Slitherine

quote:

ORIGINAL: WanderingHead

another possible tweak is to change the criteria for which tech fields can be stolen. Right now, you have to have at least one point invested towards that field for it to be eligible. This is fairly meaningless, I routinely invest exactly one point just to enable theft.

Instead, the requirement could be that you have invested in that tech THIS TURN, i.e. you are actively researching it.

9. If Random (Attacking Spies *2) > Random (Defending Security) then technology can be pillaged. 
10. If Random (Attacking Spies) > Random ((Defending Security) * (1 + (number of eligible techs behind)/2)) then 
gain 1 research point in technology you are behind in.

probability(#10 satisfied) = att/def/(2+N)
   = att/def/3  (N=1)
   = att/def/4  (N=2)
   = att/def/5  (N=3)
   = att/def/6  (N=4)
  ~= att/def/N  (N large)

ave #techs passing #10 = N * probability(#10 satisfied) 
   = 1/3 * att/def  (N=1)
   = 2/4 * att/def  (N=2)
   = 3/5 * att/def  (N=3)
   = 4/6 * att/def  (N=4)
   = 5/7 * att/def  (N=5)
  ~= att/def  (N large)

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Art
The formulae above which limit the actual steals to 3-4 out of 10 - do they treat each tech identically (i.e. same probability) or are the first that are calculated by the game engine preffered? There should be an equal chance of each tech being stolen, I am not sure just from looking at the formulae.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marshall Art
If you cannot (or are unwilling) to limit expenditures per turn for spies, maybe "rolling formulae" that reduce spying efficiency each turn would be an easier solution which would force players to keep investing into spies?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Forwarn45

I appreciate the effort you are making to consider tweaks to the game, but I just don't think this is an area that needs much change other than increasing Japanese security a bit.

I think that the more areas the enemy is ahead, the more opportunity for advancement by stealing secrets and/or reverse-engineering captured equipment from the battlefield. I don't know if I like the idea of "focused" spying. Although I might be persuaded it was a good idea to consider some type of change if the game was still in development, it just seems that the spy system has worked fairly well through a lot of play! The way the game plays, spying can be a long-term investment with somewhat mixed rewards as you can miss some turns due to the security roll, and then returns diminish as you begin to catch up to the enemy.

Other than modifying Japanese security, the only type of suggested change I think I could get behind (which wouldn't affect balance, just the dynamics of investig in spies) - would be some type of limit on the per-turn investment in spies, security, sigint, etc.

Just my 2 cents.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron

In my most current setup of Uncommon Valor I'm using the following values.
Germany- 12 security (was 10).
             10 sigInt (was 6).
Japan-     15 security (was 8).
             5 sigInt (was 4).
The rest unchanged.

The stronger Axis security is intended to do three things. One, help prevent tech theft. Two, help preserve sigInt and spy levels. Third, to more aggressively knock down Allied levels. The sigInt increases help sustain some level a little longer. In the original scenarios it was common to see Japan's sigInt level brought to zero before 1942.

Overall, I see nothing wrong with boosting both Axis in this way, since bonuses here do not necessarily mean a higher chance of AV or a victory shift. It just gives the allies one extra area of the game to have a slightly harder battle to overcome. In an even game, the Allies always have lots of supply mid to late game, and when that is spent on the sigInt and spy screen the Axis numbers really take a dive. To be fair, that trend is historical, but I feel the Allied effort to achieve that in this game has been to easy. Hence my reasons to increase more than just the Jap security to 15. 

I feel that Axis players would now be more inclined to consider investing more here, especially Japan. At 8 security it was to low to consider a serious bump up due to cost. That production was best used elsewhere IMO. But at 15 sec, bumping to say 20 where an impact would be felt looks like a possible choice now. If the Axis both shoot for 20 security early they could really bring the Allied levels down to were they could not catch up until late 42. Of coarse the Axis would have little tech sharing using this strat. That's minor anyway. To argue that increasing the Axis security hurts them in this way is missing the big picture. It helps the Axis in the mid to late game which is needed since balance there is a bit tilted to the Allies.



It been said a few times that spys win over security rather easily for their cost. The simplest thing to try would be to bump their cost from 3 to 5. That's all that may be needed. The KISS principle.

quote:

ORIGINAL: MrQuiet

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lebatron
In my most current setup of Uncommon Valor I'm using the following values.
Germany- 12 security (was 10).
             10 sigInt (was 6).
Japan-     15 security (was 8).
             5 sigInt (was 4).
The rest unchanged.

Those starting axis levels look good to me and I would have to agree with Lebatrons reasoning.