two days. Japanese planes attacked Kohima, but didn´t find nothing to be destroyed...


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/10/42

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack at 54,44

Japanese Ships
TK Kyuei Maru
MSW Chitose Maru

Allied Ships
SS Grenadier

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR 06/11/42


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Air attack on Mandalay , at 33,30


Allied aircraft
LB-30 Liberator x 18


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x LB-30 Liberator bombing at 12000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on Kohima , at 34,25

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ib Oscar x 24
Ki-21 Sally x 21
Ki-48 Lily x 21
Ki-15 Babs x 3

Allied aircraft
Hurricane IIb x 2

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21 Sally: 3 damaged
Ki-48 Lily: 2 damaged
Ki-15 Babs: 1 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Hurricane IIb: 2 damaged

Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 9

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
15 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-48 Lily bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
3 x Ki-21 Sally bombing at 15000 feet
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Air attack on 11th Ind. Brigade, at 40,38


Allied aircraft
IL-4c x 9


No Allied losses

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x IL-4c bombing at 10000 feet


< Message edited by Bombur -- 1/23/2006 12:50:29 AM >

(in reply to Bombur)
Post #: 60
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