Need advice on patching databases for 3.8

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Need advice on patching databases for 3.8

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Harpoon 3 - Advanced Naval Warfare >> Harpoon 3 ANW Support >> Need advice on patching databases for 3.8

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Need advice on patching databases for 3.8 - 7/9/2007 4:15:20 PM

BurntFingers

Posts: 155
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

I must admit I'm enjoying the 3.8 patch, but I'm a bit stumped as to how to change the entries for ECM and ESM systems (which seem to have changed in 3.8, according to the manual).

So far I'm reading entries in the supplied databases and seeing how these affect in game equipment (I'm not 100% convinced they work on the supplied databases) but clearly DB2000 will need a lot of work to get it 3.8 compliant.

Any ideas? Is any one else even trying to do this?

Post #: 1

RE: Need advice on patching databases for 3.8 - 7/9/2007 4:47:26 PM

Dimitris

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

Is this a DB2K-specific request, or have you witnessed the same problems with the built-in DBs too?

_____________________________

Facebook
Twitter

(in reply to BurntFingers)

Post #: 2

RE: Need advice on patching databases for 3.8 - 7/9/2007 5:15:15 PM

BurntFingers

Posts: 155
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

Sorry - I am trying to run before I can crawl. What I'm trying to do is run 90s and 2000 scenarios using V10 of the DB2000 on ANW patched to 3.8.

Everything seems to work well, except for the ECM and ESM defects. ECM just don't work (presume negative values are being generated) and ESM is just... odd. It seems to favour older equipment and newer higher tech fighters just can't detect anything.

Having studied the HarpoonHQ forums, it would seem that DB2000 is being gradually updated to ANW 3.8, although the earliest versions will be availbale sooner than the later 90s/2000 version of the DB2000.

Mind you, it's academic for the moment anyway. Because I'm having to use a reserve monitor and can't get to the 1024 X 768 DB editor for a couple of days.

(in reply to Dimitris)

Post #: 3

RE: Need advice on patching databases for 3.8 - 7/9/2007 10:40:55 PM

Dimitris

Posts: 13282
Joined: 7/31/2005
Status: offline

http://www.harpoonhq.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=4793

_____________________________

Facebook
Twitter

(in reply to BurntFingers)

Post #: 4

RE: Need advice on patching databases for 3.8 - 7/23/2007 6:45:48 PM

BurntFingers

Posts: 155
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VCDH

ECM is a work in progress.� Right now it adds (or removes, depending on the setting) interference that prevents detection from happening.� Think of it as trying to talk when the radio is playing.� Too loud and you can't hear anything, too low and you can't hear the radio while you're talking.� We have to find a happy balance and it's so far eluding us.� I would like to figure out a formula for it so we can simulate it on an excel sheet but all we can come up with right now is a specific range of values for a specific radar.� If the ECM value is too high, it blinds everything, and if it's too low it actually gives the radar an assist with detection.�

OK. So it's basically adding a noise factor to radar detect chances, the amount of noise being dependent on the range from OECM-radar and the level of ECM being the main values. Things like lobeshape, atmospherics and topological effects aren't modelled.

Now, are the flags which determine the types of radar affected (Pulse, Pulse Doppler, Continuous Wave etc) modelled? Should I set the flags for the radars?

Nobody seems to do this, and it strikes me that either (a) there is no game code to support it or (b) the type of radars affected by an ECM system is usually classified. You might get hearsay evidence but it's moot anyway. So should I bother?

quote:

ORIGINAL: VCDH
ESM is a little easier to understand but you have to also know the various types of ESM gear there are.� There's COMINT/SIGINT, ESM, RWRs and DF gear.� COMINT/SIGINT is by far the most sensititve but because ANW lacks the ability to home in on enemy comms then it's moot (for now).� ESM is usually more sensitive and has a long range than RWRs.� RWRs are usually set for a limited number of bands and are meant to provide warning only and no information.�

Could this be part of the problem with the sub detecting everything by ESM bug? The code doesn't look at mast height (less than 1 metre, being attached to a periscope) or the fact that databases have subs with highly sensitive ESM detectors and not RWR detectors?

quote:

ORIGINAL: VCDH

Basically you'll have to play with the values until you get a detection range that you like.� Start off with a generational type of model as opposed to sensor specific ones and that will give you an idea of how to proceed.

Like I said elsewhere, I took the values from DB2000 6.3. and got fairly convincing results modelling intercept/no intercept. Although I had to change some negative values to positive (deleted the minus sign) on many systems.

I've still got about 10,000 questions on modding dbs... but it seems like the only answer I'll get to most of them is "mess about with it until it works". So I'll do just that.

Post #: 5

RE: Need advice on patching databases for 3.8 - 7/23/2007 11:46:04 PM

DeSade

Posts: 156
Joined: 3/1/2004
Status: offline

I would love to see math behind ECM in H3 ANW, is it possible Dale? Anyway, few questions:

1. I understand that ECM strength is�divided by distance (square of?) between ECM emitter and search radar, correct? What about superposition of few ECM sources, is it calculated before all other calculations and resulting "overall ECM level" is applied, or all are aplied independently?
2. Is ECM strength applied to final "detection chance", or influence radar base Search Input (or Output?) values?
3. How is calculated burn through value?
4. How friendly ECM degradate own units sensors? Is it similiar to hostile, but with some divider, or is it not modeled anymore?

I would be very grateful for�answers, as I have some ideas and would like to check usefulness of them before going public :)
Oh, and BTW - where could I ger H3 ANW Platform, Radar and Sonar Assistants sheets? I noticed there are no more download links on AGSI site?

< Message edited by DeSade -- 7/24/2007 12:34:07 AM >

Post #: 6

RE: Need advice on patching databases for 3.8 - 7/25/2007 6:52:54 PM

BurntFingers

Posts: 155
Joined: 6/28/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: VCDH

You sound as if you've had some experiance with these systems. I generally apply a generational rule to ESM sets. And since the radar horizon is modeled then you get that limitation as well. Keep that in mind when you are looking for detection. If you think something isn't right, let us know and we'll look into it.

[/QUOTE]

The credit belongs to Ragner Emsoy in this case. I just used his data for my own studies.

Subs can detect ESM targets at hundreds of NMs. So I'm pretty sure the mast modelling part is up the creek.

Thanks for the link.

Post #: 7

Page: [1]

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Modern] >> Harpoon 3 - Advanced Naval Warfare >> Harpoon 3 ANW Support >> Need advice on patching databases for 3.8

Page: [1]