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Ground combat at Eniwetok

 
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Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/28/2006 8:06:59 PM   
Zecke


Posts: 1330
Joined: 1/15/2005
From: Hitoeton
Status: offline 		Can someone can give a explanation about this ground combat,, its a PBME game path 18.01,, No MODS,, and eniwetok is in japan hands, japan force are well supplied and rested,, but 1200 allied desembark.

If no explanation what i have to do to get rid of thouse 1200 allied troops with low loosings,, any ideas??

Thanks anyway





Ground combat at Eniwetok


Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 48352 troops, 465 guns, 7 vehicles, Assault Value =
1099

Defending force 1273 troops, 48 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 53

Japanese max assault: 1137 - adjusted assault: 1075

Allied max defense: 43 - adjusted defense: 2

Japanese assault odds: 537 to 1


Japanese ground losses:
756 casualties reported
Guns lost 24
Vehicles lost 2

Allied ground losses:
88 casualties reported
Guns lost 4


< Message edited by Zecke -- 7/28/2006 8:42:20 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/28/2006 8:40:54 PM   
greg_slith


Posts: 490
Joined: 9/14/2004
Status: offline 		Bad dice rolls I've had similar results with better odds. I usually let the troops rest a couple of days, bombard by land-sea-air if possible and then hit them again.

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 2
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/28/2006 8:43:56 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline 		Troops with their back to the wall will fight harder. Keep going they will surrender soon.

_____________________________


Artwork graciously provided by Dixie

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 3
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/28/2006 11:42:03 PM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline 		Don't send a herd of lemmings to do the job that one division can do;
ex. I have a Jap Division (104th) cut off in Pakhoi; 7 Chinese Corps there.
if I attack with all of them, they kill 600 Japanese and take similar losses.
If I use just the 3 lowest disrupted ones and bombard with the rest, IJA loses 500 and I lose none.

This Japanese Division has been isolated for approximately 30 days and it should soon succumb, as it has launched one banzai the other day, indicating to me that the end is nigh.

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to niceguy2005)
Post #: 4
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/28/2006 11:53:21 PM   
Titanwarrior89


Posts: 3283
Joined: 8/28/2003
From: arkansas
Status: offline 		That does suck!

_____________________________

"Before Guadalcanal the enemy advanced at his pleasure. After Guadalcanal, he retreated at ours".

"Mama, There's Rabbits in the Garden"

(in reply to Zecke)
Post #: 5
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/29/2006 1:34:06 AM   
Yava


Posts: 2129
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Poland/Kolobrzeg
Status: offline 		It sure does!

_____________________________


Art by Dixie.

(in reply to Titanwarrior89)
Post #: 6
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/29/2006 1:04:48 PM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tabpub

Don't send a herd of lemmings to do the job that one division can do;
ex. I have a Jap Division (104th) cut off in Pakhoi; 7 Chinese Corps there.
if I attack with all of them, they kill 600 Japanese and take similar losses.
If I use just the 3 lowest disrupted ones and bombard with the rest, IJA loses 500 and I lose none.

This Japanese Division has been isolated for approximately 30 days and it should soon succumb, as it has launched one banzai the other day, indicating to me that the end is nigh.

This just in from the China desk.........
06/09/43
Ground combat at Pakhoi
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 71218 troops, 455 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2061
Defending force 7206 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7
Allied max assault: 908 - adjusted assault: 1658
Japanese max defense: 3 - adjusted defense: 5
Allied assault odds: 331 to 1
Japanese ground losses:
18768 casualties reported
Guns lost 66

Notice the bolded figures; only commited 1/2 of the available force and the Japanese 104th Division is NO more.
Looking back on the combat record for Pakhoi, the Chinese forces moved into the hex on May 9th, exactly one month ago, beginning the bombardment phase of the attack. Due to our "house rule" of 50 prep points to attack a base hex in china, the first assault was on the 23rd of May with this result:

05/23/43
Ground combat at Pakhoi
Allied Deliberate attack
Attacking force 53437 troops, 357 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1672
Defending force 21283 troops, 122 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 379
Allied max assault: 338 - adjusted assault: 516
Japanese max defense: 213 - adjusted defense: 37
Allied assault odds: 13 to 1 (fort level 0)
Allied forces CAPTURE Pakhoi base !!!
Japanese ground losses:
98 casualties reported
Guns lost 5
Allied ground losses:
310 casualties reported
Guns lost 8

The intial attack was by one Chinese Corps; the Japanese division was in a bad way already, due to low supply after it was ejected from Nanning earlier in the month and had retreated to Pakhoi. It took about 2 weeks of ground combat to finish her off in the hinterland, but this was not excessive in my book.

_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 7
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/29/2006 4:15:53 PM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		these absurd was reported so many times I can't count
it breaks my PBEM in critical chinase areas
but never there was any sign from developers that they take a look at it
so you have to asuume it is working as designed
bullshit IMO
i'm sure you will get few weird comments as well



_____________________________


(in reply to tabpub)
Post #: 8
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/29/2006 5:09:07 PM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline 		You see same kind of "weird" odds when assaulting Japanese garrisons in an Atoll but as Sneer said the ground combat system is not officially broken!  ...hopefully Matrix will tune the whole ground combat system in future patches but I would not get my hopes up.

Also I feel there should be stacking limits concerning ground troops garrisoning an Atoll base

< Message edited by aztez -- 7/29/2006 5:10:43 PM >

(in reply to Sneer)
Post #: 9
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/29/2006 5:40:32 PM   
Sneer


Posts: 2654
Joined: 10/29/2003
Status: offline 		as long as maximum for  assault forces - it is impossible to land 8 inf div on atoll too :-)

_____________________________


(in reply to aztez)
Post #: 10
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/29/2006 5:48:36 PM   
aztez

 

Posts: 4031
Joined: 2/26/2005
From: Finland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sneer

as long as maximum for  assault forces - it is impossible to land 8 inf div on atoll too :-)


I do agree but it should also be impossible garrison an Atoll with several divisions. Also I feel that the fortifications should limited to max. 5 level.

(in reply to Sneer)
Post #: 11
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/29/2006 9:15:52 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline 		My personal opinion.  The biggest problem with ground combat is that no one has been able to adequately explain how it works to the players.  (For example, its been two years and only now are some of us beginning to understand that casualties has nothing to do with the displayed odds.)  So everyone falls back on the standard "mass your forces" and gets upset and confused when something as simple and logical as that doesn't work.

I think it also doesn't help that we have trouble adjusting to the time scale.  We all want to win NOW!  But realistically it should take time.

_____________________________

This game does not have a learning curve. It has a learning cliff.

"Bomb early, bomb often, bomb everything." - Niceguy

Any bugs I report are always straight stock games.


(in reply to aztez)
Post #: 12
RE: Ground combat at Eniwetok - 7/30/2006 12:39:11 AM   
tabpub


Posts: 1019
Joined: 8/10/2003
From: The Greater Chicagoland Area
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sneer

these absurd was reported so many times I can't count
it breaks my PBEM in critical chinase areas
but never there was any sign from developers that they take a look at it
so you have to asuume it is working as designed
bullshit IMO
i'm sure you will get few weird comments as well




I think that the language barrier is coming down here;
What you refer to as absurd, I see as reasonable; it took 2 weeks of fighting to destroy a division of troops using Chinese forces.
If I was using equivilent USA or USM forces with their higher firepower and associated artillery brigades in support it would have been quicker.

as Dtravel mentioned:
quote:

I think it also doesn't help that we have trouble adjusting to the time scale. We all want to win NOW! But realistically it should take time.


I had the same type of results when reducing the Rangoon garrison:
Enter town on day 1; take town on day 8; finish off garrison on day 17.
I have all the CRs done up in a chronological order if anyone would care to see them.

Bueller? Anyone?

Oh, and trust me, I don't claim infallibility or anything here. In this same campaign, my over aggressive nature has gotten 2 Chinese Corps trapped behind the lines myself. Though, they had plenty of supplies with them, so until they lose them I hope that they acquit themselves well for a week or so and take some Nihonjin with them before they succumb to the enemy.


_____________________________

Sing to the tune of "Man on the Flying Trapeze"
..Oh! We fly o'er the treetops with inches to spare,
There's smoke in the cockpit and gray in my hair.
The tracers look fine as a strafin' we go.
But, brother, we're TOO God damn low...

(in reply to Sneer)
Post #: 13
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