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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 2:36:35 PM

Dixie

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It was close, I almost ended up swinging from the rafters. We started work at 7pm and finished all the work by 10.30 but we had to sit around until 7am doing nothing.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 3:02:44 PM

VSWG

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"We"? Can't be that boring with other people around. Or does "we" refer to "me and the voices in my head"?

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 3:04:19 PM

Dixie

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A little from column A, a little from column B. We did have a kick about in the hanger for 45 mins, but that was about it. We didn't even have dry ice to make bombs with

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 3:21:49 PM

VSWG

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Isn't there other stuff in a military hangar to make bombs with?

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 3:27:42 PM

Dixie

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Not in ours, we're not allowed explosives, but that's probably a good thing

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 5:47:55 PM

VSWG

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The same should apply to Mr. Kim Jong Il...

But hey, now he's "sorry" about the nuclear test!

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 5:51:56 PM

Terminus

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Only because he's had a Chinese spanking...

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 6:08:36 PM

RUPD3658

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People pay good money for those especially for the "Happy ending"

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China rolls the log on Kim - 10/20/2006 6:21:10 PM

Nikademus

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one wonders what the Chinese really think about the situation.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 6:31:49 PM

Terminus

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That they don't want to deal with a few million refugees from the DPRK. It'd take resources away from their capitalistic pyjama party...

< Message edited by Terminus -- 10/20/2006 6:34:03 PM >

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 6:33:59 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

The same should apply to Mr. Kim Jong Il...

But hey, now he's "sorry" about the nuclear test!

After the Chinese finally decided to take him to task I bet he is.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 6:39:23 PM

Nikademus

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it must be tough for them. on the one hand they are continually wary of the US gaining too much influence/prestige/whatever in an area they consider their "backyard" yet at the same time they have to know that Kim's antics don't serve Chinese interests and may even pose a threat in the near future. Hence the continual string of meaningless baubles stressing restraint. The duality of the Chinese government's existance is rather facinating to watch.

< Message edited by Nikademus -- 10/20/2006 6:41:28 PM >

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 6:44:33 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

it must be tough for them. on the one hand they are continually wary of the US gaining too much influence/prestige/whatever in an area they consider their "backyard" yet at the same time they have to know that Kim's antics don't serve Chinese interests and may even pose a threat in the near future. Hence the continual string of meaningless baubles stressing restraint. The duality of the Chinese government's existance is rather facinating to watch.

Yeah, well, they want to be a super power they get to shoulder the responsibility of being one. China could have headed off this problem a long time ago had they wanted to.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 6:52:03 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Yeah, well, they want to be a super power they get to shoulder the responsibility of being one. China could have headed off this problem a long time ago had they wanted to.

Well, in that sense, the game is the same....you can't just slap an ally in the face. Wait.....we do that all the time

seriously...just as the West has it's ties and alliances, so do the chinese, and as the "up and coming" power you mentioned, they always have to have an eye on the longterm. NK is no doubt a pain in the ass to them as they 'are' trying to walk the tightrope of better relations with the west/world in general but at the same time, they don't want to see NK replaced with a unified SK which is major US ally. It gets tricky. There was an interesting thing on NPR the other day about the bridge linking china and NK and the two towns that border it. There, the chinese citizens interviewed were very wary of NK, even worried about them having a nuke. One interviewee said he was less worried about the US having 300 nukes than NK having 3. I have to wonder how if the Chinese leaders are having those very same thoughts. Nothing more worrying than a crack or a fanatic owning a nuke. Established nations posture.......fanatics will push the button.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:07:40 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Yeah, well, they want to be a super power they get to shoulder the responsibility of being one. China could have headed off this problem a long time ago had they wanted to.

Well, in that sense, the game is the same....you can't just slap an ally in the face. Wait.....we do that all the time

seriously...just as the West has it's ties and alliances, so do the chinese, and as the "up and coming" power you mentioned, they always have to have an eye on the longterm. NK is no doubt a pain in the ass to them as they 'are' trying to walk the tightrope of better relations with the west/world in general but at the same time, they don't want to see NK replaced with a unified SK which is major US ally. It gets tricky. There was an interesting thing on NPR the other day about the bridge linking china and NK and the two towns that border it. There, the chinese citizens interviewed were very wary of NK, even worried about them having a nuke. One interviewee said he was less worried about the US having 300 nukes than NK having 3. I have to wonder how if the Chinese leaders are having those very same thoughts. Nothing more worrying than a crack or a fanatic owning a nuke. Established nations posture.......fanatics will push the button.

I don't disagree with you at all NK is putting China in a difficult position, but only to the extent that China is letting them do so. Perhaps that is not the best way to phrase it. China needs to get off the fence. What is this we are a capitalist/communist country stuff? What is this we have an open/closed market? What is this we don't believe in intervening in the affairs of other countries, but we want to make sure NK and SK never get together?

I would agree with the assessment of those villagers. I am less worried about NK using a nuke, though it worries me some, than I am about them selling weapons and weapons technology to anyone and everyone.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:13:52 PM

Nikademus

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sadly, fence sitting is a political staple, regardless of government type. Case in point, NPR interviewed this senator, up and coming, forgot his name....think it's the IL one. Most hilarious point, he mentions how part of the problem with politics is about distractions caused by speculations....such as whether or not he'll run for president. The interviewer says "Well you can address that problem right now.....are you going to run for President?"

"well...blah blah....thats a good question......this is a question that i ask myself alot these days. A president should be useful. A candidant should ask himself whether or not he think's he'd be useful. Hence its a really good question.....however i think that should be addressed sometime in the future. but its a very good question. (God...he sounds like el Cid)"

some day it'd be nice to hear a politician just speak clearly and state his opinion on an issue vs. side step it or give a vauge, non-commital answer. Hilarious. whole interview went that way.......vaugue evasive answers that end up not making any position he has clear. And this guy is supposed to be one of the new breed.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:14:57 PM

VSWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: niceguy2005

Yeah, well, they want to be a super power they get to shoulder the responsibility of being one. China could have headed off this problem a long time ago had they wanted to.

Well, in that sense, the game is the same....you can't just slap an ally in the face. Wait.....we do that all the time

seriously...just as the West has it's ties and alliances, so do the chinese, and as the "up and coming" power you mentioned, they always have to have an eye on the longterm. NK is no doubt a pain in the ass to them as they 'are' trying to walk the tightrope of better relations with the west/world in general but at the same time, they don't want to see NK replaced with a unified SK which is major US ally. It gets tricky. There was an interesting thing on NPR the other day about the bridge linking china and NK and the two towns that border it. There, the chinese citizens interviewed were very wary of NK, even worried about them having a nuke. One interviewee said he was less worried about the US having 300 nukes than NK having 3. I have to wonder how if the Chinese leaders are having those very same thoughts. Nothing more worrying than a crack or a fanatic owning a nuke. Established nations posture.......fanatics will push the button.

Well said, Nik. Add to that the fact that China lost a lot of face when Our Dear Leader started to act like a loon... China wanted everyone to believe that at least Peking had some influence in Pyongyang - now it's obvious that they don't really control the situation. Losing face is something serious in China... I think they are seriously p!ssed.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:18:12 PM

VSWG

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

some day it'd be nice to hear a politician just speak clearly and state his opinion on an issue vs. side step it or give a vauge, non-commital answer. Hilarious. whole interview went that way.......vaugue evasive answers that end up not making any position he has clear. And this guy is supposed to be one of the new breed.

Well, that happened in Hungary, didn't it? What did their president (?) say...? "We screwed up at daylight, we screwed up at night"?

Next day: riots on the street... But hey, at least he was honest!

Edit: Found it, it was the PM: "We lied morning, noon and night."

< Message edited by VSWG -- 10/20/2006 7:24:20 PM >

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:28:19 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG
Well said, Nik. Add to that the fact that China lost a lot of face when Our Dear Leader started to act like a loon... China wanted everyone to believe that at least Peking had some influence in Pyongyang - now it's obvious that they don't really control the situation. Losing face is something serious in China... I think they are seriously p!ssed.

The problem is, Kim Jong Il isn't "acting" like a loon, he IS a loon. Have you seen the guy? Classic Napoleon complex...

Oh, and BTW, have you seen the footage of that DPRK news anchor? The woman with a face like the fist of a bare-knuckle prizefighter who plays with himself too much? Yikes...

< Message edited by Terminus -- 10/20/2006 7:32:15 PM >

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:33:11 PM

Nikademus

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I'll give the IL senator one perk though for having the guts to be honest about the reality of campaign funding. "to campaign, you need money.....and the person most likely or able to write that 2000$ check usually belongs to the upper 2% of the population vs. the single monther trying to raise a child in that other 98%. Problem is the person in the 2% bracket probably has a very different view on things vs. the single mom" Yeah...thats a dilemma.

He did take a stance saying that all campaign drives should be public funded and regulated. (i.e. no lobbies....special interests etc)

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:33:11 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

sadly, fence sitting is a political staple,

Well, I wasn't really referring to diplomacy as much as I was policy. I would define diplomacy as that weird language diplomats use to try and effect policy. The policies from China of late are two sided. As you said, they try and walk a tight rope. As a super power you learn quickly that there are too many people pushing you and pulling you to do that.

Put in another way, both Clinton and Bush tried to engage the Chinese in addressing the NK issue for years. Both failed to do that becasue China wanted to exert influence over NK, yet not interfere. It took quite the crisis to finally push them off the fence.

I think China had better learn that its not really possible to be a super power and save face at the same time. It would seem to be human nature to enjoy seeing the guy on top squirm a little.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:37:37 PM

Nikademus

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well as VSWG said, China just lost a serious round of Face thx to Kim. I'm sure they are pissed having been shown that ultimately they don't control NK.....but given that NK is majorly reliant on Chinese imports, ultimately they "do" have control....question is, will they use it.....and what will Kim do if he looses the or thinks he's losing one of the only props keeping his regime in power?

Hence the nuke scare again.....vicious circle.

quote:

Well, I wasn't really referring to diplomacy as much as I was policy

Maybe it's neive of me....but i see both, diplomacy and policy as equally crippled by fence sitting. The Diplomacy part is just prettier to listen too.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:44:47 PM

rtrapasso

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T3iF!!

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:47:06 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

T3iF!!

Seconded.

Hello Robert.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:48:15 PM

Nikademus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The problem is, Kim Jong Il isn't "acting" like a loon, he IS a loon. Have you seen the guy? Classic Napoleon complex...

Oh, and BTW, have you seen the footage of that DPRK news anchor? The woman with a face like the fist of a bare-knuckle prizefighter who plays with himself too much? Yikes...

maybe.....i seem to recall an article in the distant past that suggested that Kim was alot smarter than most outsiders think. Think, "poker" player. Then again, to stay in power as long as he has, you can't be completely nuts. I'm more disturbed by Iran's current "president" given some of his statements + the fact Iran is trying to build a bomb as fast as possible.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:50:11 PM

rtrapasso

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i must say, you guys sound a lot more optimistic than i do about this NK mess - i've been thinking for years there was going to be a really nasty war in Korea, and these developments do not look good at all.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:51:57 PM

rtrapasso

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The problem is, Kim Jong Il isn't "acting" like a loon, he IS a loon. Have you seen the guy? Classic Napoleon complex...

Oh, and BTW, have you seen the footage of that DPRK news anchor? The woman with a face like the fist of a bare-knuckle prizefighter who plays with himself too much? Yikes...

maybe.....i seem to recall an article in the distant past that suggested that Kim was alot smarter than most outsiders think. Think, "poker" player. Then again, to stay in power as long as he has, you can't be completely nuts. I'm more disturbed by Iran's current "president" given some of his statements + the fact Iran is trying to build a bomb as fast as possible.

Smart and crazy are not mutually exclusive.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:54:42 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The problem is, Kim Jong Il isn't "acting" like a loon, he IS a loon. Have you seen the guy? Classic Napoleon complex...

Oh, and BTW, have you seen the footage of that DPRK news anchor? The woman with a face like the fist of a bare-knuckle prizefighter who plays with himself too much? Yikes...

maybe.....i seem to recall an article in the distant past that suggested that Kim was alot smarter than most outsiders think. Think, "poker" player. Then again, to stay in power as long as he has, you can't be completely nuts. I'm more disturbed by Iran's current "president" given some of his statements + the fact Iran is trying to build a bomb as fast as possible.

Who was standing beside Kim Jong Il during the tests. A most troubling incident.

I also saw an article once that suggested that he was mentally ill and it was a result of NK elite marrying too closely. I don't know how valid that article was.

But then again if mental illness exlcuded leaders from office I think there would be many vacant positions.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 7:55:59 PM

niceguy2005

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quote:

ORIGINAL: rtrapasso

i must say, you guys sound a lot more optimistic than i do about this NK mess - i've been thinking for years there was going to be a really nasty war in Korea, and these developments do not look good at all.

We will see, but NK has a long history of saying one thing and doing another. THe Chinese may yet be surprised.

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RE: The Thread!!! - 10/20/2006 8:04:33 PM

Nikademus

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maybe. They already had a falling out with Vietnam back in the past which, IIRC came to blows for a bit. I think ultimately they'll exert subtler methods here given NK's economic dependancy.

Then again, maybe the whole thing will blow up and we'll have Round IV on the Pensinula

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