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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> Tech Support >> warping engineers, again

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warping engineers, again - 6/22/2006 4:10:46 PM

bstarr

Posts: 881
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Texas, by God!
Status: offline

When playing the computer, I still have these engineer fragments appearing all over the board. These fragments not only appear without transportation (I previously thought the comp was shipping them, but it is not), but they continue to grow without reaching a maximum, which leads me to believe that they are not actually growing, but being combined with other fragments that are being teleported to the same hex turn after turn. These fragments only appear for the computer's side. In fact, I can play the first several turns HtH with no problem, but the instant I switch playing against the AI the problem rears it's head. This problem appears in both WITP and WPO. My version of WITP has all sorts of CHS additions, but WPO has not been altered in the least. In fact, it's even in a separate folder.

I don't want to sound like a whiner, but this is a game stopper for me. I'm flattered at having my own bug (to my knowledge, no one else has this problem) but I really would like to get back to playing the game.
bs

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RE: warping engineers, again - 6/22/2006 4:53:54 PM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

When playing the computer, I still have these engineer fragments appearing all over the board. These fragments not only appear without transportation (I previously thought the comp was shipping them, but it is not), but they continue to grow without reaching a maximum, which leads me to believe that they are not actually growing, but being combined with other fragments that are being teleported to the same hex turn after turn. These fragments only appear for the computer's side. In fact, I can play the first several turns HtH with no problem, but the instant I switch playing against the AI the problem rears it's head. This problem appears in both WITP and WPO. My version of WITP has all sorts of CHS additions, but WPO has not been altered in the least. In fact, it's even in a separate folder.

I don't want to sound like a whiner, but this is a game stopper for me. I'm flattered at having my own bug (to my knowledge, no one else has this problem) but I really would like to get back to playing the game.
bs

Some questions/comments:

(1) Is the problem you're describing happening in WPO or WITP ?

(2) So far at least, I have not seen a code problem caused by any of the major supported mods (Nik, CHS), that not to say their won't be 50 tomorrow, but just that I haven't seen any so far. I would not assume the issue is mod related.

(3) Why are you starting out in h2h and then switching to Human vs AI ? Be aware that the AI is pre-programmed and will revert eventually, to its "plan" .. hence you are not really changing its "plan" by running the first few turns, just giving it a more difficult problem to solve in terms of achieving its pre-programmed objectives. Anyway, ceasing this (perhaps unique) aspect of your play process, might de-exacerabate the problem. One thing that causes fragments to appear at strange places is the loc of the command HQ (if it is 20+ hexes distant from the unit), this might be part of the problem. And perhaps the AI is also trying to bring fragments in at pre-progammed locs - I haven't looked at that aspect. But none of those would explain the "growth" penomena, though they might help with explaining the teleporting. The teleporting problems I have looked at have generally been enabled by divided and undividing units, at least that is the common element so far, though the examples we had prior to 1.8 were all fixed for 1.8.

(4) We now have 50+ work items on the plate for the next patch and we've reached our limit, thus just be aware that it will be some time (months) before we can release any changes for items not already on this list.

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Post #: 2

RE: warping engineers, again - 6/24/2006 3:47:32 PM

bstarr

Posts: 881
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Texas, by God!
Status: offline

quote:

(1) Is the problem you're describing happening in WPO or WITP ?

both.

quote:

(2) So far at least, I have not seen a code problem caused by any of the major supported mods (Nik, CHS), that not to say their won't be 50 tomorrow, but just that I haven't seen any so far. I would not assume the issue is mod related.

yeah, it can't be mod related. It happens in WPO stock games.

(

quote:

3) Why are you starting out in h2h and then switching to Human vs AI ? Be aware that the AI is pre-programmed and will revert eventually, to its "plan" .. hence you are not really changing its "plan" by running the first few turns, just giving it a more difficult problem to solve in terms of achieving its pre-programmed objectives. Anyway, ceasing this (perhaps unique) aspect of your play process, might de-exacerabate the problem. One thing that causes fragments to appear at strange places is the loc of the command HQ (if it is 20+ hexes distant from the unit), this might be part of the problem. And perhaps the AI is also trying to bring fragments in at pre-progammed locs - I haven't looked at that aspect. But none of those would explain the "growth" penomena, though they might help with explaining the teleporting. The teleporting problems I have looked at have generally been enabled by divided and undividing units, at least that is the common element so far, though the examples we had prior to 1.8 were all fixed for 1.8.

It's just a gaming preference. I make it harder on myself on the first two weeks, purposely kicking my own ass, so that the game has a higher degree of difficulty down the road. This is a red herring; I didn't play this way in my first WPO game and that was when I first noticed the problem.

quote:

(4) We now have 50+ work items on the plate for the next patch and we've reached our limit, thus just be aware that it will be some time (months) before we can release any changes for items not already on this list.

I figured it might be a while. That's okay, though.

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Post #: 3

RE: warping engineers, again - 6/24/2006 4:01:09 PM

bstarr

Posts: 881
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Texas, by God!
Status: offline

I have been expertimenting with my problem and may have stumbled on some useful info. I noticed that the computer is teleporting these engineer units to the places that demand engineers. If, while playing HtH, I send a unit to that location before I switch to vsJapan, the computer will not create a fragment unit there.

Also, as for the growth problem, I think the computer is repeatedly adding fragments at the same location and these frags are joining themselves together. That's why there's no apparent ceiling to the size of the fragment.

one odd thing I've noticed - The fragments often have a different command than the core unit.

< Message edited by bstarr -- 6/24/2006 4:02:14 PM >

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RE: warping engineers, again - 6/25/2006 4:37:59 PM

pry

Posts: 1410
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Overlooking Galveston Bay, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

When playing the computer, I still have these engineer fragments appearing all over the board. These fragments not only appear without transportation (I previously thought the comp was shipping them, but it is not), but they continue to grow without reaching a maximum, which leads me to believe that they are not actually growing, but being combined with other fragments that are being teleported to the same hex turn after turn. These fragments only appear for the computer's side. In fact, I can play the first several turns HtH with no problem, but the instant I switch playing against the AI the problem rears it's head. This problem appears in both WITP and WPO. My version of WITP has all sorts of CHS additions, but WPO has not been altered in the least. In fact, it's even in a separate folder.

I don't want to sound like a whiner, but this is a game stopper for me. I'm flattered at having my own bug (to my knowledge, no one else has this problem) but I really would like to get back to playing the game.
bs

Sorry to say this is not your own unique problem or even a problem at all from a design standpoint. This is in fact designed into the game as an "AI Cheat" to get the AI to develope bases. Its been there all along. The AI player routinly splits engineer units and scatters them around the map in order to jump start base building. We had a major issue back during testing where these "Engineer fragments" as you call them would split then the AI would ship a fragment back to the starting base recombine and in the process grow into monster sized units, the growth issue was addressed and corrected by either Mike or Gary can't remember which after all this time.

Bottom line this is not a bug... It's an effort to help the AI against a human player

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Post #: 5

RE: warping engineers, again - 6/25/2006 9:46:32 PM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline

Besides, we all know Scotty could fix anything.

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Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.

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Post #: 6

RE: warping engineers, again - 6/26/2006 5:31:37 PM

bstarr

Posts: 881
Joined: 8/1/2004
From: Texas, by God!
Status: offline

Pry,
Thanks. I kinda suspected this might be a cheat, but when the lil bastards kept growing it threw me for a loop. Since I've started playing again I haven't let a subunit grow into a monster (I always stopped and restarted as HtH), so if the growth issue was fixed recently I couldn't have known. I just saw that they were still there and figured it was still a problem. If they aren't growing, then there's no problem; hell, I'm all for any cheats that help the AI.
Thanks again,
bs

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Post #: 7

RE: warping engineers, again - 6/27/2006 2:23:09 PM

pry

Posts: 1410
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Overlooking Galveston Bay, Texas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bstarr

Pry,
Thanks. I kinda suspected this might be a cheat, but when the lil bastards kept growing it threw me for a loop. Since I've started playing again I haven't let a subunit grow into a monster (I always stopped and restarted as HtH), so if the growth issue was fixed recently I couldn't have known. I just saw that they were still there and figured it was still a problem. If they aren't growing, then there's no problem; hell, I'm all for any cheats that help the AI.
Thanks again,
bs

bstarr

Howdy

If you or anyone for that matter who is playing against the AI see one of these engineer sub units that grows into a mega engineer unit, we saw some grow to having 200+ engineers back in testing then by all means let Don or Joe know about it so they can look into it.

There was something similar going on with the Japanese CD units growning to huge sizes that was also worked on and hopefully fixed, but you know how it goes you fix something and it buggers up something else.

< Message edited by pry -- 6/27/2006 2:25:14 PM >

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