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RE: Kodaha, Toseiha and Kodoha

 
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RE: Kodaha, Toseiha and Kodoha - 3/16/2007 2:32:20 AM   
rtrapasso


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Honda

The begining of the second chapter in "To the Marco Polo Bridge".


OK - the gist of your translation seems to be true, however, there appears to have been "cliques" with the control group.

Here is the text (starting with the 2nd paragraph):
"Without hesitation Prince Saionji advised the Emperor to name another general, Kazushige Ugaki, to succeed Hirota. This choice infuriated almost everyone in the Army, since Ugaki was a moderate who had once reduced thier number by four divisions. Consequently the Big Three said they simply couldn't find anyone who would serve with Ugaki. He was compelled to report to the Emperor that he was unable to form a cabinet and gave vent to his indignation in a statement to the newspapers: What I see is that only a few men in authoritative positions in the Army have formed a group [the Control clique] and are forcing their views on the authorities, propagandizing as if their action represents the general will of the Army. The Army belongs to the Emperor. Whether their action during the last few days represents thw general will of the Army of the Emperor or not is not too clear. The selection of a war minister by the Big THree of the Army is too formal and lacks sincerity... I believe that Japan stands at the crossroads between fascism and parliamentary politics. I am partly responsible for the present condition of the Army, which has become a political organization. I feel sorry for the Emperor because of this state of affairs. Moreover, I greatly regret that the Army, which I have loved so long, has been brought to such a pass..."

(in reply to Honda)
Post #: 31
RE: Kodaha, Toseiha and Kodoha - 3/16/2007 2:35:48 AM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		OK - from what i understand, cliques would develop in the ruling party. A similar situation crops up later (iirc) when Hirohito was forced out of office. A new cabinet was formed - by members of his own party.

Not to get political, but an analogous situation has been seen in American politics, for instance when members of the ruling party have called for the resignation of the President (i.e. Nixon), or when members of the President's party have occasionally blocked nominations of the President.

(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 32
RE: Kodaha, Toseiha and Kodoha - 3/16/2007 3:13:11 AM   
Honda


Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline 		Ok, the translator is off the hook. It's Toland. Now, although I see the logic behind the Nixon analogy I don't belive thats the case here. You should read the next few lines of text where Tolan writes about Hayashi taking office and stated that it was him who actually had the backing of the Control group. Hayashi was, as I said, Araki's follower. They are not Contol group (Toseiha). I think Toland mixed up Kodaha and Toseiha.

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(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 33
RE: Kodaha, Toseiha and Kodoha - 3/16/2007 5:07:01 AM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Honda
So in my thesis, where im writing about the plethora of reasons, mechanizms or whatever that helped Japan push itself into WW2, I decided to keep the issues mostly political, economic and military. Going into harts and mind of Japanese is impossible for me without knowing the county, its people and language. Here's what I'm writing about (by chapters):
1. IJA influnence in Japanese politics
2. Japan's invasion of China
3. Personal reasons (Konoe, Matsuoka, Hornbeck, Hull, Roosevel)
4. secret societies, lobbys and conspiracies
5. Mistakes and misunderstandings
6. Econonic and demographical reasons
7. Japanes preparations for for during negotiations
8. Japan's signing of the Tripartite Pact
Those are my points of discussion.


There is a very good book (doubt it's translated to Croatian); "Japan's War-The Great Pacific Conflict", Edwin P. Hoyt, Cooper Square Press, New York, New York, 2001. ISBN 0-8154-1118-9. I think I paid 19.95 USD.

The entire first half of the book is developmental (Satsuma/Choshu through Meiji and early Hirohito) and goes into wonderful detail about all of your points from the Japanese perspective. PH doesn't happen till Chapter 21. The notes and bibliography sections are worth the price alone. Also includes complete text of the Constitution (Meiji Kempo).

JWE

(in reply to Honda)
Post #: 34
RE: Kodaha, Toseiha and Kodoha - 3/16/2007 12:18:46 PM   
Honda


Posts: 953
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Karlovac, Croatia
Status: offline 		Thanks JWE. Great info, wish I knew that before! The only problem is I'm done with the writing and once I hand it in...bye-bye
I gotta find a decent job first and then I can start reading books for pleasure. I don't exactly see myself putting bread on the table by researching japanese history, at least not here in Croatia.


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AAR of my game vs Raver on my clan forum in croatian language (despite the language differences, no Ravers allowed)

(in reply to JWE)
Post #: 35
RE: Kodaha, Toseiha and Kodoha - 3/16/2007 12:54:43 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

Thank you very much "rtrapasso" for looking into Toland's English original for us!


Leo "Apollo11"


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(in reply to rtrapasso)
Post #: 36
RE: Kodaha, Toseiha and Kodoha - 3/16/2007 1:30:39 PM   
rtrapasso


Posts: 22653
Joined: 9/3/2002
Status: offline 		My pleasure - now i am going to read the Toland that i checked out...

(in reply to Apollo11)
Post #: 37
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