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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> War In The Pacific - Struggle Against Japan 1941 - 1945 >> The War Room >> Some questions Page: [1]
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Some questions - 4/24/2007 5:11:16 PM   
cantona


Posts: 239
Joined: 4/29/2006
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		Im embarking on my first PBEM full campaign and ive been reading up on the 'what should the allies do initially?' threads but some questions have arisen out of my AI games

1) Should air units doomed to die have replacements on/off?
2) What effect is there when the update unit button is pressed? Tried to update Lysanders to Hurries but no changes depsite 50 aircraft available
3)In my AI games i make Batvia, Soerebaja, Kendrai and Ambonia into a strong first line of defence backed up by Darwin and PM. How possible is this in PBEM? Granted in my last AI game i got lucky and sunk the Hriyo and damaged the Siryo (sp) with 4e bombers based at Cagayan
4) Lastly where do i evac the B17s in the PIL too?

thanks
cantona


< Message edited by cantona -- 4/24/2007 5:51:48 PM >

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Post #: 1
RE: Some questions - 4/24/2007 5:46:20 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline 		1. If the air unit is trapped and will be elliminated, I wouldn't drain planes from my pool that will also be doomed to die, unless those extra planes can prolong to battle and cause beneficial damage to the enemy. However, if the air unit is based where the emeny has been hammering the airfield, chances are the airfield is damaged which means any extra planes probably won't fly anyway.

2. British planes can not upgrade until May '42.

3. If a PBEM opponent moves fast enough, you don't have the resorces to defend those areas fr very long. I good Japan PBEM opponent will bring in air and knock out the airfields of those based and will land with more troops then you can oppose. But it is a good defence as long as you can make it work.

4. I've seen some take them to India... some to China....I like to take them to OZ and PM to help against the battle around Rabaul/Timor.

(in reply to cantona)
Post #: 2
RE: Some questions - 4/24/2007 5:50:27 PM   
cantona


Posts: 239
Joined: 4/29/2006
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		Thanks for the replies Charboiled. So going on your first answer its best maybe to allow replacements for PI air units for the first couple of turns only as they fly LRCAP over any fleeing transports?

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1966 was a great year for english football...eric was born

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Post #: 3
RE: Some questions - 4/24/2007 6:10:26 PM   
Charbroiled


Posts: 1181
Joined: 10/15/2004
From: Oregon
Status: offline 		Early in the war, a good Japan opponent will keep bombing Clark's Field to the point where the airfield service damage is high and your fighters are constantly in a state of repair. I usually get the P-40s out of Clarks' Field and to a base that is not the target of an intense bombing, but will allow me to interdict the enemy. Then I try to stay one step ahead of the Japanese land grab. As far as accepting replacements, remember you have units of P-40e and P-40b at PI and a limited pool for both early in the war. If you allow replacements to the PI units, you will probably drain the pool and other units such as the AVG or fighters in PH will not be receiving replacements. Used correctly, the AVG can be more damaging to your opponent early on, and you might be in need of fighters at PH depending of what the Japanese are up to in that area.

(in reply to cantona)
Post #: 4
RE: Some questions - 4/24/2007 7:28:49 PM   
niceguy2005


Posts: 12523
Joined: 7/4/2005
From: Super secret hidden base
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cantona

Thanks for the replies Charboiled. So going on your first answer its best maybe to allow replacements for PI air units for the first couple of turns only as they fly LRCAP over any fleeing transports?

In my PBEM games I try to work my defenses from the inside out. By that I mean I really fortify critical areas first like PM, Noumea, PH, Brisbane, Perth, Calcutta and so on, then use what I have left over to man forward positions. Those that man forward positions fight to the death. My defense becomes like an onion, it has many layers and the closer you get to the heart, the stronger it gets.

In terms of replacements I would turn all AC replacements off everywhere and use the manual draw replacements button on the unit screen to selectively draw replacements.

One needs to plan ahead with supplies. You need 20,000 + supplies at a base to draw replacement AC. Make some supply depots so that you can continue to draw replacements. This is particularly important for the DEI.

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Post #: 5
RE: Some questions - 4/24/2007 10:36:00 PM   
cantona


Posts: 239
Joined: 4/29/2006
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		Thanks again

In AI games i manually move all my subs, is this advisable in PBEM?

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1966 was a great year for english football...eric was born

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Post #: 6
RE: Some questions - 4/24/2007 10:52:07 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline 		As someone who has played Japan opening a few times now, I have an OK handle on the capabilities of Japan the first couple months, and what Allies can do to counter. I feel like a traitor, but....

MALAYA:
I would move the AVG to Singapore, and evacuate as many of those units as possible to India. You can use single-ship TF's, or leave some uncovered and empty (the Bettys will go after those), and cover the single-ship ones. But the AVG over Sing will keep that airbase, and port, open.

Other than that, get everyone to Singapore as quick as possible. Don't defend the forward bases, except to cover evacuations.

PI: Collapse everyone on Clark or Manila, you pick, I think Clark is more valuable. Turn off all replacements/reinforcements, you need all your supplies. Use all your subs to land supplies, and take out unit fragments. US subs are no good anyway at this stage, good use for them. Obviously, get every ship out turn one. Single ship TF's for the transports.

DEI: Move all your Dutch bombers constantly to harass IJN ships. Dutch Subs are good at this stage, those are your main Sub force. Use the Dutch Navy to contest landings that are not covered, but if there is an IJN SCTF covering an invasion, I would stay away. Be very carefull of Bettys. You should NEVER dock ships within Zero/Betty range of a Japanese Size 2+ airfield at this stage. NEVER. Once a base falls within 9 hexes of Soerbaya, it's time to evacuate the port. Otherwise, you pretty much have to sit there and take it. You might concentrate the java forces at Soerbaya. Careful at N. Oz, once Koepang falls, all those ports can be easily bombed.

OTHER: In general, I would load US Troops and get them ASAP to the following locations:

Noumea
Canton Is.

Then, Pago Pago, Suva.




(in reply to cantona)
Post #: 7
RE: Some questions - 4/24/2007 10:55:17 PM   
cantona


Posts: 239
Joined: 4/29/2006
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		ThanksQball

Sound advice, i do most of the playing against the AI. Only thing ive never done is withdraw units using subs, always use them to hunt despite the dreaded 'torpedoes fail to detonate' messgae



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1966 was a great year for english football...eric was born

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Post #: 8
RE: Some questions - 4/24/2007 10:57:40 PM   
cantona


Posts: 239
Joined: 4/29/2006
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline 		oh one other thing

I usually also stop all production in Russia, ie port/af/fort. Will this have an impact on my level of supply or is it a neglible effect?

would this be gamey considering that in real life the russians did keep substantial forces in the east?

_____________________________

1966 was a great year for english football...eric was born

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Post #: 9
RE: Some questions - 4/25/2007 12:32:56 AM   
rogueusmc


Posts: 4583
Joined: 2/8/2004
From: Texas...what country are YOU from?
Status: offline 		I, personally, like to make my game realistic...if a base isn't recieving inbound shipments of supplies, they don't get new planes etc. (otherwise, how would they get there?). If the planes can be flown in tracing a realistic path, then it's a go if the situation isn't yet hopeless.

As for personnel, if it is realistic that they may come in via Catalina or something, I let them have pilots and such. Changing commanders follow this rule too. Ground units are cut off from getting replacements and gear upgrades until I get supply shipments to them.

I just try to make my games logical and limit to what would be possible given the logistical situation...I wish we could disband ground units into others like we can airgroups though.

Lee


< Message edited by rogueusmc -- 4/25/2007 12:34:29 AM >

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(in reply to cantona)
Post #: 10
RE: Some questions - 4/25/2007 3:53:22 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline 		I dont understand what you mean by "doomed to die". I NEVER leave planes to die. Example please.

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Post #: 11
RE: Some questions - 4/25/2007 5:15:13 AM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline 		I like to withdraw at least two B-17 units (ones that can get to 48) to India, specifically Dacca. Send every available BF or INF unit with engineers there to make it an airfield worth the name. With the AVG, after it is done fighting in Sinagapore, as CAP in Dacca and the various Hurricanes, you can make like rough for the Japs in Burma.


_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to Yamato hugger)
Post #: 12
RE: Some questions - 4/25/2007 6:06:10 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		Use the US S-CLASS subs to hunt for Japanese shipping. Check their COs to make sure they have high naval rating and middling aggression rating (high aggression will get them beat up too badly too fast).

The subs with names are better used moving fragments of the larger (aviation support # is the critical attribute) base forces in the PI to safety in Australia - you will need them there later and you won't have the supplies to reform them any further to the front. Turn OFF replacements for everything in the PI but once you get them them to OZ turn them ON again. You can also get fragments of base forces out on single ship TFs on the first turn or two but after that it gets pretty dicey. Make sure you pull out a fragment by sub too for any unit that loads on a surface ship. And don't hang around loading...Click LOAD ONLY TROOPS...then click CANCEL LOAD TROOPS and set the destination. Route the ships to different hexes and set homeport to some place in the DEI...sorta lets you zig-zag and prevents an IJN SCTF from landing in a hex with 15 one ship TFs and sinking them all one by one. Put all those Manila Minesweeps into an ASW TF and set to patrol off Manila...probably won't get the sub there but will attract Bettys and Nells away from the more valuable troopships, tenders, and tankers.

As far as air forces are concerned...turn off replacements in the PI. Abandon Clark Field as an airbase...it gets hammered too badly on the first turn to be of any use. Put some PBYs at Bataan and disperse your fighters around to the smaller bases...a squadron or 2 of fighters should head for the DEI to reform right off too even if they have to do it plane by plane. Pull the B-17s back to Java...replace them with some Hudsons or Martins. If you want ships then go in at 1000-2000 ft (a 250 lb bomb can make Ryuho (CVLs) go away anyways even if it doesn't sink them). The sdrn's morale will suffer but they will get some hits and their experience will go up...then pull back that sqdrn, replace with a green sqdrn and repeat...when you pull back you can merge the depleted sqdrns and have some decent sqdrns to fight for Java with.

Don't use the American fighters in the PI for defense..at first set them on Naval Attack or Ground Attack at low altitude with CAP at ZERO%. If they go up to play with the Zeros they won't come back. It's a crapshoot though. If they're bombing and run into LRCAP they may get chewed up anyways but probably not as badly cause LRCAP wears out the Zeros too and LRCAP is always weaker in numbers unless it's set to range 0-1 or so.

(in reply to AU Tiger_MatrixForum)
Post #: 13
RE: Some questions - 4/25/2007 6:28:59 AM   
AU Tiger_MatrixForum


Posts: 1606
Joined: 10/9/2006
From: Deepest Dixie
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Use the US S-CLASS subs to hunt for Japanese shipping. Check their COs to make sure they have high naval rating and middling aggression rating (high aggression will get them beat up too badly too fast).

The subs with names are better used moving fragments of the larger (aviation support # is the critical attribute) base forces in the PI to safety in Australia - you will need them there later and you won't have the supplies to reform them any further to the front. Turn OFF replacements for everything in the PI but once you get them them to OZ turn them ON again. You can also get fragments of base forces out on single ship TFs on the first turn or two but after that it gets pretty dicey. Make sure you pull out a fragment by sub too for any unit that loads on a surface ship. And don't hang around loading...Click LOAD ONLY TROOPS...then click CANCEL LOAD TROOPS and set the destination. Route the ships to different hexes and set homeport to some place in the DEI...sorta lets you zig-zag and prevents an IJN SCTF from landing in a hex with 15 one ship TFs and sinking them all one by one. Put all those Manila Minesweeps into an ASW TF and set to patrol off Manila...probably won't get the sub there but will attract Bettys and Nells away from the more valuable troopships, tenders, and tankers.

As far as air forces are concerned...turn off replacements in the PI. Abandon Clark Field as an airbase...it gets hammered too badly on the first turn to be of any use. Put some PBYs at Bataan and disperse your fighters around to the smaller bases...a squadron or 2 of fighters should head for the DEI to reform right off too even if they have to do it plane by plane. Pull the B-17s back to Java...replace them with some Hudsons or Martins. If you want ships then go in at 1000-2000 ft (a 250 lb bomb can make Ryuho (CVLs) go away anyways even if it doesn't sink them). The sdrn's morale will suffer but they will get some hits and their experience will go up...then pull back that sqdrn, replace with a green sqdrn and repeat...when you pull back you can merge the depleted sqdrns and have some decent sqdrns to fight for Java with.

Don't use the American fighters in the PI for defense..at first set them on Naval Attack or Ground Attack at low altitude with CAP at ZERO%. If they go up to play with the Zeros they won't come back. It's a crapshoot though. If they're bombing and run into LRCAP they may get chewed up anyways but probably not as badly cause LRCAP wears out the Zeros too and LRCAP is always weaker in numbers unless it's set to range 0-1 or so.


Excellent advice!

I wish I had seen that before I started my AAR.


_____________________________

"Never take counsel of your fears."

Tho. Jackson

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 14
RE: Some questions - 4/25/2007 7:56:05 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

... Put some PBYs at Bataan and disperse your fighters around to the smaller bases...


You dont want to do this. Get your planes off Luzon. ALL of them, and as quickly as possible. Every airplane on Luzon eats supply every time it flies a mission. The longer your supplies last, the longer YOU last. Just that simple.

Edit: Side note, if your planes arent there, the Jap isnt likely to bomb your airfields with as many planes (assuming he is bombing your active airfields) thus saving more supply by not making them as big of a target as well.

quote:

Don't use the American fighters in the PI for defense..at first set them on Naval Attack or Ground Attack at low altitude with CAP at ZERO%. If they go up to play with the Zeros they won't come back. It's a crapshoot though. If they're bombing and run into LRCAP they may get chewed up anyways but probably not as badly cause LRCAP wears out the Zeros too and LRCAP is always weaker in numbers unless it's set to range 0-1 or so.


Again, I disagree with this. P40's only carry 100 pounders and wont do significant damage to any ships. Best they can do is put them in the shop for a few weeks. Japs at start arent exactly hurting for shipping, so this will be to no effect. Killing Jap pilots is always a plus. Kill them every chance you get. This means flying CAP over your ships and bases. The smaller your air unit is, the less PPs it costs to change command. I never pull my fighters out of the PI until they are down to 2 to 4 airplanes. THEN I change command, and fly them back to Darwin to reequip and rest up.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 4/25/2007 8:03:49 AM >

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 15
RE: Some questions - 4/25/2007 12:47:17 PM   
cantona


Posts: 239
Joined: 4/29/2006
From: Gibraltar
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Use the US S-CLASS subs to hunt for Japanese shipping. Check their COs to make sure they have high naval rating and middling aggression rating (high aggression will get them beat up too badly too fast).

The subs with names are better used moving fragments of the larger (aviation support # is the critical attribute) base forces in the PI to safety in Australia - you will need them there later and you won't have the supplies to reform them any further to the front. Turn OFF replacements for everything in the PI but once you get them them to OZ turn them ON again. You can also get fragments of base forces out on single ship TFs on the first turn or two but after that it gets pretty dicey. Make sure you pull out a fragment by sub too for any unit that loads on a surface ship. And don't hang around loading...Click LOAD ONLY TROOPS...then click CANCEL LOAD TROOPS and set the destination. Route the ships to different hexes and set homeport to some place in the DEI...sorta lets you zig-zag and prevents an IJN SCTF from landing in a hex with 15 one ship TFs and sinking them all one by one. Put all those Manila Minesweeps into an ASW TF and set to patrol off Manila...probably won't get the sub there but will attract Bettys and Nells away from the more valuable troopships, tenders, and tankers.

As far as air forces are concerned...turn off replacements in the PI. Abandon Clark Field as an airbase...it gets hammered too badly on the first turn to be of any use. Put some PBYs at Bataan and disperse your fighters around to the smaller bases...a squadron or 2 of fighters should head for the DEI to reform right off too even if they have to do it plane by plane. Pull the B-17s back to Java...replace them with some Hudsons or Martins. If you want ships then go in at 1000-2000 ft (a 250 lb bomb can make Ryuho (CVLs) go away anyways even if it doesn't sink them). The sdrn's morale will suffer but they will get some hits and their experience will go up...then pull back that sqdrn, replace with a green sqdrn and repeat...when you pull back you can merge the depleted sqdrns and have some decent sqdrns to fight for Java with.

Don't use the American fighters in the PI for defense..at first set them on Naval Attack or Ground Attack at low altitude with CAP at ZERO%. If they go up to play with the Zeros they won't come back. It's a crapshoot though. If they're bombing and run into LRCAP they may get chewed up anyways but probably not as badly cause LRCAP wears out the Zeros too and LRCAP is always weaker in numbers unless it's set to range 0-1 or so.



thanks very much spencer. id never have thought of shifting the martin untis to PI to get xp. thanks very much. The fighters on naval attack is a novel idea as well cheers mate

_____________________________

1966 was a great year for english football...eric was born

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Post #: 16
RE: Some questions - 4/26/2007 4:33:56 AM   
KPAX


Posts: 735
Joined: 6/3/2004
From: Where the heart is; Home of the Fighting Irish
Status: offline 		excellent advise !

_____________________________

"War makes Heros on both sides." Hero (the movie)



Thanks !!

KPAX

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Post #: 17
RE: Some questions - 4/26/2007 6:13:21 AM   
Mynok


Posts: 12108
Joined: 11/30/2002
Status: offline
Manila is the best PI defense location simply because it is urban terrain. Always withdraw there and fortify.

Any Allied planes operating in the Philippines will be slaughtered by Japanese LBA. There is no need for them there. Pull them out to Java or the Solomons area.

This is advice from a Japanese-only player.

(in reply to KPAX)
Post #: 18
RE: Some questions - 4/26/2007 6:23:30 AM   
Yamato hugger

 

Posts: 5475
Joined: 10/5/2004
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mynok


Manila is the best PI defense location simply because it is urban terrain. Always withdraw there and fortify.

Any Allied planes operating in the Philippines will be slaughtered by Japanese LBA. There is no need for them there. Pull them out to Java or the Solomons area.

This is advice from a Japanese-only player.



Actually, I disagree with this as well. Bataan is much better for several reasons.

1) you can defend at Clark and when you are finally forced to retreat, you retreat to Bataan. To defend Manila, you have to give Clark up without a fight.

2) Bataan and Clark are within C-47 range of Wuchow in China, Manila is not. Easier to air evac people out of Bataan.

3) Manila starts the game as a level 1 fort, Bataan is a level 3 fort. This offsets the advantage of the urban terrain.

4) Far more units already have their objectives set for Bataan than Manila (namely the 31st regt and the 4th marines) meaning they will put up a much better defense in Bataan than Manila.

Keep your planes on the center islands. Iilio and Cebu (however they are spelled). For Jap planes to get to you there, they have to fly further and increases their chance of operational losses. Any pilots you can kill are gold. Take every chance you can get to hurt them. This puts them back far as you can to be safe, yet close enough to fly CAP over things that need it. Dont pull your planes out of PI until you have to.

< Message edited by Yamato hugger -- 4/26/2007 6:31:50 AM >

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Post #: 19
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