Roads
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Joined: 12/14/2002
From: massachusetts
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ORIGINAL: Murat
quote:
ORIGINAL: Roads
And this isn't entirely true either. France can never force Spain into civil disoder.
[ 8.7 ] THE CIVIL DISORDER STEP: If, during any Economic Phase, a major power can collect no home nation manpower, that major power goes into "civil disorder" and that major power is permanently out of the game and all of its home nation forces are permanently eliminated from the map.
8.7.1: All conquered minor countries of the major power undergoing civil disorder pass to the control of the major power occupying the major power's capital.
8.7.2: Controlled minor free states of the major power undergoing civil disorder become neutral if no enemy forces control their capital. If a capital is controlled, their control passes to the major power occupying their capital.
8.7.3: Each of that major power's home nation provinces are ceded to the major power controlling the provincial capital. EXCEPTION: Where no major power controls the provincial capital, that province passes to the major power controlling the national capital. These provinces are now all considered to be ceded provinces.
8.7.4: If the forces of two or more major powers are placed to dispute claims to territory arising from civil disorder (ie., mixed forces occupy a capital city), the involved major powers may decide on control in any mutually agreeable manner, or, if unable to agree, may use competitive die rolls to determine the new controlling major power (the modifiers from 4.6.2 apply to these die rolls for disputed minor countries).
8.7.5: Each major power at war with the major power undergoing civil disorder gains 5 political points, the same as if the major power in civil disorder had surrendered unconditionally.
I do in fact know the Civil Disorder Rules. However,
-the civil disorder step only happens every three months, when there is an economic phase
-Spain can only go into civil disorder if all provincial capitals are occupied.
A minimally competent Spanish player can check every three months, during the peace phase to see if it is physically possible for all of his provincial capitals to fall in one move. If this is possible he immeidately sues for peace. Then...
4.4.2 SUING FOR PEACE: A major power wishing to "surrender" may "sue" for peace. Minor countries may not sue for peace, although peace can come through a "lapse" in a war (see 4.6.6),
4.4.2.1: A major power may not sue for peace to another major power that does not have forces within the suing home nation’s borders unless, at the same time, it sues for peace to all major powers with which it is at war.
4.4.2.2: When a major power sues for peace, the opponent must then offer a "formal peace," either a "conditional peace, " which must be accepted, or an 1 unconditional peace, which may be accepted only if the suing player desires. If desired, and several major powers are being sued for peace, have each player write down 'conditional' or 'unconditional' before revealing all the peace proposals simultaneously.
As you can see, once Spain sues for peace it is impossible for France to maintain a state of war. All she can do is force an unconditional surrender.
I stand my my original comment. France can never FORCE Spain into civil disoder. Any Spanish player who fails to sue for peace when all of his capitals can be occupied this month is simply incompetent.
You said:
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Again, you are counting on only being able to lose 3 provinces. Without that optional rule, Spain forcing civil disorder ends the game for Spain.
In one war France can only take 3 provinces from Spain, optional rule or no optional rule. Any other outcome is due to Spanish incompetence.
And while we're going over rules here's this:
4.4.6 EFFECTS OF PEACE: When two major powers make any type of peace, the following are always done:
4.4.6.1 PRISONER EXCHANGE: All surrendered factors and captured leaders are mutually exchanged. The exchanged factors are placed the same as reinforcements (see 5.2 and 5.3) during the next Reinforcement Phase. This is the only time prisoners are exchanged, although captured leaders may be returned at other times at the captor's option (see 10.6.3).
Which means that Spain will get back all of her surrendered garrisons when the war ends.
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