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RE: TD Bn - 9/14/2014 6:58:51 AM   
JeffroK


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Ive found a US Army intel doco which shows the Div (-) coming to the Hanoi area from Shantung - Kiangsu but the date is missing.
The portion of the Division, 62 Rgt (+) as coming from The Phillipines to Hanoi "early in 1943"

Same document shows 21 Div being in "Northern China" as at 1/1/42

Maybe complicating the waters is that 21 IMB is also based at Hanoi at 7/12/41

Not relevant but!
https://server16040.contentdm.oclc.org/cdm4/document.php?CISOROOT=/p4013coll8&CISOPTR=2107&REC=2

< Message edited by JeffK -- 9/14/2014 8:54:35 AM >


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Post #: 2161
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/12/2015 7:52:42 PM   
m10bob


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Hello.......Am re-reading Eric Bergerud's fine book "Touched With Fire", (about the land war in the Pacific..)
In the introduction, he mentions the fact the U.S. for 2 years prior to Pearl harbor had already developed forward Naval bases at New Caledonia and Espirito Santos. I would assume the former to be at Noumea, but in game, neither are represented with an American presence whatsoever..
Being a "webcrawler"...I will try to get some details but suspect the forces will be somewhat similar to those initially found at Midway or Wake ??

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Post #: 2162
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/13/2015 7:07:11 AM   
JeffroK


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I doubt that the French or Brits would have allowed this, time for a search.

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Post #: 2163
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/13/2015 7:14:05 AM   
JeffroK


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From http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Building_Bases/bases-24.html

A Main South Pacific Base at Noumea. -- In the meanwhile, the other half of the 3rd Battalion had also been given South Pacific assignments. Company A was sent to Borabora to reinforce the 1st Construction Detachment, the BOBCATs. Company B was given the task of building another tank farm at Noumea, at the southern end of New Caledonia.

New Caledonia was a French colony. It had committed its loyalties to the Free French organization in September 1940, shortly after France had fallen to the German forces, and for some time prior to the entry of the United States into the war, an Australian garrison had been stationed there. The colony marked the end of the island-protected portion of the Australian shipping lane; from New Caledonia westward to Australia there was but the open Coral Sea.

The harbor at Noumea was extensive and well protected, but during the early months of the war it had been considered a bit too far forward for major naval-base development. Until the early summer of 1942, Auckland had been preferred as the site of the principal base facilities for our naval forces in the South Pacific, and a considerable amount of construction had been undertaken there in cooperation with the New Zealand government. The first two CUBs to be sent to the Pacific left the States with Auckland as their destination, but favorable developments in the war situation led to the decision while the shipments were enroute that the advance-base equipment they included should be erected farther north. Accordingly, the CUBs were diverted from their earlier destination; part of CUB 1, including the construction company from the 3rd Battalion, arrived at Noumea on June 26. It had been the Company's mission to erect a tank farm, but shortly after their arrival the project was cancelled.

During the months that followed, emphasis shifted from Auckland to Noumea as the location of Navy's principal fleet base in the South Pacific. On November 8, 1942, South Pacific headquarters was established there. Additional construction battalions were assigned to the area during the latter months of the year, and development proceeded rapidly until Noumea became the most important of the South Pacific installations.

Development of Espiritu Santo. -- While the detachment of the 1st Battalion was building the air strip on Efate the Japs were engaged in constructing a field of their own on Guadalcanal. It was a construction race, and the Seabees won. Bombers took off from Efate within a month of the start of construction to harass the Japanese builders. But it was clear that the possession of Guadalcanal would have to be disputed with the enemy and Efate was not quite close enough to provide effective fighter support for our assault forces in the impending action. Another field, farther north, would have to be established.

After a reconnaissance had been made of the islands lying to the north of Efate, extending as far as the Santa Cruz islands, choice for the new airfield site fell upon Espiritu Santo, the northernmost island of the New Hebrides, 400 miles closer to the enemy's position. On July 8 a small group of Seabees from the 1st Battalion detachment on Efate landed on Espiritu Santo and began work on the new field. They were accompanied by an infantry company of the U.S. Army who performed the unskilled work involved in the construction operations. Within twenty days the new field was in operation and offensive action against the japs in the Solomons was stepped up in intensity. On August 7, the Marines made their landings on Guadalcanal and Tulagi.

The subsequent development of Espiritu Santo as an air base was rapid and extensive. A few days after the Guadalcanal landings, the 7th Battalion arrived on Santo and began building more extensive air facilities. Army Air Forces and Marine Corps personnel on the island increased rapidly until Santo became a major South Pacific base for the support of air activities throughout the year-long campaign for possession of the Solomons.


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Post #: 2164
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/13/2015 7:21:57 AM   
JeffroK


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Same location


Espiritu Santo
When the Japanese moved into the Solomons and began construction of airfields on Guadalcanal, an Allied air base in an advance area became vital. The choice of Espiritu Santo, 630 miles southeast of Guadalcanal, in the New Hebrides, as a site for a major Army and Navy operating base, brought the U.S. bombers 400 miles closer to the Japanese positions and provided a staging area for the forthcoming Allied invasion of the Solomons. The base provided aircraft facilities capable of supporting heavy bombers, fighters, and two carrier groups; an accumulation of ammunition, provisions, stores, and equipment for offensive operations; repair and salvage facilities for all types of vessels. It became a vital link between Henderson Field on Guadalcanal and the airfields at Noumea and Efate.

Espiritu Santo is the northernmost and largest of the New Hebrides islands. It has an irregular outline, with numerous small islands near its shores. Heavily wooded and mountainous, particularly in the south and west where the highest peak rises to more than 6000 feet, Santo, as it is locally known, is about 75 miles long and 45 miles wide. Like that of Efate, the government is under joint British and French control.

A small reconnaissance party of three men left Efate on June 28, 1942, to find an airfield site closer than Efate to Henderson Field. Espiritu Santo was chosen, and on July 8, a small group of Seabees of the Efate detachment arrived at Santo with a Marine anti-aircraft battery and a company of colored infantrymen to begin work on Turtle Bay airfield.

The Santo pioneers were given twenty days in which to construct the field. They worked day and night, in the race against time. Equipment for heavy grading was not available and they had to make out with six tractors, two scrapers, one grease truck, one gas wagon, three weapon carriers, and one 50-kw generator. Assisting them were 295 infantrymen, 90 Marines, and 50 natives.

A 6000-foot runway was cleared and surfaced with coral in time to met the deadline. On July 28, the first fighter squadron came in and was followed the next day by a squadron of B-17's. The planes were fueled from drums and gave the Japs in Guadalcanal their first big bombing on July 30.



Noumea
Noumea, at the southern end of the island of New Caledonia, was developed as the main fleet base in the South Pacific, assuming the extensive functions planned originally for Auckland, New Zealand. It served as a staging area for the development of other advance bases, such as Guadalcanal; and on November 8, 1942, became headquarters for the Allied Commander of the South Pacific.

The island of New Caledonia is one of the largest of the Pacific islands. About 250 miles long and 31 miles wide, it has two high parallel ranges of mountains, separated by a central valley, extending through the center of the island. There are numerous rivers, and fresh water is plentiful. The island is almost entirely surrounded by a barrier reef, with a spacious channel, varying in depth from 20 to 50 fathoms, between the shore and the reef.

New Caledonia is a French colony, which has also under its administration several outlying islands -- Isle of Pines, the Loyalty Islands, the Wallis archipelago, Futuna and Alofi, and the Huon Islands. The total population numbers about 55,000. Minerals are plentiful, nickel being of special value.

Noumea, with a population of about 11,000, is the chief French city in the Pacific and the seat of government for New Caledonia. It is the only port on the island, its harbor affording shelter to vessels of any size. Between Noumea and Ile Nou, and island in the harbor, there is a channel three miles long and about one mile wide, providing anchorage in any part, with the advantage of complete security and facility of defense.

New Caledonia joined the Free French organization in September 1940. Prior to the entry of the United States into the war, an Australian garrison was stationed on the island. In March 1942, by agreement with the French, U.S. Army forces under General Patch occupied the island, and most of the Australian garrison was withdrawn. On June 10, 1942, a naval officer took over duties as Captain of the Port. With him were 8 other officers and 143 men whose purpose, in addition to forming an administrative unit, was the installation of underwater defenses.

The development of Noumea proceeded slowly at first, for effort was being concentrated on the construction of facilities at Auckland, 1,000 miles south. However, in July and August 1942, two CUBs, originally intended for Auckland, were diverted en route, one to Espiritu Santo and the other to Noumea. The CUB unloaded at Noumea formed the nucleus of the subsequent base development. At that time, the only project scheduled for Noumea was a tank farm, providing 30,000 barrels of fuel oil and 20,000 barrels of diesel oil. Company B and one-fourth of the headquarters company of the 3rd Construction Battalion arrived at Noumea on June 26, 1942,


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Post #: 2165
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/13/2015 11:01:26 AM   
m10bob


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In spite of Bergerud's claim, I cannot find earlier activity by the U.S. either..Jeff...you are on it!!..

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Post #: 2166
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/13/2015 2:20:19 PM   
m10bob


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This site indicates it was the Australians who had a presence in Moumea as early as 1940 when France was defeated by Germany.
It also indicates the Free French "leased" bases there and Efete for approx $1k annually, along with other French locations.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Building_Bases/bases-24.html

This is the same site you used..
The USN had a "refueling depot" at Bora Bora by January 1942,fuel tanks apparently finally reaching up to 200,000 gallons..

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Post #: 2167
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/13/2015 4:50:21 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


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The only prewar US presence at Noumea I have ever come across was the Panam seaplane base for the SF - Auckland Clipper service.
My books are boxed for moving - could you please quote the passage from Touched with Fire?

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Post #: 2168
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/14/2015 7:06:49 AM   
JeffroK


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob

This site indicates it was the Australians who had a presence in Noumea as early as 1940 when France was defeated by Germany.
It also indicates the Free French "leased" bases there and Efete for approx $1k annually, along with other French locations.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Building_Bases/bases-24.html

This is the same site you used..
The USN had a "refueling depot" at Bora Bora by January 1942,fuel tanks apparently finally reaching up to 200,000 gallons..

HMAS Adelaide was on location when the pro de-Gaullists kicked out the Vichyites from Noumea, roughly Aug-Sept 1940

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Post #: 2169
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/14/2015 3:44:08 PM   
Symon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob
This site indicates it was the Australians who had a presence in Noumea as early as 1940 when France was defeated by Germany.
It also indicates the Free French "leased" bases there and Efete for approx $1k annually, along with other French locations.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Building_Bases/bases-24.html

This is the same site you used..
The USN had a "refueling depot" at Bora Bora by January 1942,fuel tanks apparently finally reaching up to 200,000 gallons..

HMAS Adelaide was on location when the pro de-Gaullists kicked out the Vichyites from Noumea, roughly Aug-Sept 1940

There was a Australian presence, called “Robin Force” sent to assist the French in establishing Noumea’s defenses. It comprised mainly the 3rd Independent Company, but also included an artillery component commanded by Captain Charles Harris Arnell Carty-Salmon, RAA. The infantry was to train the militia, the artillery section was to emplace two 6” coast defense guns (supplied by New Zealand) on Ouen Toro hill on the south side of Noumea harbor and train the militia how to operate them.

Uncertain exactly when they arrived, but a May 1941 photo shows at least one gun installed and ready to boogie. The infantry component may have arrived as early as July 1940, but they were certainly there in mid September, when the Australian Navy escorted Henri Sautot to Noumea to take control in the name of Free France. They communicated their position and dispositions to the RAN vessels by Aldis lamp, in case things got a little sticky.

I believe the first US presence was from elements of TF 6814, 12 March ’42, as noted by JeffK.


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Post #: 2170
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/15/2015 2:30:44 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon


quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK
quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob
This site indicates it was the Australians who had a presence in Noumea as early as 1940 when France was defeated by Germany.
It also indicates the Free French "leased" bases there and Efete for approx $1k annually, along with other French locations.

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USN/Building_Bases/bases-24.html

This is the same site you used..
The USN had a "refueling depot" at Bora Bora by January 1942,fuel tanks apparently finally reaching up to 200,000 gallons..

HMAS Adelaide was on location when the pro de-Gaullists kicked out the Vichyites from Noumea, roughly Aug-Sept 1940

There was a Australian presence, called “Robin Force” sent to assist the French in establishing Noumea’s defenses. It comprised mainly the 3rd Independent Company, but also included an artillery component commanded by Captain Charles Harris Arnell Carty-Salmon, RAA. The infantry was to train the militia, the artillery section was to emplace two 6” coast defense guns (supplied by New Zealand) on Ouen Toro hill on the south side of Noumea harbor and train the militia how to operate them.

Uncertain exactly when they arrived, but a May 1941 photo shows at least one gun installed and ready to boogie. The infantry component may have arrived as early as July 1940, but they were certainly there in mid September, when the Australian Navy escorted Henri Sautot to Noumea to take control in the name of Free France. They communicated their position and dispositions to the RAN vessels by Aldis lamp, in case things got a little sticky.

I believe the first US presence was from elements of TF 6814, 12 March ’42, as noted by JeffK.


I concur..this same info is explained in detail on the given site, and then some.
The site itself also gives link to a New Zealand site which details the NZ contingency at Fiji,Suva, etc.)..

As for my Bergerud comments...I have re-read the first 25 pages and so help me, NOW I cannot find it, yet I know what I read as I found it so remarkable I meant to highlight it..I am stymied..I remember it was on a "left page", near the top..Part of the sentence said "at least two years prior to Pearl Harbor"...
Neither the site Symon and I have been perusing, nor any other site I have checked can verify this....Am I....in the Twilght Zone??

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RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/15/2015 4:20:10 PM   
Symon


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quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob
As for my Bergerud comments...I have re-read the first 25 pages and so help me, NOW I cannot find it, yet I know what I read as I found it so remarkable I meant to highlight it..I am stymied..I remember it was on a "left page", near the top..Part of the sentence said "at least two years prior to Pearl Harbor"...
Neither the site Symon and I have been perusing, nor any other site I have checked can verify this....Am I....in the Twilght Zone??

No you are not. But even the best of historical authors have blivets and make mistakes. This was not part of Bergeron's book premise, so he can be forgiven for relying on such 'received wisdom' as was out there. Because this was an irrelevant sidebar statement concerning background, his editors can also be forgiven for not vetting it. He might have said something slightly different if he had talked to JeffK. But then, that's what we are here for, yeah?

Ciao JWE

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Post #: 2172
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 4/15/2015 6:11:08 PM   
m10bob


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Symon


quote:

ORIGINAL: m10bob
As for my Bergerud comments...I have re-read the first 25 pages and so help me, NOW I cannot find it, yet I know what I read as I found it so remarkable I meant to highlight it..I am stymied..I remember it was on a "left page", near the top..Part of the sentence said "at least two years prior to Pearl Harbor"...
Neither the site Symon and I have been perusing, nor any other site I have checked can verify this....Am I....in the Twilght Zone??

No you are not. But even the best of historical authors have blivets and make mistakes. This was not part of Bergeron's book premise, so he can be forgiven for relying on such 'received wisdom' as was out there. Because this was an irrelevant sidebar statement concerning background, his editors can also be forgiven for not vetting it. He might have said something slightly different if he had talked to JeffK. But then, that's what we are here for, yeah?

Ciao JWE

Many times....I have been labelled a "cheerleader"........I am all about historical correctness...(and yeah, we all know that goes out the window on your very first move.)

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Post #: 2173
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 7/22/2015 12:36:40 AM   
BlackhorseToo

 

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quote:

Company A was sent to Borabora to reinforce the 1st Construction Detachment, the BOBCATs.


The BOBCATs were the first of what became the Naval Construction Battalions, CBs, or "Seabees". They arrived in late spring, 1942.

I researched the US Land OOB for WitP-AE (When I was "Blackhorse"). To my knowledge, there was no US military presence on Noumea or Espiritu Santo prior to the war. The US did have teams of hired civilian contractors (Contractor Pacific Naval Aviation Bases -- CPNAB in game) building a series of air bases across the South Pacific. There *may* have been a CPNAB construction team, or an Australian equivalent, at work on Espiritu Santo before December 7th, but I couldn't find any definitive evidence.


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Post #: 2174
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 3/27/2016 8:08:13 AM   
miv792

 

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How to determine the accuracy of guns and tanks editor ?

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Post #: 2175
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 3/27/2016 8:23:26 AM   
Alfred

 

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Accuracy is not accuracy.

Alfred

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Post #: 2176
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 3/27/2016 8:48:18 AM   
miv792

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Accuracy is not accuracy.

Alfred

quote:

Accuracy is not accuracy.


I understand it, just do not understand how this parameter is calculated, if the ship is still clear, then when you try to calculate it from artillery and tanks out other numeral :)

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Post #: 2177
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 3/28/2016 10:27:44 AM   
Alfred

 

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Then I don't know what it is you are asking for.  Please detail exactly what you are referring to, what it is you want to achieve, for what purpose.

If all this is about the algorithms, you have been here long enough to know algorithms are not disclosed.  If about game gun stats look up any of the threads where I have linked to JWE/Symon's ballistic explanations.  If trying to mod your own guns, the correct approach has always been to just use the stats of a similar gun in the database.

Alfred

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Post #: 2178
RE: AE Land and AI Issues - 6/8/2016 2:50:38 PM   
Andy Mac

 

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Any fredback from people trying the new AI more than welcome

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Post #: 2179
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