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RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/23/2007 5:00:29 AM   
Jeff Norton


Posts: 2054
Joined: 8/8/2000
From: MD, USA (You're not cleared for specifics...)
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: .50Kerry


quote:

ORIGINAL: Doggie

Good point, as the Soviet made weapons are more "sincere" than the tools of the Capitalist oppressers.

The inventors and manufacturers of revolutionary weaponry such as the AK-47 labored for the good of mankind, seeking only to liberate the working class from the oppression of parasitic western democracies. Eugene Stoner designed weapons in order to further his pursuit of filthy lucre.




If we are going with "weapons and their innate intentions" I think the Nambu 94 must be classed as one of the greatest weapons in the world.

It was a downright pacifistic weapon. More likely almost to kill its user than his target, and capable of blowing off the pride and joy of Nippon with a mere slip in the mud. Hats off to you Kijiro Nambu for being on the leading edge of a massive cultural shift in Japanese thinking.

regards,
sven


Heh - the Darwin Award winner for 1945?

_____________________________

-Jeff
Veritas Vos Liberabit
"Hate America - love their movies" -Foos Babaganoosh - Anchor - Jihad Tonite

(in reply to .50Kerry)
Post #: 61
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/23/2007 10:55:24 PM   
andym


Posts: 1117
Joined: 7/12/2006
From: Kings Lynn UK
Status: offline 		There is only one contender for the category!the Lee Enfield .303 rifle!Solid,reliable,accurate and looks the biz!

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Press to Test...............Release to Detonate!

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Post #: 62
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/24/2007 5:38:33 PM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus



Yup... It's basically a G36 SAW...


No.


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Fighting the EUnuchs from within

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Post #: 63
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/24/2007 5:45:28 PM   
Rune Iversen


Posts: 3630
Joined: 7/20/2001
From: Copenhagen. Denmark
Status: offline 		Enfield M1917

< Message edited by Rune Iversen -- 1/24/2007 6:06:45 PM >

_____________________________

Ignoring the wulfir
Fighting the EUnuchs from within

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Post #: 64
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/24/2007 6:00:51 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rune Iversen


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus



Yup... It's basically a G36 SAW...


No.



Seemed like it. Didn't research it well enough...

Funny how you didn't feel like expanding on your counterpost. <Expletives deleted>.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 1/24/2007 6:12:59 PM >

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We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Rune Iversen)
Post #: 65
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/24/2007 8:13:10 PM   
.50Kerry


Posts: 325
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: a long dark river winding through the jungles....
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus



Seemed like it. Didn't research it well enough...

Funny how you didn't feel like expanding on your counterpost. <Expletives deleted>.


Rune is a man of brevity, incorrect *is* incorrect...seems that when people go at length to disabuse people of notions they are "yankee imperialist scum cowboys"....seeing as how Rune is danish that's likely hurt his feelings.




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Post #: 66
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/28/2007 7:58:32 PM   
Hellcat_Canada


Posts: 39
Joined: 12/8/2005
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline 		Swedish Mauser Model 96 6.5 X 55  very accurate, very sturdy and very pretty.

_____________________________


(in reply to .50Kerry)
Post #: 67
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/28/2007 8:58:50 PM   
Ursa MAior

 

Posts: 1416
Joined: 4/20/2005
From: Hungary, EU
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: .50Kerry
Rune is a man of brevity, incorrect *is* incorrect...seems that when people go at length


You can make yourself ridiculous in 4 short words. Like Rune has shown you dont have to go to lengths when saying 'I am an idiot'.

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Art by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to .50Kerry)
Post #: 68
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/28/2007 11:00:38 PM   
.50Kerry


Posts: 325
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: a long dark river winding through the jungles....
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior


quote:

ORIGINAL: .50Kerry
Rune is a man of brevity, incorrect *is* incorrect...seems that when people go at length


You can make yourself ridiculous in 4 short words. Like Rune has shown you dont have to go to lengths when saying 'I am an idiot'.



I see, so Terminus was correct and the bloodlines of the MG-4 run from the G-36 then?

If so, somebody better let H&K know since they don't make that claim so far as I know. The LMG-36 is another matter entirely. Perhaps Terminus and by extension you yourself can explain to Heckler and Koch and we other wargamers why H&K markets an LMG-36 AND a(prior to the German forces naming it the MG-4) an MG-43. Seems to me that some moron at H&K forgot a hell of a marketing angle if it is indeed counter to what herr Iversen says "made this from the highly successful 36 family of weapons.....

because GermanFan help me it looks to me like H&K is marketing it as the "German Minimi".

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Anchors aweigh!




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Post #: 69
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/28/2007 11:01:48 PM   
.50Kerry


Posts: 325
Joined: 3/30/2004
From: a long dark river winding through the jungles....
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hellcat_Canada

Swedish Mauser Model 96 6.5 X 55  very accurate, very sturdy and very pretty.


beer, heck of a sweetie on sighting.

_____________________________

Anchors aweigh!




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Post #: 70
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/29/2007 4:18:18 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvwilson

They stepped so high
and they made the bugles ring
we stood beside our cotton bails
and didn't say a thing

we fired our guns and the british kepa commin
there wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago
we fired once more and they commenced to runnin
on down the missisip to the gulf of mexico!


oooh come back proud Canadians
Before you had tv
No hockey night in Canada
There was no CBC

In 1812 Madison was mad
He was the President, you know
But he thought he tell the British where they ought to go
He thougth he'd invade Canada
He thought that he was tough
Instead we went to washington
And burned down all his stuff!

And the White House burned burned burned
and we're the ones that did it
it burned burned burned
while the President ran and cried
it burned burned burned
and things were very historical
and the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
wa wa waaaa
In the war of 1812!

Now hillbillies from Kentucky
Dressed in green and red
Left home to fight in Canada
But they returned home dead
Its only war the yankees lost
Except for Vietnam
And also the Alamo
And the bay of... ham

The loser was America
The winner was ourselves
So join right in and gloat about
The war of 1812!

And the whitehouse burned burned burned
And we're the ones that did it!
It burned burned burned
While the President ran and cried
It burned burned burned
And things were very historical
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
wa wa waaaa
In the war of 1812!

In 1812 we were just sittin' around
Mindin' our own business
Puttin' crops into the ground
We heard the soldiers coming
And we didnt like that sound
So we took a boat to Washington
And burned it to the ground!

Oh, oh...
We fired our guns
But the yankees kept on coming
There wasn't quite as many
As there was a while ago
We fired once more
And the yankees started runnin
Down the mississippi to the gulf of mexico
They ran through the snow
And they ran through the forest
They ran throught the bushes where the beavers wouldn't go
They ran so fast that they forgot to take their culture
Back to america, gulf, and texico

So, if you go to Washington, its buildings clean and nice,
Bring a pack of matches, and we’ll burn the White House twice!
And the White House burned burned burned
But the americans won't admit it!
It burned, burned, burned,
It burned and burned and burned
It burned, burned, burned,
Now, i bet that made them mad
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
waa waa waah!
In the war of 1812!

_____________________________


(in reply to morvwilson)
Post #: 71
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/29/2007 7:29:03 AM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Yup, the British won alright. And last I checked the "invasion" of Canada was a secondary affair conducted on a shoe string with a minimal force AND we burned some stuff as well.

Also one MIGHT want to check their facts as to exactly WHY the war of 1812 started,

(in reply to EUBanana)
Post #: 72
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/29/2007 5:49:48 PM   
morvwilson


Posts: 510
Joined: 11/30/2006
From: California
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvwilson

They stepped so high
and they made the bugles ring
we stood beside our cotton bails
and didn't say a thing

we fired our guns and the british kepa commin
there wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago
we fired once more and they commenced to runnin
on down the missisip to the gulf of mexico!


oooh come back proud Canadians
Before you had tv
No hockey night in Canada
There was no CBC

In 1812 Madison was mad
He was the President, you know
But he thought he tell the British where they ought to go
He thougth he'd invade Canada
He thought that he was tough
Instead we went to washington
And burned down all his stuff!

And the White House burned burned burned
and we're the ones that did it
it burned burned burned
while the President ran and cried
it burned burned burned
and things were very historical
and the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
wa wa waaaa
In the war of 1812!

Now hillbillies from Kentucky
Dressed in green and red
Left home to fight in Canada
But they returned home dead
Its only war the yankees lost
Except for Vietnam
And also the Alamo
And the bay of... ham

The loser was America
The winner was ourselves
So join right in and gloat about
The war of 1812!

And the whitehouse burned burned burned
And we're the ones that did it!
It burned burned burned
While the President ran and cried
It burned burned burned
And things were very historical
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
wa wa waaaa
In the war of 1812!

In 1812 we were just sittin' around
Mindin' our own business
Puttin' crops into the ground
We heard the soldiers coming
And we didnt like that sound
So we took a boat to Washington
And burned it to the ground!

Oh, oh...
We fired our guns
But the yankees kept on coming
There wasn't quite as many
As there was a while ago
We fired once more
And the yankees started runnin
Down the mississippi to the gulf of mexico
They ran through the snow
And they ran through the forest
They ran throught the bushes where the beavers wouldn't go
They ran so fast that they forgot to take their culture
Back to america, gulf, and texico

So, if you go to Washington, its buildings clean and nice,
Bring a pack of matches, and we’ll burn the White House twice!
And the White House burned burned burned
But the americans won't admit it!
It burned, burned, burned,
It burned and burned and burned
It burned, burned, burned,
Now, i bet that made them mad
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
waa waa waah!
In the war of 1812!

Nice adaptation !
You should record it to the old Jonny Horton tune!

(in reply to EUBanana)
Post #: 73
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/29/2007 7:37:14 PM   
hawker


Posts: 849
Joined: 6/25/2005
From: Split,Croatia
Status: offline 		For me,best assault rifle is AK-47.

_____________________________


Fortess fortuna iuvat

(in reply to morvwilson)
Post #: 74
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/29/2007 7:50:48 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline 		Ak-47 is a spray and prey weapon, designed for the most part to be easily learned and used by people from any weapon or non weapon background. Most of them are useless if you actually plan to aim and fire.

The M16 can be used the same way but is generally well made and the sights and trajectory can be used to engage single targets at range. The M16a2 is even better.

Though I prefer a heavier round. The M1 Garand is my favorite, if I ever had the money I suppose I would love the M14 as well.

For close work I prefer the M1 Carbine, effective to 300 yards ( though your probably not gonna stop much out there) it can fire fast and load fast, very little recoil, Good for the 50 to 200 yard range ( though at 200 one should still be useing the garand) and good for tight spaces as well.

For close work I would find an AK-47 acceptable, easily maintained, can take a beating and works in most any condition you might still be able to fight back in. Owned one once, sold it quickly since the sights and such were so bad one couldnt reliably aim at anything. ( to be fair it was a chinese made version)

(in reply to hawker)
Post #: 75
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 1/30/2007 5:14:45 PM   
oi_you_nutter


Posts: 418
Joined: 10/28/2004
From: from Bristle now living in Kalifornia
Status: offline 		SA-80  <joke>

SLR (aka FN-FAL) or SMLE

(in reply to Twotribes)
Post #: 76
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/2/2007 7:46:03 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		M-16 using the new 6.8mm round. One shot one kill.

< Message edited by Kevin E. Duguay -- 2/2/2007 7:58:30 AM >

_____________________________

KED

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Post #: 77
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/2/2007 9:34:43 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: morvwilson


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

quote:

ORIGINAL: morvwilson

They stepped so high
and they made the bugles ring
we stood beside our cotton bails
and didn't say a thing

we fired our guns and the british kepa commin
there wasn't nigh as many as there was a while ago
we fired once more and they commenced to runnin
on down the missisip to the gulf of mexico!


oooh come back proud Canadians
Before you had tv
No hockey night in Canada
There was no CBC

In 1812 Madison was mad
He was the President, you know
But he thought he tell the British where they ought to go
He thougth he'd invade Canada
He thought that he was tough
Instead we went to washington
And burned down all his stuff!

And the White House burned burned burned
and we're the ones that did it
it burned burned burned
while the President ran and cried
it burned burned burned
and things were very historical
and the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
wa wa waaaa
In the war of 1812!

Now hillbillies from Kentucky
Dressed in green and red
Left home to fight in Canada
But they returned home dead
Its only war the yankees lost
Except for Vietnam
And also the Alamo
And the bay of... ham

The loser was America
The winner was ourselves
So join right in and gloat about
The war of 1812!

And the whitehouse burned burned burned
And we're the ones that did it!
It burned burned burned
While the President ran and cried
It burned burned burned
And things were very historical
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
wa wa waaaa
In the war of 1812!

In 1812 we were just sittin' around
Mindin' our own business
Puttin' crops into the ground
We heard the soldiers coming
And we didnt like that sound
So we took a boat to Washington
And burned it to the ground!

Oh, oh...
We fired our guns
But the yankees kept on coming
There wasn't quite as many
As there was a while ago
We fired once more
And the yankees started runnin
Down the mississippi to the gulf of mexico
They ran through the snow
And they ran through the forest
They ran throught the bushes where the beavers wouldn't go
They ran so fast that they forgot to take their culture
Back to america, gulf, and texico

So, if you go to Washington, its buildings clean and nice,
Bring a pack of matches, and we’ll burn the White House twice!
And the White House burned burned burned
But the americans won't admit it!
It burned, burned, burned,
It burned and burned and burned
It burned, burned, burned,
Now, i bet that made them mad
And the Americans ran and cried like a bunch of little babies
waa waa waah!
In the war of 1812!

Nice adaptation !
You should record it to the old Jonny Horton tune!



I notice, the way the words are written it fits nicely with "The British Grenadiers."

Now, in defense of my American bretheren, I would like to point out that you Brits burned Washington.... after we burned York. So Canada got burned first, we win. Plus we stopped you guys cold at Baltimore, so it wasn't a COMPLETE loss.



_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to morvwilson)
Post #: 78
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/2/2007 12:37:05 PM   
Twotribes


Posts: 6929
Joined: 2/15/2002
From: Jacksonville NC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior


quote:

ORIGINAL: .50Kerry
Rune is a man of brevity, incorrect *is* incorrect...seems that when people go at length


You can make yourself ridiculous in 4 short words. Like Rune has shown you dont have to go to lengths when saying 'I am an idiot'.


Yup just look for any post by this poster and you will most likley find out exactly what is posted here.

(in reply to Ursa MAior)
Post #: 79
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/2/2007 5:54:49 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay

M-16 using the new 6.8mm round. One shot one kill.

Hmmm? new round? must read...
(Read articles...done)
About time they started thinking again. I never did like the .223,... I wonder if the Russians will go back to the 7.62x39? - probably not...probably make a new 6.5x39 or something.

Anyway - All Hail the end of the .223!

B

(in reply to Kevin E. Duguay)
Post #: 80
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/3/2007 2:52:08 AM   
Tankerace


Posts: 6400
Joined: 3/21/2003
From: Stillwater, OK, United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kevin E. Duguay

M-16 using the new 6.8mm round. One shot one kill.

Hmmm? new round? must read...
(Read articles...done)
About time they started thinking again. I never did like the .223,... I wonder if the Russians will go back to the 7.62x39? - probably not...probably make a new 6.5x39 or something.

Anyway - All Hail the end of the .223!

B



6.8mm huh? Well, at least they are inching back to 7.62mm... and then they can dump that BS and re adopt the .30-06. Call it the .30-2006.

I have a dummy .223 round on my desk at home. To compare, I have a spent .30-06 shell casing from my grandfather's military funeral salute and a .575cal Mini Ball I use in my '61 Springfield. The .223 is frigging tiny in comparison... I dunno what scares me more, the fact I read where the .223 won't take an enemy down, or just imagining what a big .30-06 or a mini ball could do to somebody. Not pleasent to think about at all...

_____________________________

Designer of War Plan Orange
Allied Naval OOBer of Admiral's Edition
Naval Team Lead for War in the Med

Author of Million-Dollar Barrage: American Field Artillery in the Great War coming soon from OU Press.

(in reply to Big B)
Post #: 81
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/3/2007 3:24:37 AM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tankerace

6.8mm huh? Well, at least they are inching back to 7.62mm... and then they can dump that BS and re adopt the .30-06. Call it the .30-2006.

I have a dummy .223 round on my desk at home. To compare, I have a spent .30-06 shell casing from my grandfather's military funeral salute and a .575cal Mini Ball I use in my '61 Springfield. The .223 is frigging tiny in comparison... I dunno what scares me more, the fact I read where the .223 won't take an enemy down, or just imagining what a big .30-06 or a mini ball could do to somebody. Not pleasent to think about at all...

I agree,
Without being Too much of a Ludite, musket/rifle ammunition has been continuously getting smaller since firearms have been developed centuries ago.

By the end of the 19th century-beginning of the 20th century, experts have found that at approximately .30 cal (or 7.62mm) and around 150 grain weight @ 2500 to 2800 fps velocity - the ultimate compromise was reached between range, stopping power, accuracy, and penetration - that a trained rifleman could handle.

Since WWII, I believe, wartime experiences have tried to push the parameters of bullet design even lower - based on many theroies (such as - wounding is as good as killing, the average soldier only really hits a target at around 100 yards, short range barrage fire power is better than long range accuracy and hitting power, etc.).

But having been a U.S. Army rifleman myself (PEACETIME ONLY), with a lot of practical shooting experience with many different weapons - I still believe that there is no real good reason to have general issue infantry rifles at less than full power 7.62, 30-06, .303, 7.92 (etc) auto-loading rifles (insert your national favorite here).

Our predecessors could handle them, and several hundred rounds of ammunition to lug around - I see no reason why today's men cannot be expected to do the same.

My opinion anyway, so Tanker - Yep, I pretty much agree with you.

B



< Message edited by Big B -- 2/3/2007 3:38:24 AM >

(in reply to Tankerace)
Post #: 82
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/3/2007 6:44:41 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		What's nice about the 6.8mm round is that the only modification to the M16 needed is to switch out the top part of the rifle. This can be done in under 30 seconds in field. The new round also uses the same magazines as the 5.56mm round. The mags just hold a few less rounds. 20-25 in a 30 round mag.

This round is also being introduced to the public with a variety of bullet types.

Might be nice for taking down white tails and varmints.

_____________________________

KED

(in reply to Big B)
Post #: 83
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/3/2007 7:07:50 AM   
Paul Vebber


Posts: 11430
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Portsmouth RI
Status: offline 		The 6.5s are better 5.56 replacement than the 6.8s IMHO

Whether the grendel or MPC turns out better is unclear.

http://www.alexanderarms.com/grendel.htm

http://www.alexanderarms.com/siteshopper.htm?cat=15&item=58

http://www.sskindustries.com/6_5mpc.htm

http://www.defensereview.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=970

The MPC cartridge specs out better, but its not been manufactured in quantity yet

Its got as much as 50% more terminal energy than a 5.56, but you only lose 10% of mag capacity for the same weight from 5.56 and (270 vice 300 in a standard load out, vice 175 for 6.8)

That is if I was doing it for the army.

For me myself, I'd take:



This is SSK's new suppressed .510 Whisper® built on the
SAKO TRG-S action. The 750 grain Hornady AMAC bullet is
capable of 1 MOA accuracy at 600 yards. Scope mount is the
SSK T'SOB and the scope is a MK-IV Leupold 16X. SSK chambers
many different .50 caliber cartridges in a large variety of firearms



510 Whisper®
750 Hornady AMAC and 750 grain PPI . . . 1050 FPS.
Suppressed under 126 DB. MOA accuracy at 600 yards.


< Message edited by Paul Vebber -- 2/3/2007 7:22:30 AM >

(in reply to Big B)
Post #: 84
RE: What is your favorite infantry rifle? - 2/6/2007 7:35:49 AM   
Kevin E. Duguay

 

Posts: 1044
Joined: 4/24/2002
From: Goldsboro, North Carolina
Status: offline 		M14  Still very good!!!!!

_____________________________

KED

(in reply to Paul Vebber)
Post #: 85
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