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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista

 
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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 2:08:51 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		If Linux ever really took off and a majority of users ran it, it would have just as many flaws and problems. There are a few reasons for this.
1. Hackers and the like don't target whats not popular. Its all about the numbers and proliferation.
2. Today the average Linux user is far more PC Savvy than the average Windows user. Knowing what your doing helps a lot regardless of OS.
3. Statistically speaking some published reports actually say Linux has a history of more bugs and security problems. They just don't get much media attention. This was for the year 2005 or 2006 I believe.
4. Average Linux box for end user experience usage is far better hardware.
5. Less software on average is installed on a linux box. Less software = less problems and bugs.


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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 2:34:24 AM   
sabre100

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		Veldor -

Very nicely put,  I agree with you 100%, people need to keep that in mind.  Same argument you get from the Apple crowd that Mac OS X is so much more stable and better then Windows.  Now don't get me wrong I have Macbook Pro with OS X as well as Windows hardware and I do love Apple but if Microsoft had a closed hardware platfrom like Apple does and only supported certain hardware then I think it would be a different story.  If the roles were reveresed between apple and microsoft where apple had to support every known hardware out there as best they can I think they would be in the same boat as windows.  Not that I support Windows or Apple or Linux I am neutral.  I was a big Linux fan before but now I think Linux killed it for me there are so many different Distro's it just gets totally ridicoulous and not to mention confusing for new users,  they release a new version like what every 4-6 months with some minor change like KDE 3.1.1 to 3.1.2 or some weird number like thar using KDE as an example here only and this justifies a new version  of the distro ?  Only Red Hat finally is doing things right by releasing a new version every couple years I think ?  Then as far as updates you get so many for Linux also maybe even more then Windows if you really look close at it. 

Just my 2 cents.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 62
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 2:53:44 AM   
leastonh1


Posts: 879
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: West Yorkshire, England
Status: offline 		Yes, there would be flaws and problems with Linux, I agree. However, the difference is:

1. Linux costs you nothing other than the download and blank disc.
2. You can run it on almost any hardware, regardless of age.
3. You aren't forced to run software you don't want or need.
4. It's far more secure than Windows.
5. No viruses!
6. Honesty, openness and integrity from the devs.
7. Choice - literally hundreds of variations on a theme.
8. No licensing minefield compared to Windows.
11. Open source!
12. Wine.
13. Crossover Office.
14. Virtualisation.
15. Compiz.
16. Live distributions.
17. USB stick installation!
18. No bloatware!
19. Regular updates & bug fixes.
20. No file fragmentation.

And so on...There are probably lists just as long with problems on them!

Linux is no more difficult to use than Windows. It's just different. I don't agree with your take on an average Linux user either. Historically, that may be true, but with the advent of Ubuntu, I think it's a misconception now. I disagree with your point 1 too. Hackers do target Linux yes, but they just don't get anywhere unless you are dumb enough to log in as root. No user in Linux has admin rights, which is why hacking is harder and why viruses simply don't work or are pointless to write. It's got nothing to do with popularity.

Your point 5 doesn't make sense to me. How do you know less software is installed? If anything, my Linux box has more on it because it's all free and I can afford to install lots of software.

I don't think Linux is perfect, far from it. I do think it's a good OS and a definite viable alternative to Windows, even now. Linux may have more problems, I don't know. But, generally, you don't have to wait months for serious bugs to be sorted.

Sabre, MacOS isn't free or open source. It's a commercial product, so how can you compare with Linux in that way? The number of Linux distros is great. Want a dedicated firewall? Easy, download one. Want an OS specifically targetted at musicians or kids? No problem. You can even install your fave distro, change everything to your hearts content and then remaster the disc(s)! You then have your own OS. Try that with Windows. How can regular releases be problematic? Linux devs release often to fix bugs and introduce new/more features and software. Windows has a monthly cycle of bug and security patch releases too. So why is it a problem for Linux, but not Windows?

Regards,
Jim


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Post #: 63
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 3:06:17 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Jim_H

1. Linux costs you nothing other than the download and blank disc.



How can we get excited about a product that its creators place no value on? ;)



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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 3:10:41 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		I thought number six would be a good reason to get excited.

6. Honesty, openness and integrity from the devs.

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Post #: 65
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 3:20:33 AM   
mjk428

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 6/15/2002
From: Western USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Zap

I thought number six would be a good reason to get excited.

6. Honesty, openness and integrity from the devs.


Totally unimportant to me as a home user. As a business user, I've never been mistreated by any OS maker.

Anyway, my previous post was just a joke.

I really don't spend much time worrying about any OS - and that's a good thing IMO.

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Post #: 66
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 3:40:19 AM   
Zap


Posts: 3639
Joined: 12/6/2004
From: LAS VEGAS TAKE A CHANCE
Status: offline 		"I really don't spend much time worrying about any OS - and that's a good thing IMO."


Agreed, I just like that motivation(honesty and integrity) by anyone in the business field. Those virtues tend to keep a business man(company) from cheating his/her buyers. Like a frivolous OS upgrade. (honesty and integrity)Its one of my soap boxes I get on.

< Message edited by Zap -- 12/6/2007 4:27:44 AM >

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 3:58:40 AM   
sabre100

 

Posts: 393
Joined: 5/23/2004
Status: offline 		Jim_H

I know and understand that Mac OSX is not freeware or open source I just paid a pretty penny for the upgrade to Leopard.  However my point is that you have Linux and Mac users bashing windows and if the roles were reveresed would it be the other way around ?   

Also as I said I used Linux before and I used to like it now it just a windows wanna be and nothing excites me about it.  Also from history if you don't have any 3rd party support you will never survive or make a big impact just look at Nintendo 64, IBM OS/2, etc.  Yes Linux is free and I can get freedom however if I can not run the software and games and do what I need with an OS then what good is it for ?  Yes I know there are many open source software that compares to commercial one's like gimp, openoffice, etc.  But in the real world if I want to use Photoshop, Games like Matrix sells, and so many more apps out there that only runs in Windows then what good is the OS and yes there is Crossover and similar for Linux but they are limited, and leave a LOT to be desired and only work sometimes and with limited amount of software.  Sure I can browse the internet and read email and if that is all I do that is fine but I want to be able to run that cool app or game that runs only on windows.  Until companies develop software that majority use and make games for Linux I dont think it will get very wide-spread.  Sure Ubuntu is cool and easy to use but it is the same linux that tries to be a Windows clone minus all the cool games and software that run on windows.






< Message edited by sabre100 -- 12/6/2007 4:44:33 AM >

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Post #: 68
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 7:19:32 AM   
anvl

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		I have to agree with sabre 100. My experiences exactly.. with one more issue

hardware is a problem. From contemporary graphics cards to modems.. sure,,you can get a linux modem,,and it may work.. otherwise it takes a lot of time just to get a modem working.. and then there is the graphics card,, even when the big two come out with drivers,, the card is not always fully functional.

yea,, yea, i know,, some people can.. but,, there are many who cannot as well,, and even those being pretty computer savvy as well...

but hehe,, I'll prolly try it again sometime soon..

On my next 'puter build, i am going to use the older one to connect to the internet,downloads,email,etc,,and this will be some version of linux..

My win box will be for games,graphics,photos,and all the other stuff that linux just doesn't have top quality software support for...

gimp for graphics? naa,, not for me,, same with whatever nle's are avalable for my camcorder,,just cannot compete with the top three or more avalable in windows...

but there are more free Go games for linux than windows,, hehe go figure...

anvil

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RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/6/2007 11:01:11 AM   
leastonh1


Posts: 879
Joined: 2/12/2005
From: West Yorkshire, England
Status: offline 		I'm not going to argue with anything you guys wrote in reply, because you're right. I run both Linux and Windows and they both have faults and plus points. Linux isn't better than Windows, it's different and does some things very well. I don't like Windows because MS charge so much for an unfinished product that is full of unnecessary software and unnecessary bugs. If Linux had the same resources as Windows for development and Windows had the same integrity and development philosophy, we'd be in a much better position as consumers. I don't know enough about Macs to comment, but I know it's supposed to be a good OS.

I guess none of us will be completely happy until things start to change and MS do lose their monopoly status. I'd be happy using Windows if all the things I've written were changed

Regards,
Jim


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2nd Lt. George Rice: Looks like you guys are going to be surrounded.
Richard Winters: We're paratroopers, Lieutenant, we're supposed to be surrounded.

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Post #: 70
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/12/2007 12:57:59 PM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline 		Y'all might find this interesting:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/id,140283/article.html

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Post #: 71
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/12/2007 5:05:09 PM   
ravinhood


Posts: 3891
Joined: 10/23/2003
Status: offline 		Y'all?

(in reply to Charles2222)
Post #: 72
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/12/2007 5:44:15 PM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Y'all?



He IS from Texas!

You pokin fun ata us suthanahs?

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Post #: 73
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 12:33:26 AM   
BlindOldUmp


Posts: 104
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: The North Coast of the USA
Status: offline 		AFAIK Home or Office Basic is worthless. M$ pulled too much out of the "Premium" versions to cheapen the price. I think they should just drop the "Basic" version and upgrade EVERYBODY to "Premium. 'Course that will cost some hardware money so you may disagree with me I have "Ultimate" on my newest home personal machine and nothing less than Office Premium on the work machines. Some of our work machines are 64bit as well. Runs well on Quad Core with 4 GB of memory. No arguments. Now - I REALLY don't like the UAC but it has gotten used to me at home. Work machines are a mix of people who have turned off UAC (Most) and some who are still arguing with it for daily tasks. We update ours a lot with the software we develop. and are trying to figure out how the Doctors who use our software can deal with Vista. I'm just the techy so don't ask development questions but mostly I agree with the guys who said that the OS is OK if you actually buy a machine or upgrade a machine so it has enough horsepower for Vista. Of course we have nothing but 2Gb and Dual or Quad Cores here because OUR software wants it to run fast enough for the Docs :-) Even our normal day to day XP machines will run Vista just fine though my old home machines won't. I'm building an new XP machine and turning that one into a server for "educational" purposes. ...

(in reply to MrBoats)
Post #: 74
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 12:49:53 AM   
ShadowB


Posts: 86
Joined: 8/14/2004
From: Buenos Aires
Status: offline 		My current OS is Windows XP Professional, SP2. As a gamer, I find no use for either Apple nor Linux. The vast majority of games aren't compatible with them (same goes for some applications), so all the improved efficiency and the fact you get the most out of your hardware is rather irrelevant if you don't have anything to exploit that advantage with.

Granted, as a workstation (for, say, serious graphics and video editing), at least Apple is a much better option than Windows for the aforementioned efficiency and Mac OSX's stability.

As for Vista, well, I totally agree it's laughable. It's perhaps even worse than WinXP when it came out. However, I know it'll gradually improve and be as good as XP is right now. It's been the same deal with every Windows to date, as far as I know.

< Message edited by ShadowB -- 12/13/2007 12:50:00 AM >

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Post #: 75
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 9:33:31 AM   
Charles2222


Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Y'all?


I think that's about the only southerism y'all will get out of me, but I do use it somewhat profusely. It sounds better than "you all" anyway. One thing that sort of boggles my mind, is I'm a pretty big Three Stooges fan, and they did some Civl War era shorts, and when they were posing as southerners they kept saying "you all" all the time, which virtually nobody says that down south. It certainly did sound southern they way they used "you all" but it's words that aren't ever used. I guess way down south in New York City the southerners say that there.

Look away
Get away
Get a way-tress, we're hungry


< Message edited by Charles_22 -- 12/13/2007 9:35:32 AM >

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Post #: 76
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 10:18:42 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		Goodness me PC World is milking the hype wagon for all its worth in that article.

Despite the big bold headline, the article doesn't even relate to it. The guy is going back to XP because his sound driver won't work and he admits it could be because of his configuration error?!

@ Skip:

Are you referring to Vista or Office? I'm confused. If it's Office 2007 you're talking about, I agree I don't like it either. Too many UI changes for no point but I'm stuck with it now.

Btw, Vista presented me with 200+ megs of Windows Upgrades the other day. Office 2007 SP1 came up included for download too. Vista SP1 is close...

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Post #: 77
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 12:43:49 PM   
JamesM

 

Posts: 1017
Joined: 8/28/2000
From: QLD, Australia
Status: offline 		I see that Microsoft has release win XP service pack 3.

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Post #: 78
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 4:34:52 PM   
BlindOldUmp


Posts: 104
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: The North Coast of the USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker

@ Skip:

Are you referring to Vista or Office? I'm confused. If it's Office 2007 you're talking about, I agree I don't like it either. Too many UI changes for no point but I'm stuck with it now.


Office 2007 is a hit below the belt. Complete waste of time but I'm guessing I'll have to learn it because - Like Vista - our machines are shipping with it. Vista is .... :-/ um Survivable. If the Eye Candy meant anything to me I might find it enjoyable I guess. I hear it works ok with video. fortunately most of my video is old home movies. I do have difficulties with some of the CDs I ripped to XP (where they play just fine) not wanting to play on the Vista machine using WMP. I'm having similar problems though with a Phillips MP3 player I got. Hopefully I'll find a solution. (Besides I-Tunes) I can't switch completely to Linux because nothing I have to use runs on it except our servers at the office. We have 2 on Gentoo, 4 on Fedora Core and 1 on Win 2003 server. Still trying to find a good way for the users who mostly want access to the Samba shares on the Linux machines to also have an AD sign-on without messing up their lives
quote:


Btw, Vista presented me with 200+ megs of Windows Upgrades the other day. Office 2007 SP1 came up included for download too. Vista SP1 is close...

Yep - I had a Vista machine come through for updates yesterday (Lunchtime) and it was still downloading when I left for the day

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 79
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 4:36:01 PM   
BlindOldUmp


Posts: 104
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: The North Coast of the USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jamesm
I see that Microsoft has release win XP service pack 3.

Not unless you want to be a Beta Tester which IMHO requires more than one machine

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Post #: 80
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 5:59:42 PM   
anvl

 

Posts: 259
Joined: 11/1/2005
Status: offline 		I found this about XP SP3...  

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Official-Test-Build-of-Windows-XP-SP3-Leaked-to-Torrent-Trackers-62231.shtml

shows to go ya,, If the good people won't deal with the illegal,,and the hackers are just waiting for the next challenge,,and ya cannot beat them,, then one shouldn't wast time and money on this,,and put your resources to better use.  The only ones who truly suffer from this is the honest people,,having to put up with security stuff that the hackers have already bypassed,,

I know,, I know this prolly isn't hacked,,but ya all know what i mean... games or OS,, makes no matter..

Lol,, if Linux was a pay type OS,, then all the myriad of flavors would be called "illegal hacks" instead of "flavors" 

anvil


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Post #: 81
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 7:30:41 PM   
Jeffrey H.


Posts: 3154
Joined: 4/13/2007
From: San Diego, Ca.
Status: offline 		It's just a contraction, like "it's".

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Post #: 82
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/13/2007 7:48:02 PM   
mikul82

 

Posts: 204
Joined: 3/2/2007
Status: offline 		One thing that does make me happy about Vista is how much money it's saving me currently...  Several times, I've almost splurged and bought a new computer, except ALL of them were loaded with Vista and didn't offer any way to "customize" them to WinXP instead.  Nice computers as well, low-priced and not requiring much tweaking of my own to become a pretty decent game rig.  After watching a friend of mine suffer with Vista and hearing the reviews of it online, it's managed to save me a good $900-1500 over the last 6 months

(in reply to Jeffrey H.)
Post #: 83
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/14/2007 12:06:17 AM   
pad152

 

Posts: 2871
Joined: 4/23/2000
Status: offline 		Vista should have put a nail in death of Macs now that they're just an intel box, but instead it increased Mac sales, only Microsoft is dumb enough to come up this marketing plan.

Some day when we have true 64-bit applications and after 3 or 4 service packs Vista maybe worth it, but not today.







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Post #: 84
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/14/2007 6:40:43 AM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		Wow interesting that I actually disagree about Office 2007. In that space Im purely and enduser and Ive never before found so much value in an upgrade. The old menus are awful to navigate in fact i hate menus which is why after research MS did away with them in favor of whats now called "ribbons". Thats really a build on the ole context sensitive menu thing accept as populated in the ribbon.

So when I click a table its editing options show up in the ribbon that werent there before. Live preview shows me my changes on the fly as I scroll through things instead of having to click each style/font etc and see if I like it or not.

The list goes on.. These are all much more useful and applicable things to the average user than simply adding more complicated excel formula possibilities and the 10th layer of mailmerge complexities.

I guess it all comes down to what you have to do with a product. But in this case I can see where their research has paid off though most of those useful features require a pretty good hardware setup.

I must confess though, that MS certainly does rename and move things between versions far far too much. Sometimes for what even if better would seem like a ridiculously minor improvement compared to the annoyance of it not being like it was before.

Its almost like they keep redesigining it for those who have never used any of it ever at all. Perhaps somehow marketing wize that still makes sense. The rest of us dont have much of a choice but to adapt and what really matters are the untapped demographics. Much the same reason I suppose the Nintendo WII is so freakingly ridiculously successful. Now if only someone would find a way to market wargames to woman.....

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Post #: 85
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/14/2007 8:11:23 AM   
SemperAugustus

 

Posts: 257
Joined: 1/9/2005
Status: offline 		I don't mind the UI in Office 2k7, the crashes and broken search function in outlook bother me though.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 86
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/14/2007 10:23:39 AM   
Adam Parker


Posts: 1848
Joined: 4/2/2002
From: Melbourne Australia
Status: offline 		I just caught an episode with Leo Laporte (too lazy to check the name of the show - the old Tech 2 guy) and he gives IE7 a big thumbs up with Vista, cliaming it gives what IE6 should have all along but only with the protection features endowed by Vista. Interesting. IOW XP users should stick with Mozilla.

(in reply to SemperAugustus)
Post #: 87
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/14/2007 3:41:31 PM   
BlindOldUmp


Posts: 104
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: The North Coast of the USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Adam Parker
I just caught an episode with Leo Laporte (too lazy to check the name of the show - the old Tech 2 guy) and he gives IE7 a big thumbs up with Vista, cliaming it gives what IE6 should have all along but only with the protection features endowed by Vista. Interesting. IOW XP users should stick with Mozilla.

I actually LIKE IE7 - I just have to get used to it. I still click on things expecting the new window to pop up in front of what I was doing. Some times I'll do the click 3 times and find that I have 3 copies of the new tab ..... Other times on sites that still do the new Window for the click I get what I expect so I suppose many of us have some larn'n to do!

(in reply to Adam Parker)
Post #: 88
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/14/2007 3:52:21 PM   
BlindOldUmp


Posts: 104
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: The North Coast of the USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Veldor
Wow interesting that I actually disagree about Office 2007. <SNIP>
I guess it all comes down to what you have to do with a product. But in this case I can see where their research has paid off though most of those useful features require a pretty good hardware setup.

I must confess though, that MS certainly does rename and move things between versions far far too much. Sometimes for what even if better would seem like a ridiculously minor improvement compared to the annoyance of it not being like it was before.

Its almost like they keep redesigining it for those who have never used any of it ever at all. Perhaps somehow marketing wize that still makes sense. The rest of us dont have much of a choice but to adapt and what really matters are the untapped demographics. Much the same reason I suppose the Nintendo WII is so freakingly ridiculously successful. Now if only someone would find a way to market wargames to woman.....

That's OK Veldor - I'm here to be disagreed with. You should see what happens on Religious threads :-) You are right however about what M$ appears to be doing. it will take me a while to get used to M$O 2k7 just like it did M$O 2k3 but I will get there. I still have a machine with Office 97 on it as well as WP 5 - I used to love them - especially WP5 but life moves on. I still save all my documents in RTF however for compatibility sake because I do know some people who still use WP5 ???? Although I also know a larger number of people that use Open Office which also likes RTF & does not yet like .DXML or whatever M$O 2k7 puts out. I can deal with the UI changes much easier that the Document incompatibility between versions. i used to have a program that did conversions between documents but 2 & 3 grand just got too much and the company I now work for doesn't see the need when I can just feed a document into Program A and spit out a more or less compatible version.

(in reply to Veldor)
Post #: 89
RE: WinXP widens lead over Vista - 12/14/2007 7:18:00 PM   
Veldor


Posts: 1531
Joined: 12/29/2002
From: King's Landing
Status: offline 		The new format for the office files is far far more efficient than the old ones. They take up about half the space, if even. That is especially useful to corporate customers or anyone who works on a lot of files.

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Post #: 90
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