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RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 6:46:01 AM

Procrustes

Posts: 633
Joined: 3/30/2003
From: Upstate
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Well i like BoardGames but they need to follow the following criteria:

- Being so designed that they can be completed in one Evning
- Have not to many Counters
- Not Complicated Rules
- Have a good Editorial Level
- Map should fit on Table

As for now the only games fallowing this Criteria are the GMT Games I played quite a few of those and those games are really fun to play

Hi,

I mentioned that I subscribe to the Strategy & Tactics magazine that Descision Games (the people who put out this monster) publishes. Each issue comes with a boardgame (folded map, actually). They tend to be small and fit the criteria you describe. It's not a cheap subscription, but there are seven issues a year, a wide variety of topics, and the magazine is good reading, too (military history.)

Best,

P.

Disclosure - I have no connection to DG other than being a customer.

(in reply to Przemcio231)

Post #: 121

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 8:46:32 AM

jwilkerson

Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Well i like BoardGames but they need to follow the following criteria:

- Being so designed that they can be completed in one Evning
- Have not to many Counters
- Not Complicated Rules
- Have a good Editorial Level
- Map should fit on Table

As for now the only games fallowing this Criteria are the GMT Games�I played quite a few of those and those games are really fun to play

Well WITP would "almost" meet your criteria. I think you could set it up in one evening, if ... you have about 6 experienced players on the set up team

And I think it has less then 10,000 counters .. so not too many

And the rules are rated "4" on a scale of 1 to 5 .. so not too complicated ...

The Editorial level might be high (i.e. written in one language).

The map does fit on a table, of course, provided the table is an 8'x8'

So, I guess we're in business !!!

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Post #: 122

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 9:50:32 AM

Przemcio231

Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline

quote:

B-35 system was/is good and simple... has some bugs but still is good, Waterloo is also a good game and still very complex... suitable for 4 players in my opinion, at least I used to play that way... never really had a chance to play Tanenberg...

Well as for B-35 system its to many chart's , tables lots of comparing in this firefight stuff , As for Ardeny 1944 system this one sucked a big time the only one suffering losses was the attacker as the defender was loseing something when he got isolated

I never played their September 1939 system... as for Waterloo the rules weren't so complex its just that this game is so time consuming... The most fun to play of the series for me was "Desert Rat's"

and "Tannenberg" with its HQ Activation Rule the Russians have great advantage but their Commanders are passive or neutral at best there is one Active in Samsonov Army and it may happen that most off your forces will not move becouse the General decided he want's to weait

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Post #: 123

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 12:14:57 PM

Yava

Posts: 2129
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Poland/Kolobrzeg
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

My favourite of Dragon series was Ardeny 1944. Ive also have Wiedeń 1693, Grunwald 1410 and Kircholm 1605. Since I am fan of XX century wars, I didn't like those three titles.

I've still got(and sometimes play)
Ardeny 1944
Grunwald 1410
Kreta 1941
Waterloo 1815
Wieden 1693
Bzura 1939
Bagration 1944
Bitwy II Wojny Światowej
Arnhem 1944
Kasserine 1943
Szczury Pustyni
and
Wojny Napoleońskie

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Post #: 124

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 12:16:10 PM

Yava

Posts: 2129
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Poland/Kolobrzeg
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

quote:

B-35 system was/is good and simple... has some bugs but still is good, Waterloo is also a good game and still very complex... suitable for 4 players in my opinion, at least I used to play that way... never really had a chance to play Tanenberg...

Well as for B-35 system its to many chart's , tables lots of comparing in this firefight stuff , As for Ardeny 1944 system this one sucked a big time the only one suffering losses was the attacker as the defender was loseing something when he got isolated I never played their September 1939 system... as for Waterloo the rules weren't so complex its just that this game is so time consuming... The most fun to play of the series for me was "Desert Rat's" and "Tannenberg" with its HQ Activation Rule the Russians have great advantage but their Commanders are passive or neutral at best there is one Active in Samsonov Army and it may happen that most off your forces will not move becouse the General decided he want's to weait

Still B-35 system is rather easy and fast for someone who plays.

To all you non Polish people who don't know about what games were talking about... here

< Message edited by Yava -- 9/16/2006 12:27:26 PM >

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Post #: 125

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 1:19:23 PM

Przemcio231

Posts: 1901
Joined: 10/11/2005
From: Warsaw,Poland,EU:)
Status: offline

Yes its easy as for this if its fast well not always

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Post #: 126

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 1:35:04 PM

wdolson

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'd say it comes down to the fact that the computer is willing and able to play whenever you want, 100% of the time. Not so for a meatbag opponent.

I'm sorry, but I think time has gotten away from a monster paper game like Decision Games WitP. And $420?!?!?!? Come on!

I'm tempted for the $420 monster. I would most likely play it solitare as some others have said.

I grew up with the old paper variety war games. My father gave me Avalon Hill's Luftwaffe in 1971. Through my teenage years, I mostly just played with a friend or two. I went to a few gaming conventions, but the intense competiveness from some players put me off.

Eventually we grew up and went off to college. I haven't even seen my main war gaming friend in nearly 20 years. I don't know what happened to him, though they named a hurricane after him recently.

I kept all my old games, even though I haven't played them for years. I bought up a bunch of them when Avalon Hill got bought out. I've never played any of them.

Like you, I play computer games these days because the computer it always willing to play. It doesn't have a complex schedule that needs to be negotiated. I have enough trouble getting time for me to play.

I do miss the social aspects of playing the old board games. It's a hobby that has grown much smaller since computer games got more sophisticated and the new gamers cut their teeth on computer games. The reasons are good ones. I share many of them. I still miss it. One of the downsides of growing older and technology moving ahead.

Bill

(in reply to Terminus)

Post #: 127

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 1:42:18 PM

Terminus

Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
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I never bought that many paper wargames, mostly because of difficulty finding people to play, but I've got a few, and I've never really wanted to get rid of them, so they're in my closet somewhere.

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Post #: 128

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 3:40:10 PM

BrucePowers

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Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

I agree that, with the board games, there was more social interaction. I belonged to the conflict simulation society at my college. Our gaming night was Sunday. It was a lot of fun. This forum and PBEMs have brought a lot of that back for me. I started posting regularly on the forum in May. I had not been able to have these kind of war game discussions in years.

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Post #: 129

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 9:43:34 PM

BB56

Posts: 76
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Mountlake Terrace WA
Status: offline

Just out of curiosity, did the game come with any counter trays? The last few games I bought (quite a while ago) either didn't come with any trays at all, or not enough to properly store the counters.

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Post #: 130

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/16/2006 11:37:54 PM

wworld7

Posts: 1727
Joined: 2/25/2003
From: The Nutmeg State
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BB56

Just out of curiosity, did the game come with any counter trays? The last few games I bought (quite a while ago) either didn't come with any trays at all, or not enough to properly store the counters.

Counter trays for 9K counters, I don't hink so. Just picture the BOX and the added shipping costs!

Flipper

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Post #: 131

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/17/2006 12:08:17 AM

Ron Saueracker

Posts: 12121
Joined: 1/28/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada OR Zakynthos Island, Greece
Status: offline

I used to buy those mini shelving/drawer units...counter trays were always a pain in the keester.

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Post #: 132

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/17/2006 12:39:26 AM

BrucePowers

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I have all the counters for SPIs War in the Pacific in little plastic bags...lots of them.

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Post #: 133

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/17/2006 3:48:46 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

Little plastic bags, band-aid boxes (the metal ones), anything we could scrounge up.

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Post #: 134

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/17/2006 7:07:56 AM

Jim D Burns

Posts: 4013
Joined: 2/25/2002
From: Salida, CA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BB56

Just out of curiosity, did the game come with any counter trays? The last few games I bought (quite a while ago) either didn't come with any trays at all, or not enough to properly store the counters.

The game comes with about 50-100 (just a guess I haven't counted them) zip-lock bags. Not a perfect solution but workable if you don't have anything better.

Jim

< Message edited by Jim D Burns -- 9/17/2006 7:10:18 AM >

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Post #: 135

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/17/2006 7:15:10 PM

BrucePowers

Posts: 12094
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Little plastic bags, band-aid boxes (the metal ones), anything we could scrounge up.

I had not thought of band aid boxes. That's a good one.

< Message edited by BrucePowers -- 9/17/2006 7:18:02 PM >

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Post #: 136

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/19/2006 2:27:30 AM

BB56

Posts: 76
Joined: 4/26/2002
From: Mountlake Terrace WA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

quote:

ORIGINAL: BB56

Just out of curiosity, did the game come with any counter trays? The last few games I bought (quite a while ago) either didn't come with any trays at all, or not enough to properly store the counters.

The game comes with about 50-100 (just a guess I haven't counted them) zip-lock bags. Not a perfect solution but workable if you don't have anything better.

Jim

That's a lot of bags to keep track of. I guess you'll have to label each of them so that you know what is in them - Allied CV's, Jap CV's, Marines, etc. I'd love to have this game, if only to fondle the counters and gawk at the maps, but I can't justify the cost right now.

(in reply to Jim D Burns)

Post #: 137

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/19/2006 2:31:47 AM

Bill Durrant

Posts: 967
Joined: 9/16/2003
From: Oxfordshire
Status: offline

Speak to any of the ASL guys - I think they kept a company called Plano (sp?) in business!

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Post #: 138

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/19/2006 2:45:23 PM

RevRick

Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline

Along with the bass fishers...
Try sewing boxes for the counters. They take up a bit more room, but they hold a whole lot more. We had the oulde game set up in the War Room down in the basement. Air conditioned, no cats, dogs or gerbils, but also not a lot of room - about the size of CIC on a non-FRAMd Fletcher.

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Post #: 139

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/19/2006 6:37:32 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Yava

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Games that can be completed in one or two evening sucks!!!

Why to ever play them if you realized that you are finishing it, even if you just started.

Try playing Waterloo from Dragon... One evening of setting up...

Ooh, more details please? Dragon who?

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Post #: 140

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/19/2006 6:52:39 PM

captskillet

Posts: 2493
Joined: 3/1/2003
From: Louisiana & the 2007 Nat Champ LSU Fightin' Tigers
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I remember The Longest Day full monty took awhile to set up and we ended up setting it up on my buddy's floor because his table with both leaves put in was still not big enough for all the map boards to fit on......... we used the tackle box system also ......had 2 Plano tackle boxes full o' counters for this baby!!!!

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Post #: 141

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/19/2006 7:05:40 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: BB56

Just out of curiosity, did the game come with any counter trays? The last few games I bought (quite a while ago) either didn't come with any trays at all, or not enough to properly store the counters.

The game came with a bag ful of small ziplock bags. Fortunately I bought a boatload of counter trays from The Gamers years ago. I expect to use 6-7 for the counters and put the markers in some of the bags.

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Post #: 142

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/19/2006 7:07:37 PM

Yava

Posts: 2129
Joined: 7/21/2006
From: Poland/Kolobrzeg
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yava

quote:

ORIGINAL: Monter_Trismegistos

Games that can be completed in one or two evening sucks!!!

Why to ever play them if you realized that you are finishing it, even if you just started.

Try playing Waterloo from Dragon... One evening of setting up...

Ooh, more details please? Dragon who?

It was a publisher...
http://www.taktykaistrategia.pl/?lang=english

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Post #: 143

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/19/2006 7:35:49 PM

panda124c

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: captskillet

I remember The Longest Day full monty took awhile to set up and we ended up setting it up on my buddy's floor because his table with both leaves put in was still not big enough for all the map boards to fit on......... we used the tackle box system also ......had 2 Plano tackle boxes full o' counters for this baby!!!!

Drang nach Osten

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Post #: 144

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/21/2006 3:26:26 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

OMG, my copy of this monster arrived today, and I'm both excited and overwhelmed!

The seven strategic game maps are huge. The manual says they are each 22" by 28", but they seem more like 22 by 35 to me. I actually might have the table space to fit them all, but jeesh! Interestingly, the "size" of hexes varies from 60 to 40 nautical miles, depending on the latitude.

In addition, there are two dozen two-sided full-color tactical map sheets of pretty much every island in the theater. That's 45+ large pages of maps, and most such pages hold tactical maps of several islands, so we're talking about maybe a couple hundred tactical maps. The designer notes say that initially they thought they might just issue the most "likely" islands and make others available for download, but ultimately they just gave 'em all to us. Some do seem more "likely": I'm looking forward to setting up on Singapore, for example. It's especially cool to have maps of atolls and the like. The tactical maps vary in scale from 1 mile/hex up to 10 or maybe more miles/hex. I can't wait to see how they play out.

Then there are the 15 or 20 sheets of colorful two-sided counters. On top of that, there are two rulebooks; two chart books; a book of optional rules and play examples; a book of scenarios; 20 "displays", including tactical naval-air display, a tactical surface encounter display, and various displays for TF composition, leaders, reinforcements, submarines, Allied global movement, etc. I guess the combat result tables are in the chart books somewhere. There's a turn chart with weather, wind direction, and other details. (Wind direction!) The game ships with 2 six-sided die and two 10-sided die.

My plan is to try this introductory Midway scenario first. That I have space for. But space is a consideration for the strategic map. Can you explain to me the designers' suggestions for finding space to play? The designers say "[t]he most efficient and workable solution for the maps is to wall-mount them on a metallic surface (galvanized sheet metal, for example). Then use magnetic counter-holders for all units and markers." Are they suggesting mounting these maps vertically, on a wall, and playing standing up with magnets attached to each counter? Is that what they mean by "wall-mount"?

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Post #: 145

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/21/2006 3:52:31 AM

dtravel

Posts: 4533
Joined: 7/7/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius
My plan is to try this introductory Midway scenario first. That I have space for. But space is a consideration for the strategic map. Can you explain to me the designers' suggestions for finding space to play? The designers say "[t]he most efficient and workable solution for the maps is to wall-mount them on a metallic surface (galvanized sheet metal, for example). Then use magnetic counter-holders for all units and markers." Are they suggesting mounting these maps vertically, on a wall, and playing standing up with magnets attached to each counter? Is that what they mean by "wall-mount"?

Yes.

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Post #: 146

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/21/2006 4:58:18 AM

ckk

Posts: 1268
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From: Pensacola Beach FL
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I actually did wallmount the SPI "War in the Pacific" map, IIRC it was 43 sq. ft. I then bought magnets for IIRC 3200 individual pieces

It was awesome

I'd stay in that room for hours. Course that wife wasn't around for long after that

< Message edited by ckk -- 9/21/2006 4:59:20 AM >

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Post #: 147

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/21/2006 8:52:00 AM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
Joined: 10/18/2002
From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

Yeah, this map is on the same order of magnitude. Hmm, are there magnets specially designed for this purpose? Will they work with counters that are two-sided?

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Post #: 148

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/21/2006 4:55:40 PM

ckk

Posts: 1268
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: Pensacola Beach FL
Status: offline

I can't remember where I got the magnet's it was 1981

I think at a hobby shop in New York. They were magnetized on one side only, but the pieces slid in and out fairly easy. The real problem was hanging the sheet metal

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Post #: 149

RE: OT-Decision Games WitP - 9/21/2006 6:19:05 PM

Grotius

Posts: 5798
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From: The Imperial Palace.
Status: offline

I actually have the floor and table space to accommodate the maps laying flat, if I do some significant cleaning up. Paradoxically, then, this wargame may actually please my wife for the short term -- at least until all the counters appear on the maps. :)

(in reply to ckk)

Post #: 150

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