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Air Combat TF not moving...WHY?

 
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Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/17/2006 10:14:22 PM   
RAM

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 5/1/2000
From: Bilbao,Vizcaya,Spain
Status: offline 		ok, now I want to hear any possible explanation for "this".

Situation: 2 CV american Air Combat TF at 69.117 . KB detected some 5 hexes N-NW from Luganville. Reaction range: 0. Fuel Status OK (lexington is a bit low on fuel, but all escorts have plenty). Spruance is in Command.

AF TF receives orders to retire towards brisbane at full speed. Both home base and destination are set to that base.


Next combat phase the TF not only doesn't retire at full speed...it moves to 70 117 (I assume reaction move when reaction range was 0 ¿?¿?¿?¿?¿?) where the KB, which has moved into range, spanks the he11 out of it and sinks both carriers.


Now...what the f... happened here?...anyone?

< Message edited by RAM -- 8/17/2006 10:15:36 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/17/2006 10:38:58 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline 		Just because you tell them what you want them to do, it doesn't mean that they will. Your subordinates are officers, who are trained to use their initiative. Choosing a cautious cvtf commander can help but doesn't guarantee.

BTW. I know how you feel. Not too many cvtf commanders would go charging off at 2 to 5 odds. They should rate commanders like that as "insane" or "suicidal" instead of "aggressive".

< Message edited by anarchyintheuk -- 8/17/2006 10:47:13 PM >

(in reply to RAM)
Post #: 2
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/17/2006 10:44:14 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Yes, despite what the manual says ("TFs  with reaction range set to 0 will never react") an aggressive commander like Spruance might react to enemy carriers even if rr=0.

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RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/17/2006 10:47:15 PM   
RAM

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 5/1/2000
From: Bilbao,Vizcaya,Spain
Status: offline 		Well, the reaction range thing I can accept.

but how, in this earth, can a TF which has received orders to retire at full steam towards Brisbane doesn't even move in the night phase?...plenty of OP points left, decent fuel status (enough to reach Brisbane without refuelling at any point), and they don't move?...

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RAM

"Look at me! look at me!!!

Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"

(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 4
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/17/2006 10:56:31 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Because the decision to react is made before the night movement phase:

quote:

Manual:

Night Resolution Phase – The system processes all orders, which are resolved over a
night period of 12 hours.


a) Load/Unload - Transport Task Forces load and unload cargos. (Section 6.1.19)
b) Coastwatcher Check and Trigger Reactions - Coastwatchers attempt to sight
enemy Task Forces. Task Forces that have “React to Enemy” movement orders this
turn receive their new destinations. (Section 8.7)
c) Auto Minesweeping - Automated Minesweeping Task Forces (those set on computer
control) conduct minesweeping operations. (Section 6.1.26)
d) Naval Movement - Task Forces move towards their destinations. Ships expend
endurance points, check for system damage due to being at sea, and conduct mine
warfare operations (including being attacked by mines). (Section 6.1.26.4)


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Post #: 5
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/17/2006 11:17:48 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
Joined: 9/4/2002
From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I can tell my fleet that you must fly your missions at 16,000' but I can't keep my CVs from disobeying orders and committing suicide.

-F-

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Post #: 6
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/17/2006 11:20:16 PM   
dtravel


Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: VSWG

Because the decision to react is made before the night movement phase:

quote:

Manual:

Night Resolution Phase – The system processes all orders, which are resolved over a
night period of 12 hours.


a) Load/Unload - Transport Task Forces load and unload cargos. (Section 6.1.19)
b) Coastwatcher Check and Trigger Reactions - Coastwatchers attempt to sight
enemy Task Forces. Task Forces that have “React to Enemy” movement orders this
turn receive their new destinations. (Section 8.7)
c) Auto Minesweeping - Automated Minesweeping Task Forces (those set on computer
control) conduct minesweeping operations. (Section 6.1.26)
d) Naval Movement - Task Forces move towards their destinations. Ships expend
endurance points, check for system damage due to being at sea, and conduct mine
warfare operations (including being attacked by mines). (Section 6.1.26.4)




Which also means that they are reacting to enemy ships that they not only haven't spotted, but ships that they physically can't spot.

You will also note that they react not by heading towards where the enemy ships are but by heading towards where they will be 12 to 24 hours later. Which can be up to 500 miles different.

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(in reply to VSWG)
Post #: 7
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/17/2006 11:37:39 PM   
VSWG


Posts: 3432
Joined: 5/31/2006
From: Germany
Status: offline 		This would be surreal.

Maybe is should be read as Coastwatcher "Check and Trigger Reactions" instead of "Coastwatcher Check" and "Trigger Reactions" (only reactions caused by coastwatcher sightings happen in this phase).




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Post #: 8
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/18/2006 12:06:09 AM   
Sonny

 

Posts: 2008
Joined: 4/3/2002
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RAM

Well, the reaction range thing I can accept.

but how, in this earth, can a TF which has received orders to retire at full steam towards Brisbane doesn't even move in the night phase?...plenty of OP points left, decent fuel status (enough to reach Brisbane without refuelling at any point), and they don't move?...


Maybe they retired at full speed then in the morning movement came back at full speed (thus ending in the same hex they started in) and then reacted one hex toward the spotted enemy TF.

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Post #: 9
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/18/2006 4:39:02 AM   
tsimmonds


Posts: 5498
Joined: 2/6/2004
From: astride Mason and Dixon's Line
Status: offline 		The only reliable way to get an ACTF to do what you want it to do, is to set it to follow an SCTF with an aggressive leader and reaction=0; send that SCTF to where you want the ACTF to be.

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Post #: 10
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/18/2006 6:54:17 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		There is a separate CV reaction move which is completely different from "reaction range". This occurs when enemy CV TFs are close to being within range of a CV TFs aircraft; the CV TF with an aggressive leader will close the range one hex in order to make sure that its aircraft will reach the enemy. This reaction has been in the game since the beginning (UV).

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fair winds,
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(in reply to tsimmonds)
Post #: 11
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/18/2006 9:13:25 AM   
Vladd


Posts: 69
Joined: 10/24/2004
Status: offline 		Wasn't there something about changing the TF mission to something other than air combat to guarantee retirement? Does cap still fly in that circumstance?



(in reply to bradfordkay)
Post #: 12
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/18/2006 10:48:09 AM   
Jim D Burns


Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RAM
but how, in this earth, can a TF which has received orders to retire at full steam towards Brisbane doesn't even move in the night phase


Remember that Iranian airliner shot down by a US ship in the gulf about 10 years ago. If I remember it right the Capt. had been ordered at least twice to retire south but instead chased those gunboats north and in the end launched the missile that downed the airliner.

I guarantee some US Admiral was screaming about the fact he had ordered his ship to retire and it didn’t. Aggressive commanders can be a pain in the arse sometimes.

Jim


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Post #: 13
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/18/2006 4:11:53 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Send me the file for turn before reaction. MNeer1@woh.rr.com. I can't hazzard a quess without seeing the file.

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 14
RE: Air Combat TF not moving...WHY? - 8/19/2006 2:00:55 PM   
RAM

 

Posts: 402
Joined: 5/1/2000
From: Bilbao,Vizcaya,Spain
Status: offline 		unfortunately we moved on in our game, so I don't have the savegame anymore...I'll ask my opponent if he still has a file of that turn, but other than that...

_____________________________

RAM

"Look at me! look at me!!!

Not like that! NOT LIKE THAT!!!"

(in reply to mogami)
Post #: 15
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