Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

One thing that bugs me is the air balance figure being displayed.

Surely it should be consigned to invisibility, as it gives far better recon than recon aircraft or sigint delivers.

How do others feel?

I don't look at the figure, if I can help it - i.e. I only notice it in passing the cursor over bases. It never forms a part of my planning.

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

One thing that bugs me is the air balance figure being displayed.

Surely it should be consigned to invisibility, as it gives far better recon than recon aircraft or sigint delivers.

How do others feel?

I don't look at the figure, if I can help it - i.e. I only notice it in passing the cursor over bases. It never forms a part of my planning.

quote:

Also, it should only be based on active planes in an area, not planes stood down or repairing.

"It is obvious that you have greatly over-estimated my regard for your opinion." - Me

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

It's useful, but folks don't actually -use- it all that often. Many times, it's gives "well duh!" intel.

If you see that Rabaul has an air-bal of 750, it certainly means a lot of crap is based there. But then again, it's Rabual. "Well duh". Of course there's going to be a lot of stuff there, it's Rabaul.

Granted, if you're very clever, you can discern quite a bit intel from airbal numbers. But the reality is, few folks spend the time to actually make it "worth while intel". If you're playing somebody who actually uses airbal (effectively) for intel, he's going to be very talented to begin with, and know much subtler "tricks". He's going to beat you because he's a quality player, not because he spent too much time tinkering with the subtleties of airbal.

Playing games with airbal will save your ass; but it won't kick your ass (if you take my meaning).

Frankly, I consider it mild compensation for the incredible UNDER-representation of what Sigint is. The US could pretty much tell whenever Hirohito was constipated, their intel was THAT accurate. Considering how Sigint in game is a mere shadow of it's real usefulness (and yes, I'm one of the bone-heads that charts sigint with Bohdi's Util), I consider AirBal one of the few "tools" to gather intel, if you actually choose to spend the time to figure out what it's actually telling you.

Again, it -can- be useful. But frankly, the extreme majority of player could really give a crap about it. I can certainly see both sides of the coin, perhaps it was left in as an over-sight. But for all the "lets find a real-world justification" that tends to go on, on these boards. It can be justified by radio traffic and visual spots of coast-watchers and a "contribution" of Sigint.

To each his own.
-F-

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

What´s far worse than the airbalance number is the fact that the Allied player can see when you transfer planes to an airfield and attack it within the next turn (even if it´s meant that you do your orders simultaneously). And not that he just can see that you transfered planes he can also guess how many because of the colour... That sucks!

The Japanese transferes planes to an airfield, the Allied player can see it, the airfield is smashed - GREAT!

The Allied transferes planes to an airfield, the Japanese didn´t see it, the Allied flies from this airfield and smashes something, the Allied retreats again from the airfield, the Japanese attacks this airfield (because he sees something there), the Japanese bombs an empty airfield because the Allied has already retreaten... - GREAT again....

I can´t just have hundreds of house rules! No attacks the turn you transfer planes, no transfer when your planes attacked....

quote:

ORIGINAL: bbbf

Not aimed at you Max

Or any of my PBEM partners or anyone in particular. Just a gripe I've developed over years of reading AAR's and other comments about air balance.

It just doesn't feel right.

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as it gives far better recon than recon aircraft or sigint delivers

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My feeling is that the air balance numbers give you information that should be obtained by reconaissance or combat

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ORIGINAL: Feinder

I see what you're saying about transferring a sqdn, and then it changing the airbal for the Allied player.  That might be true, but I'm not sure that it is.  I -do- know that if Japan transfers a sqdn to a vacant base, the Allied player when receiving the turn does see the "X" at the new base.  I'm not sure if air-bal is recalculated for the Allied player as he opens the turn (will be easy enough to test).  I do know that if you transfer a sqdn during your own turn, it does NOT affect air-bal.  So I'll test it out.

AirBal is a composite of -ALL- sqdns, friendly and enemy, within range of the hex (and decreases as range increases).  An Emily really does project AirBal out to a range of 20 (yes, I tested it).  It doesn't project -much- airbal at 20.  Think about a lonesome hex on the map.  That means every every non-damaged Emily within a diameter of 40 is affecting the AirBal of that hex. 

Frankly, I think some of y'all a bit paranoid.  AirBal can be a very tough read.  Kinda like saying "something" moved to within 12 hexes of Sing, because the Airbal jumped by 100 pts.  Did it move -TO- Sing?  Or Jahor Bahru?  Batavia?  It's hard to tell anything within 6 - 8 hexes, simply because of the "noise" of other active bases.  Also, be aware that your own transfers affect the number.  So if Japan moves in 4 sqdns of Zeros to some base, and I move up a sqdn of Hudsons, my sqdn of Hudsons negates (and thus masks) the presense of some of the AirBal. 

Suffice to say, I -know- AirBal.  And even if I took the time to monitor every turn (which I don't), the best you normally get is "My opponnent has transferred several sqdns from SoPac to Burma."  One sqdn gets lost in the back ground noise.  10 sqdns you might notice.  But again, if your enemy transfers something into a area where -you- have a large base, it's difficult to "hear" the transfer, because your own base is making so much noise already.

If Matrix says it's a 'bug', then it should be removed.  But to be honest with you, I'm quite sure that most of you guys are over-estimating it's true effectiveness.  Don't get me wrong, you -can- get a read from AirBal.  But it's not so concrete as you seem to think it is.  Try it in your own PBEM games, and see how much intel you actually gain from it.  It's -not- that easy, even when you know the formula.

-F-

quote:

ORIGINAL: Feinder

I see what you're saying about transferring a sqdn, and then it changing the airbal for the Allied player.  That might be true, but I'm not sure that it is.  I -do- know that if Japan transfers a sqdn to a vacant base, the Allied player when receiving the turn does see the "X" at the new base.  I'm not sure if air-bal is recalculated for the Allied player as he opens the turn (will be easy enough to test).  I do know that if you transfer a sqdn during your own turn, it does NOT affect air-bal.  So I'll test it out.

AirBal is a composite of -ALL- sqdns, friendly and enemy, within range of the hex (and decreases as range increases).  An Emily really does project AirBal out to a range of 20 (yes, I tested it).  It doesn't project -much- airbal at 20.  Think about a lonesome hex on the map.  That means every every non-damaged Emily within a diameter of 40 is affecting the AirBal of that hex. 

Frankly, I think some of y'all a bit paranoid.  AirBal can be a very tough read.  Kinda like saying "something" moved to within 12 hexes of Sing, because the Airbal jumped by 100 pts.  Did it move -TO- Sing?  Or Jahor Bahru?  Batavia?  It's hard to tell anything within 6 - 8 hexes, simply because of the "noise" of other active bases.  Also, be aware that your own transfers affect the number.  So if Japan moves in 4 sqdns of Zeros to some base, and I move up a sqdn of Hudsons, my sqdn of Hudsons negates (and thus masks) the presense of some of the AirBal. 

Suffice to say, I -know- AirBal.  And even if I took the time to monitor every turn (which I don't), the best you normally get is "My opponnent has transferred several sqdns from SoPac to Burma."  One sqdn gets lost in the back ground noise.  10 sqdns you might notice.  But again, if your enemy transfers something into a area where -you- have a large base, it's difficult to "hear" the transfer, because your own base is making so much noise already.

If Matrix says it's a 'bug', then it should be removed.  But to be honest with you, I'm quite sure that most of you guys are over-estimating it's true effectiveness.  Don't get me wrong, you -can- get a read from AirBal.  But it's not so concrete as you seem to think it is.  Try it in your own PBEM games, and see how much intel you actually gain from it.  It's -not- that easy, even when you know the formula.

-F-