Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

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CERTAINTIES:
 
THE NETHERLANDS:  A nation's capital is defined as its seat of government, not its largest or most famous city.  Thus the capital of Australia is Canberra not Sydney.  And the capital of the Netherlands is The Hague not Amsterdam.  If you look at the German drop-zones when they attacked the Netherlands, they put a lot of effort into capturing The Hague (and the Queen), and ignored Amsterdam.  Fortunately, correcting this error is simple, as both Amsterdam and the Hague are in the same hex.

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BORNHOLM: Bornholm is Danish and should be SE of Malmo.  It was 'liberated' by the Russians in 1945, and there were some worries they would not give it back.  They did.

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MEMEL: Memel was a part of Lithuania until annexed by Germany on 23 March 1939 (it had been annexed by Lithuania in 1923).  Since the game includes such features as the Sudetenland, implying a pre-war start, Memel should also be noted as able to change hands.

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SOUTHAMPTON: Southampton is very close to Portsmouth, inland and to the north of the Isle of Wight.  Perhaps for game purposes it needs to be in its own hex separate from Portsmouth.  If so, perhaps the English coastline (and the Isle of Wight) could be shifted a bit westward?  Note that the forest hex represents the New Forest, which is actually west of Southampton.

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ISLES OF SCILLY: missing.

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RYBACHI PENINSULA: remove the red line NE hexside of Petsamo.  The peninsula was shared between Finland and USSR.  Is the glacier-type terrain between Petsamo and Murmansk impassable?  They did try to fight here, though not very effectively.

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HANKO: On my atlas, English spelling is Hango (leased to USSR after Winter War).

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VYBORG: On my British 1936/1942 map, Viipuri.

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FINNISH BORDERLANDS:  My 1942 atlas shows the one around Lake Ladoga is far too big.  The problem is that Lake Ladoga is badly drawn: it is more rectangular than square.  Along the north cost of the lake, the Soviets annexed only a corridor varying in width between 10 and 20 miles.  All they wanted was the railway line that comes up from Leningrad, and which skirts the lake.

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DANZIG: Danzig was not part of the Polish Corridor, being a free city under the League of Nations.  After all, the Polish Corridor was a corridor owned by Poland leading to the sea at Gdynia.

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SLOVAKIA:  Slovakia became an 'independent' country (capital Bratislava) and a German minor ally in March 1939 as Germany invaded Bohemia-Moravia (what is now the Czech Republic): if the Sudetenland warrants a border, so too should Slovakia with Bohemia-Moravia.  The northeast hexes of Hungary (Ruthenia) were actually a part of Slovakia until autumn 1938 - at the time of Munich, Slovakia had a border with Romania.  So these hexes should be shown as negotiable, just like the Sudetenland.

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CHERSO: southest of Pola, principal island (Cherso) was Italian.

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AEGEAN:  Mytilene (Lesbos) is Greek.  The only Turkish island in the Aegean is Imbros (not shown, it is east of Lemnos).  The unnamed island NE of Leros is Samos and very Greek - better to remove it than suggest it is Turkish, causing our Greek friends offence.

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SMYRNA: After capture by Turks in the twenties, renamed Izmir

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GREECE: Patras not Patrai

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MIDDLE EAST: In 1936/1942 Jordan's name was Transjordan, because it was over the Jordan river. 

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It took over the West Bank (rather reluctantly, as the Bedouin are very different from the Palestinians) only between 1948 and 1967.  The map as drawn at present suggests Jordan includes the West Bank: might be better to give that hex to Palestine.  I really don't think Lebanon's hills warrant mountain status: the mountains end in the hex north of Alexandretta.  I confirm that Tel Aviv existed in 1936: on my map it is shown as a suburb of Jaffa.

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NORTH AFRICA: Fez is a significant Moroccan city.

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There was a short rail-line south from Algiers, and a longer one south from Constantine.

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The Tunisian Chott extends into Algeria.

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I agree with the change of Er Rif to Spanish Morocco.  By 1936, International Settlement of Tangier had shrunk to about the size of Gibraltar.  More accurate to have it moved one hex west.  I agree that it should be considered de facto under Spanish control.

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Rabat a bit too close to border with Spanish Morocco (relative to Casablanca).

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

First, please remember this : when the maps for MWiF were worked on, it was already decided to keep the European part of te WiF FE map as it was, so we had to do with that. Scandinavia was modified because being just at the edge of the map it had some things misplaced for game purposes (surch as Bergen), but not more than that.

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CERTAINTIES:
 
THE NETHERLANDS:  A nation's capital is defined as its seat of government, not its largest or most famous city.  Thus the capital of Australia is Canberra not Sydney.  And the capital of the Netherlands is The Hague not Amsterdam.  If you look at the German drop-zones when they attacked the Netherlands, they put a lot of effort into capturing The Hague (and the Queen), and ignored Amsterdam.  Fortunately, correcting this error is simple, as both Amsterdam and the Hague are in the same hex.

I could add the "The Hague" name (well, the place is already cluttered enough IMO), but not change the capital.

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BORNHOLM: Bornholm is Danish and should be SE of Malmo.  It was 'liberated' by the Russians in 1945, and there were some worries they would not give it back.  They did.

This island could have been drawn more to the south of where it is, but placing it in the hex to the south would be wrong too. So we did not change it, according to what is said above.

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MEMEL: Memel was a part of Lithuania until annexed by Germany on 23 March 1939 (it had been annexed by Lithuania in 1923).  Since the game includes such features as the Sudetenland, implying a pre-war start, Memel should also be noted as able to change hands.

Memel is German at game's start, S/O 39. Could be changed for a game starting earlier, but it is not MWiF product 1.

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SOUTHAMPTON: Southampton is very close to Portsmouth, inland and to the north of the Isle of Wight.  Perhaps for game purposes it needs to be in its own hex separate from Portsmouth.  If so, perhaps the English coastline (and the Isle of Wight) could be shifted a bit westward?  Note that the forest hex represents the New Forest, which is actually west of Southampton.

I'll see at pushing Southampton more to the edge of the hex. I can't do nothing for the forest though as I have no evidence that it represent the New Forest. IMHO it represents the fact that England should have 1 hex of forest somewhere (from the density of forest land in England compared to the number of hexes). The designer have placed it here for a reason I don't know.

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ISLES OF SCILLY: missing.

Sorry. I would have placed them if I had designed the map.

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RYBACHI PENINSULA: remove the red line NE hexside of Petsamo.  The peninsula was shared between Finland and USSR.  Is the glacier-type terrain between Petsamo and Murmansk impassable?  They did try to fight here, though not very effectively.

It is already as you say. The Terrain is Tundra. It is as mountain for movement cost, and as clear for combat effects.

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HANKO: On my atlas, English spelling is Hango (leased to USSR after Winter War).

I believe someone already asked this, but I forgot. I put it on ly to do list (I'll do after I verified).

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VYBORG: On my British 1936/1942 map, Viipuri.

There already were much debate about this one, and in the end we let it this way, because of the WiF FE map heritage.

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FINNISH BORDERLANDS:  My 1942 atlas shows the one around Lake Ladoga is far too big.  The problem is that Lake Ladoga is badly drawn: it is more rectangular than square.  Along the north cost of the lake, the Soviets annexed only a corridor varying in width between 10 and 20 miles.  All they wanted was the railway line that comes up from Leningrad, and which skirts the lake.

Also already debated, but game play reasons led to have it that way. Also, the Lake Ladoga on MWiF map is not square.

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DANZIG: Danzig was not part of the Polish Corridor, being a free city under the League of Nations.  After all, the Polish Corridor was a corridor owned by Poland leading to the sea at Gdynia.

Can't do nothing here.
Anyway, the Germans invaded it, so having it part of Poland is not a big deal. Making it a Free City would require a lot of work in defining a new country for its hex, and then we would let the Germans invade it anyway.

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SLOVAKIA:  Slovakia became an 'independent' country (capital Bratislava) and a German minor ally in March 1939 as Germany invaded Bohemia-Moravia (what is now the Czech Republic): if the Sudetenland warrants a border, so too should Slovakia with Bohemia-Moravia.  The northeast hexes of Hungary (Ruthenia) were actually a part of Slovakia until autumn 1938 - at the time of Munich, Slovakia had a border with Romania.  So these hexes should be shown as negotiable, just like the Sudetenland.

Sudetenland has a border because there is a rule for that in DoD, which is not part of MWiF, but the designer prefered to keep in anyway in case of future MWiF products. I can't add the borders, but I'll see if I can add the names though.

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CHERSO: southest of Pola, principal island (Cherso) was Italian.

You mean the island north of Cres ? It is in the same hex as the Yugoslavian mainland, so we can't have it another nationality than the rest of the hex. Sorry, kind of Bornholm problem here too.

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AEGEAN:  Mytilene (Lesbos) is Greek.  The only Turkish island in the Aegean is Imbros (not shown, it is east of Lemnos).  The unnamed island NE of Leros is Samos and very Greek - better to remove it than suggest it is Turkish, causing our Greek friends offence.

Mytilene was corrected, as really blatantly wrong. For Leros, same problem as Bornholm and Cherso. Same hex as the mainland which is Turkish. Can do nothing here.

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SMYRNA: After capture by Turks in the twenties, renamed Izmir

I'll look on my 40s map how it was named on them.

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GREECE: Patras not Patrai

I'll correct that.

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MIDDLE EAST: In 1936/1942 Jordan's name was Transjordan, because it was over the Jordan river. 

Well, I hesitated changing that too when I was editing the map. I'm still hesitant. I know it is the right name for the moment. Steve would you agree ?

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It took over the West Bank (rather reluctantly, as the Bedouin are very different from the Palestinians) only between 1948 and 1967.  The map as drawn at present suggests Jordan includes the West Bank: might be better to give that hex to Palestine.  I really don't think Lebanon's hills warrant mountain status: the mountains end in the hex north of Alexandretta.  I confirm that Tel Aviv existed in 1936: on my map it is shown as a suburb of Jaffa.

Can't change the mountain.

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NORTH AFRICA: Fez is a significant Moroccan city.

I added the name, but did not dare add the city for the game play effects.

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There was a short rail-line south from Algiers, and a longer one south from Constantine.

I'll see that on my 1939-1944 maps.

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The Tunisian Chott extends into Algeria.

I'll see that too.

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I agree with the change of Er Rif to Spanish Morocco.  By 1936, International Settlement of Tangier had shrunk to about the size of Gibraltar.  More accurate to have it moved one hex west.  I agree that it should be considered de facto under Spanish control.

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Rabat a bit too close to border with Spanish Morocco (relative to Casablanca).

I'll try to move it more to the SE of the hex. The WiF FE map has it more to the SE too. Maybe it will be a problem for the railway (trying to trace in the sea), I'll see.

Thanks for the comments. No time now to answer your other post.

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I don't think there was (or is) any oil around Mosul: it's all around Kirkuk.

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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HANKO: On my atlas, English spelling is Hango (leased to USSR after Winter War).

I believe someone already asked this, but I forgot. I put it on ly to do list (I'll do after I verified).

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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I don't think there was (or is) any oil around Mosul: it's all around Kirkuk.

You're right about that. I believe that the southern Iraqi oil represents that oil resources.

WiF FE Iraq map is quite bad, as Iraq on the WiF FE map is on the edge of 2 maps who are not the same scale. So unifying the map under one scale in MWiF was quite difficult, and required a couple of changes on the European part of the Map (example : Mosul is 1 hex south of its position in WiF FE).

Maybe it require a bit more work to be better. I did a little research, and can propose that to you. This is very crude but roughly shows what I propose to make the Kirkuk area right. I did not check on my 1940-1944 atlases to see if the railway is correct, I'll check tonight at home, but anyway it needs to be a railway to Kirkuk.

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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HANKO: On my atlas, English spelling is Hango (leased to USSR after Winter War).

I believe someone already asked this, but I forgot. I put it on ly to do list (I'll do after I verified).

Look, if I could be shown more evidence of that, I'd be interested. Because when I look at wikipedia, it looks like Hanko is the right name (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanko), and when I look at my 1935 or 1944 map, it is written Hango on the 1944 one, and Hanko on the 1935 one.

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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I don't think there was (or is) any oil around Mosul: it's all around Kirkuk.

You're right about that. I believe that the southern Iraqi oil represents that oil resources.

WiF FE Iraq map is quite bad, as Iraq on the WiF FE map is on the edge of 2 maps who are not the same scale. So unifying the map under one scale in MWiF was quite difficult, and required a couple of changes on the European part of the Map (example : Mosul is 1 hex south of its position in WiF FE).

Maybe it require a bit more work to be better. I did a little research, and can propose that to you. This is very crude but roughly shows what I propose to make the Kirkuk area right. I did not check on my 1940-1944 atlases to see if the railway is correct, I'll check tonight at home, but anyway it needs to be a railway to Kirkuk.

I've checked my 1940s atlases tonight and this is OK as I drew it, except that the east railway don't go farther than Kirkuk.
Edit : Especially the Baghdad - Mosul railway that is on the west bank of the river from start to end.
So, opinions on that Iraqi variation ?

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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ORIGINAL: Froonp

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I don't think there was (or is) any oil around Mosul: it's all around Kirkuk.

You're right about that. I believe that the southern Iraqi oil represents that oil resources.

WiF FE Iraq map is quite bad, as Iraq on the WiF FE map is on the edge of 2 maps who are not the same scale. So unifying the map under one scale in MWiF was quite difficult, and required a couple of changes on the European part of the Map (example : Mosul is 1 hex south of its position in WiF FE).

Maybe it require a bit more work to be better. I did a little research, and can propose that to you. This is very crude but roughly shows what I propose to make the Kirkuk area right. I did not check on my 1940-1944 atlases to see if the railway is correct, I'll check tonight at home, but anyway it needs to be a railway to Kirkuk.

I've checked my 1940s atlases tonight and this is OK as I drew it, except that the east railway don't go farther than Kirkuk.
Edit : Especially the Baghdad - Mosul railway that is on the west bank of the river from start to end.
So, opinions on that Iraqi variation ?

Look, you should not have me started on that. I did more researches on Iraq in 1940-1945, and the railways & oil resources should look like that (without departing too much from the WiF FE maps) :

Opinions ?

Steve ?
Can I do that ?

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ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
You were going to change the country designations as to which ones are on the "Pacific map". Did I miss those?

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ORIGINAL: Smiffus64

Re. The Hague and Amsterdam. Amsterdam is the capital of the Netherlands, however the seat of government is in the Hague.

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ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

ITALY

Adriatic: The pair of islands presently marked 'Cres (Yug)' were Cherso and Lussin, both Italian (and closer to Pola than marked). By Cres I presume you mean Krk (sic - don't you just love Serbo-Croat's indifference to vowels?) which was Yugoslavian and is the little island nestling up against the mainland E of Pola ... so no problems there.

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Monte Cassino: I suggest you drop the 'Monte'. Monte Cassino was the monastery at the top of the mountain famously held by the falshirmjaegers and destroyed by the RAF. But Cassino, where the bulk of the ordinary fighting took place was a town in the valley overlooked by the monastery. Since the hex is not depicted as the mountain but as the valley, it would be better to drop the 'Monte'.

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Elba: Elba (presently shown SW of Leghorn) is Italian but much closer to the Italian coastline than shown. I suggest you either move the island one hex E or obliterate it as irrelevant.

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ORIGINAL: marcuswatney
I assume Mytilene = Lesbos will have its border moved to show it as Greek, as it occupies a hex alone.

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ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Sadly, in life we don't get to choose our capitals. Many are smaller and more boring than neighbouring famous cities. Think Ottawa, Canberra, Brasilia.

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ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Tunisia: Good to see Kasserine marked.  But what about Mareth (near Gabes) where there was a very tough battle?  Rommel built his fortified line here because it was a bottleneck, between the sea and the mountains (comparable to those in north Tunisia).  However, no hills appear on the map, so there seems little point defending at Gabes (=Mareth).  Would it be pushing things to ask for the bottleneck to be recreated by having some difficult-to-enter terrain SW of Gabes?

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Also there was quite an extensive rail-net throughout the northern half of Tunisia, from coast to near the Algerian border.  However, I believe rolling-stock was the limiting factor, so it may be as well to leave these out.

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Libya:  There was a rail-line from Homs to Tripoli to half-way to the border.

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*Sigh*: how I wish we were allowed to draw the Qattara Depression correctly.

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ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

Regarding Bornholm and, more importantly, the Greek island of Samos which is shown as Turkish ... I do think it very important that where for game-play reasons these things cannot be changed, then the island should be obliterated.  The Greeks even today are very sensitive about anything Turkish.

I assume Mytilene = Lesbos will have its border moved to show it as Greek, as it occupies a hex alone.

I didn't mean to suggest there was any problem with Leros.  I believe it was under Italian control as part of the Dodecanese.  Since it was the location of a famous British airborne attack, we have to be careful to get Leros right.

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ORIGINAL: marcuswatney

My apologies to all living in the splendid city of Ottawa!

The Iraqi rail-lines and oilfields look splendid now.  One question of spelling: Teheran or Tehran?  My atlases of the time say the latter.