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RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 5:23:48 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		If it ever gets expanded...

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RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 5:24:23 PM   
spence

 

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Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		I know the PV-1 Ventura never carried a torpedo on an operational mission (in US service anyways) but the other day I was reading some of the squadron histories of different PV-1 Sqdrns and found mention of a crew lost during squadron training for torpedo attack (they just got too low and flew into the water apparently). Just an bit of trivia.

My father flew PVs but in the Atlantic looking for U-boats. I asked him about it and he said he was aware that the PV-1/PV-2s were capable of carrying a torpedo but he never practiced torpedo bombing in either his operational training squadron at Beaufort, SC or once he deployed overseas with his active squadron. His attack training focused on glide bombing from relatively low altitude and rocket/strafing runs.

< Message edited by spence -- 8/2/2007 5:34:11 PM >

(in reply to TheElf)
Post #: 32
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 5:27:35 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Could the Ventura even carry a torpedo? I would have thought its bomb bay wasn't long enough? Maybe externally...

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Post #: 33
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 5:38:53 PM   
spence

 

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Status: offline 		Yes the Ventura could carry a torpedo...it was bigger, faster, longer ranged and more heavily armed than its predecessor the Hudson (called the PBO in the USN). It's roots were similar though in that it was a modified airliner BUT the airliner was a bigger, faster and longer legged airliner than the one the Hudson derived from (A Lockheed Model 18 versus a Lockheed Model 14 for the Hudson (IIRC)). In Stock Matrix completely blew the stats on this plane.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 34
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 5:45:52 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: spence

Yes the Ventura could carry a torpedo...it was bigger, faster, longer ranged and more heavily armed than its predecessor the Hudson (called the PBO in the USN). It's roots were similar though in that it was a modified airliner BUT the airliner was a bigger, faster and longer legged airliner than the one the Hudson derived from (A Lockheed Model 18 versus a Lockheed Model 14 for the Hudson (IIRC)). In Stock Matrix completely blew the stats on this plane.


Yes, we know...

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Post #: 35
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 5:46:53 PM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
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Status: offline 		The torpedo was carried internally on the PV-1 but it may be that the bomb bay doors were cracked open when carrying one. The PV-2 Harpoon had a slightly larger bomb bay to carry something but I am not sure if the "something" was the Tiny Tim 11" rocket rather than a torpedo. The PV-1 could also carry the Tiny Tim but I know it didn't fit completely in the bomb bay. I have a Squadron/Signal Book on the PVs which has photos of both the PV-1/PV-2 carrying both torpedos and the Tiny Tim. At work now so can't check.

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 36
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 5:54:03 PM   
Feinder


Posts: 6589
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From: Land o' Lakes, FL
Status: offline 		I would say almost certainly a torp would be external. Ventura looks to be about the size of Boston.

But the B-26s at Midway carried torpedos (externally) from some hasty field mods, so I would think it wouldn't be that big of an issue to mount it.

Now, finding a pilot TRAINED in dropping a torpedo (subject to altitude and speed restrictions, and properly guessing the "lead" for a moving ship), might be a bit more difficult. Then of course, EVERY Japanese bomber pilot possesed this training...

-F-


Edit -
quote:

The torpedo was carried internally on the PV-1 but it may be that the bomb bay doors were cracked open when carrying one.


Interesting! Would love a pic (Ventura goes in the purdy plane catagory)!

< Message edited by Feinder -- 8/2/2007 5:55:44 PM >

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RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 6:15:46 PM   
TheElf


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

If it ever gets expanded...

Ye, of little faith

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Post #: 38
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 6:20:07 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline 		No... Me of the same sort of hopes as you, but of no confirmed facts yet...

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Post #: 39
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 6:25:43 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Helpless

quote:


ahh, damn... looks like most I´ve written was wrong. I knew it is a floatplane, I even posted some pics in my AAR when your "obsolete" floatplanes put some torps in Nagato...


once again you wrote everything wrong.. in WITP T-IVs is neither FP nor biplane (at least on any planesides i know)..




I´m not responsible for the "design" of this game... thank god...









Yes, THANK GOD!


at least I would have read ONE or even two books before starting working on it....


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Post #: 40
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 6:51:09 PM   
Terminus


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Status: offline 		Winnie the Pooh and Harry Potter doesn't count, Ron...

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Post #: 41
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 6:55:25 PM   
spence

 

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Status: offline 		The caption to this photo reads "loading a torpedo on a PV-2 in the Aleutians for anti-shipping strikes in the Kuriles in 1942". It's not correct since there was no such thing as a PV-2 in 1942 and my PV booklet says there were never any PV-1/PV-2 operational missions with torpedos. It does look like a relatively cold place these guys are at from their dress.



It is a Harpoon though (PV-2): you can see the slight bulge of the expanded bomb bay at the forward end. I also found a reference to torpedo carriage by PV-1s and PV-2s which says that the torpedo didn't quite fit in the bomb bay of the PV-1 but could be carried with the bomb bay doors ajar slightly.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by spence -- 8/2/2007 7:57:34 PM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 42
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 7:26:40 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Winnie the Pooh and Harry Potter doesn't count, Ron...


ahh, so they read the wrong books. Perhaps someone smart as you could tell me what books they should have read...


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Post #: 43
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 8:14:14 PM   
kaleun

 

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Status: offline 		And here we go again.....

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Post #: 44
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 9:17:51 PM   
ChezDaJez


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quote:

I would say almost certainly a torp would be external. Ventura looks to be about the size of Boston.


It was carried internally.

quote:

Engines: Two Pratt & Whitney R-2800-31 air-cooled radial engines rated at 2000 hp for takeoff, 1600 hp at 11,900 feet. Performance: Maximum speed 322 mph at 13,800 feet, 296 mph at sea level. Cruising speed 170 mph. Landing speed 91 mph. Initial climb rate 2230 feet per minute. Service ceiling 26,300 feet. Normal range 1360 miles with one torpedo, 1660 miles with six 325-lb depth charges. Dimensions: Wingspan 65 feet 6 inches, length 51 feet 9 inches, height 11 feet 11 inches, wing area 551 square feet. Weights: 20,197 pounds empty, 31,077 pounds loaded, 34,000 pounds maximum. Armament Two fixed forward-firing 0.50-in machine guns, twin 0.50-in guns in dorsal turret, and two flexible 0.30-inch machine guns in the ventral position. A pack containing three 0.50-inch machine guns could be added underneath the nose. 3000 pounds of bombs, six 325-lb depth charges, or one torpedo could be carried in the internal bomb bay.



Chez


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VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
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ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to Feinder)
Post #: 45
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 9:20:34 PM   
Terminus


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quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

And here we go again.....


No, we're not...

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Post #: 46
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 9:21:07 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
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From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ChezDaJez


quote:

I would say almost certainly a torp would be external. Ventura looks to be about the size of Boston.


It was carried internally.

quote:

Engines: Two Pratt & Whitney R-2800-31 air-cooled radial engines rated at 2000 hp for takeoff, 1600 hp at 11,900 feet. Performance: Maximum speed 322 mph at 13,800 feet, 296 mph at sea level. Cruising speed 170 mph. Landing speed 91 mph. Initial climb rate 2230 feet per minute. Service ceiling 26,300 feet. Normal range 1360 miles with one torpedo, 1660 miles with six 325-lb depth charges. Dimensions: Wingspan 65 feet 6 inches, length 51 feet 9 inches, height 11 feet 11 inches, wing area 551 square feet. Weights: 20,197 pounds empty, 31,077 pounds loaded, 34,000 pounds maximum. Armament Two fixed forward-firing 0.50-in machine guns, twin 0.50-in guns in dorsal turret, and two flexible 0.30-inch machine guns in the ventral position. A pack containing three 0.50-inch machine guns could be added underneath the nose. 3000 pounds of bombs, six 325-lb depth charges, or one torpedo could be carried in the internal bomb bay.



Chez



That's pretty interesting...

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Post #: 47
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 9:26:33 PM   
spence

 

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quote:

Normal range 1360 miles with one torpedo


I don't think an Allied plane with this standard loadout/range would be received all that well by certain segments of the WitP Community

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Post #: 48
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 9:37:07 PM   
ChezDaJez


Posts: 3436
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Status: offline 		Personally, I wouldn't care. By the time it becomes available in significant numbers, the Japanese fleet is pretty much screwed anyways. The real issue of course is that the crews didn't train for torpedo attacks so it would be somewhat unrealisitc to see them operate in that role though not impossible.

That's one of the reasons I would love to see a dual-experience rating for aircrews, i.e. bombing/torpedo or land/sea attack... similar to the way ships have day and night ratings. Of course, that would require WitP II due to the code changes... <sigh>

Chez

_____________________________

Ret Navy AWCS (1972-1998)
VP-5, Jacksonville, Fl 1973-78
ASW Ops Center, Rota, Spain 1978-81
VP-40, Mt View, Ca 1981-87
Patrol Wing 10, Mt View, CA 1987-90
ASW Ops Center, Adak, Ak 1990-92
NRD Seattle 1992-96
VP-46, Whidbey Isl, Wa 1996-98

(in reply to spence)
Post #: 49
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/2/2007 11:11:29 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

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Status: offline 		Kind of a chicken or the egg question tho isn't it? If an intact IJN was still around in '44 i think they would have been trained for torpedo attack.

Even untrained PBYs launched a night torpedo attack at Midway and actually hit something, so its not like it was beyond the realm.

(in reply to ChezDaJez)
Post #: 50
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/3/2007 2:56:40 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
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Status: offline 		PV-1 launching torpedo




Attachment (1)

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 51
RE: List of torpedo carrying planes - 8/3/2007 3:01:32 AM   
spence

 

Posts: 5400
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: Vancouver, Washington
Status: offline 		The picture actually shows an 11.75" Tiny Tim but the mounting is supposed to be a modified form of the mounting for a torpedo. The larger bomb bay on the Harpoon could accomodate 2 Tiny Tims which would be launched 1 at a time requiring 2 firing runs.






This is a PV-1. The tail fin of the Tiny Tim stuck out of the bomb bay. Apparently a torpedo would fit completely within the bomb bay (according to squadron/signal publications no 48)

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by spence -- 8/3/2007 3:03:36 AM >

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