RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go?

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/15/2006 8:53:03 PM

Afrika Korps

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From: Rhode Island
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Yes, Col. Blitz...I was just thinking the same thing:

The ability for fortifications to "load/unload" units. Especially caves, etc. If arty get better/tuned up, then I think prepared positions should allow for unit to hide in their bunkers/caves until the barrage is over...you know, like what really happened?

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 12:18:35 AM

FlashfyreSP

Posts: 1193
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From: Combat Information Center
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Afrika Korps

Yes, Col. Blitz...I was just thinking the same thing:

The ability for fortifications to "load/unload" units. Especially caves, etc. If arty get better/tuned up, then I think prepared positions should allow for unit to hide in their bunkers/caves until the barrage is over...you know, like what really happened?

Most fortifications were protections for emplaced weaponry, not as shelter bunkers. These are available in the Norway OOB as designer units; they have no weapons but do have a Carrying Capacity. Classed as APC-types, they don't 'unload' their passengers at the first hit. Unfortunately, these units are not readily available during most generated games, because you cannot change the date to access them (they are only available Dec 1949).

I wouldn't want to see all forts gain a Carry Capacity, as that would not be realistic for their purpose, which was to protect the weapons and crews assigned to them from harm.

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Post #: 62

RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 1:20:31 AM

KG Erwin

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I gotta reinforce Flashfyre's point. In the Pacific Theater, the value of fortifications was in protecting the gun crews. Any crew member foolish enough to exit his cave or bunker would find himself quickly shot or burnt to death.

Now, there's nothing to prevent a player from stacking an infantry unit in that hex, as an ambush force, but they should NOT receive the benefits of the fortification. I think it'd be better to put the "bushwhackers" BEHIND that bunker. **Suplise!

**

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Post #: 63

RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 2:53:24 AM

Afrika Korps

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From: Rhode Island
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I disagree 100% with both of you. Caves and bunkers were important shelters during pre-landing arty attacks -- everything I have read bears this out. How else was the IJA able to put up such a strong defense? Everything I have read states that IJA units took shelter in bunkers, caves, tunnels during the pre-landing naval bombardment, and emerged after to take up their prepared positions (when possible and when available).

Now, some forts were NOT used for shelter, only guns...fine, no problem. But in my (limited) spwaw experience, there is no way to protect your squads from arty as was done historically in *some* battles. I understand the wish to avoid something that some might exploit in a *gamey* fashion, but let us not throw out the baby with the bathwater here.

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 4:19:09 AM

Goblin

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There is a difference between a defensive fortification and a personnel bunker/shelter. While they were often connected with tunnels, they are not the same. A Gun Casement in the game represents the actual fighting part of a defensive complex, and did not/would not hold a company of infantry besides its fighting crew. I will agree with the cave holding more men though. The easiest way around this is to be able to purchase personnel bunkers (as in H2H), representing the dugouts/bunkers, etc that could shelter infantry in an artillery attack. By placing them near the fighting emplacements, you are simulating casements, dugouts, bunkers, underground shelters, barracks, whatever.

Another example is a Log Rifle Pit. This is a covered pit, already assumed to be housing some infantry (thus, it has weapons; the infantry fire theirs). It would make no sense to have the infantry squad already in it (i.e. its crew), and then be able to put another squad into it.

Goblin

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 4:20:51 AM

Goblin

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The shelters currently in the game (the ones that can 'load' infantry) should have their purchase date switched to the earliest possible date in the game, and made available for purchase in one of the OOB's (Norway, Czech).

Goblin

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Post #: 66

RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 4:47:53 AM

Afrika Korps

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Sounds good to me.

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 6:45:32 AM

FlashfyreSP

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

The shelters currently in the game (the ones that can 'load' infantry) should have their purchase date switched to the earliest possible date in the game, and made available for purchase in one of the OOB's (Norway, Czech).

Goblin

The units in the Norway OOB are set for Dec 1949; in the next revision to the MultiMod, we will be changing the dates for some of these units, removing them from the realm of 'designer only' and making them available for purchase during random/PBEM games. Right now, I have them at January 1949-1949, simply to make it easier for designers to access them. However, it sounds like there is interest in having these available throughout the game's timeframe (1930-1949); we will have to look into doing this.

Keep in mind that all the units currently in the Norway OOB are unarmed units; if bought during a game, they will cost points because of their defensive benefits, but will not be able to defend themselves. These are the Bomb Shelter, House/Garage, Sewer, Cellar, Bunker, Casemate, Blockhouse, and Dugout.

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 9:51:33 AM

Colonel von Blitz

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

The easiest way around this is to be able to purchase personnel bunkers (as in H2H), representing the dugouts/bunkers, etc that could shelter infantry in an artillery attack. By placing them near the fighting emplacements, you are simulating casements, dugouts, bunkers, underground shelters, barracks, whatever.

And that's exactly what I did in my own set of OOBs. Gun casemates, MG bunkers etc don't have carry capacity, I have special shelters for this...to be more accurate, I made those shelter units in Norway OOB available and I also refined some of the icons IIRC.

quote:

Another example is a Log Rifle Pit. This is a covered pit, already assumed to be housing some infantry (thus, it has weapons; the infantry fire theirs). It would make no sense to have the infantry squad already in it (i.e. its crew), and then be able to put another squad into it.

Good point, and that's why I don't want to see a log rifle pit having a carry capacity. BUT, the combat value of rifle pit is severely diminished by the fact that you cannot pop out a rifle squad but only a crew out of it. Check out the word 'useless' from a dictionary and there must be a picture of SPWaW crewmen

What do they do when the squad flees from a rifle pit, throw away their regular weapons and hand greandes and use only their sidearms? This is of course because crew is a generic unit in spwaw and every bunker/tank/vehicle/gun in countrys OOB uses this same unit, right? That's why you cannot have crews with different weapon loadouts. BUT what about giving those guys at least some weapons...like MP38/40s for germans and at least couple of grenades, that way they would have at least some combat value. That 'Misc Small Arms' is just ridiculous...

-Colonel von Blitz-

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 4:48:07 PM

Goblin

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My Crewmen get a free Recon patch for their uniforms...

Goblin

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 5:14:04 PM

Afrika Korps

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From: Rhode Island
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin

My Crewmen get a free Recon patch for their uniforms...

Goblin

LOL!

I agree with the crew thing...I suppose it is a limit of spwaw we will have to live with.

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Post #: 71

RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 8:23:04 PM

Puukkoo

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From: Sein�joki, Finland
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The target selection for air units has been brought up many times before. Again now. The game really miss a solid strafing run from a machine gun armed fighter. I'm thinking about battles at the frozen Gulf of Viipuri in 1940 when Soviet Infantry was crossing the gulf on open ice and Finnish Fokker XXI's attacked them. Rank after rank fell.

Another good addition might be a neutral side, for civilians and POW's.

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/16/2006 11:03:47 PM

Mau Fox

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Hey Puukkoo!

Well, don't forget that we are talking about WWII era, thus no electronic gadgets onto aircrafts.
We have lots of WWII reports about friendly planes that wiped out entire columns due to pilots mistakes.

Dust, rain, sun, smoke et al could force a pilot to do a carnage ... on the wrong side.

Personally I have had a few "problems" with aircraft in this game ...

but I am fine with this. So I wouldn't change this one.

About your example I guess that this would be the perfect mission for a pilot. A wide open frozen expanse with no friendly units in the neighborod ... it sounds like stealing candies to a child.

About a dedicated Oob for civilians or PoW's this would be great. Adding civilian vehicles, tractors, fishing ships and even animals (cows or sheeps) would be really a fine add to this game. But I am talking from the Designer's side.
I guess that it would be difficult for the AI managing a neutral third party.

Ciao!

Mau.

< Message edited by Mau Fox -- 2/16/2006 11:32:00 PM >

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Post #: 73

RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/17/2006 8:55:28 AM

Colonel von Blitz

Posts: 262
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: Espoo, Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Goblin
My Crewmen get a free Recon patch for their uniforms...

Well, that's something what my Crewmen also get: a free Recon patch. BUT, it just would nice if they had decent weapons

-Colonel von Blitz-

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/21/2006 12:04:10 AM

264rifle

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Probably too much work but how about changing the penetration with distance fall off to reflect different shell sizes.

75mm guns seem to be all right for the most part but the small caliber stuff seems to have too much penetration at the longer ranges. The big stuff seems not to carry their penetration ability quite as well as they should.

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/21/2006 8:31:44 AM

Colonel von Blitz

Posts: 262
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From: Espoo, Finland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: 264rifle
75mm guns seem to be all right for the most part but the small caliber stuff seems to have too much penetration at the longer ranges. The big stuff seems not to carry their penetration ability quite as well as they should.

I've noticed this also and I've always thought that this is because of the same equation to calculate penetration fall over distance is used for all weapons...dunno if this is really the case.

-Colonel von Blitz-

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Post #: 76

RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/21/2006 5:04:00 PM

FlashfyreSP

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Personally, I'd like to see some improvements on the 'designer side' of the game before spending a lot of time trying to bring more 'reality' into our cyber-battlefield. Why not improve some other areas first?

1. As many have said, more OOB slots. Particularly for Units and Formations. This would allow a redesign of them to accomodate many more varieties of units, rather than the usual '1 unit covers all' system that must be used now.
2. Adding a 'month' component to the End Date. It would alleviate the 'overlap' that you get with some model changes. Most useful with formations, allowing one TO&E to 'take over' another without having both appear in the Purchase Screens at the same time.
3. Increase the terrain types. Add code to allow more 'families' of terrain, ones that have the same benefits as the basic types but are different in appearance. For example, Bare Earth that is a 'Mixed' type, Underbrush that acts like 'Rough', or Soft Sand that is 'Swamp'-like in nature.
4. Fix the exisiting Terrain LOS problems: Level 0 Sand Dunes blocking LOS from higher elevations, high visibility allowing 'sight' through wooded hexes, inability to 'see' past Hedges, but able to 'see' past Stone Walls.
5. Add more Heights. Even a few would be nice. Level 4 & 5 Hills would make for better mountain maps.
6. Clean up the SHP files for Unit Icons. Too many potential SHP images not available to use, many that are available share hulls or turrets across different SHP files, more 2-part SHPs are needed.
7. Fix the 'switch' that prevents the Axis nations from using the Desert-set of SHP files for Unit Icons like the Allied nations can.
8. Create 'split' OOBs for some of the major nations. Germany, US, UK, Soviet for starters...Germany could split at the end of 1940, US at the end of 1943, Uk at the end of 1941, Soviet at the end of 1941. Also, split the two Spanish OOBs and use them for other groups. Beginning in 1939, they could switch to, say, the Waffen-SS (removing some units from the basic German OOB) and the Partisans, or something like that.
9. Add more 'clone' Unit Classes. For example, we only have one Anti-tank Gun class, not counting the SP-ATG; make a Heavy class for those big guns like the 88, 90, and 105. Add some more Platoon HQ types: esp. Engineer Plt Hq (same abilities as engineers), Commando Plt HQ (same as Special Forces), and Cavalry Plt HQ (same as cavalry). Others could include Company HQ or Light Flak (for MG-armed units).
10. Either add more Reinforcement positions, or improve the routine to allow the reinforcement aspect to be applied to the unit in its deploy hex. Very good for designers who want to 'force' the AI to make a broad-front attack with a large reinforcement group.

Well, that's enough for now.

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RE: Wish List, Where would you like to see SPWaW go? - 2/22/2006 2:23:08 AM

264rifle

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Flash, many of those items sound like very good proposals. Afew of them sound like sort of a bug fix. While fixing those that I call bugs (like line of sight issues) is a worthy goal I am not asking for total reality.

2 guns tested on the same day , at the same range, and with same lot of ammunition will not give identical results. I can live with and even enjoy a game with + or - 5% or so differences.

But, for one example, to have the German 50mm/L60 gun penetrating at 1000 yds in the game what it could only do at 500yds in real life seems a little odd.

second example. German 20mm guns. they used the same ammo. by lengthing range of the AA version it gets the same armour penetration at it's max range (how many hexes more????) than the tank gun gets at it's max range.

(in reply to FlashfyreSP)

Post #: 78

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