Matrix Games Forums

 Forums  Register  Login  Photo Gallery  Member List  Search  Calendars  FAQ 

My Profile  Inbox  Address Book  My Subscription  My Forums  Log Out

RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread

 
View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest
Users viewing this topic: none
  Printable Version
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread Page: <<   < prev  37 38 [39] 40 41   next >   >>
Login
Message << Older Topic   Newer Topic >>
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 2:50:17 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
or maybe "Shipname II" plus the ability to rename ships while in the reinforcement queue....

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 1141
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 3:40:44 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Instead of messing with more code to be able to name ships ourselves in the reinforcement queue (as great as that sounds), maybe the simplest approach (time and resource wise) would be to name all the Essex carriers their original names before being renamed after sunk carriers and then in place of CVL Cabot, rename the CVL to a fictional name. One fictional name wouldn't hurt too much I wouldn't think. I think in my no-respawn mod for WITP I named Cabot something like San Juan Hill to keep close with naval naming tradition.

Just a thought.

_____________________________


(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 1142
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 4:08:49 AM   
bradfordkay

 

Posts: 8683
Joined: 3/24/2002
From: Olympia, WA
Status: offline 		I forgot about the CVL Cabot (strangely the name seemed to resonate in my mind, but I was thinking that it was one of the later Essex's). I believe that Akula's idea would be best, use one of the names from a CV that was not completed during the war. However, since this has already been incorporated into the game, I guess that HFP has already worked out their own answer...

_____________________________

fair winds,
Brad

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 1143
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 4:47:23 AM   
Don Bowen


Posts: 8183
Joined: 7/13/2000
From: Georgetown, Texas, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

One fictional name wouldn't hurt too much I wouldn't think.



heresy!




(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 1144
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 9:18:47 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		I'll break out the pitchforks and flaming torches...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 1145
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 11:00:36 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Well on that note I guess you could use the names of the planned but never completed ones in the case of Bon Homme Richard etc so as to not repeat names. Originally Cabot was an Essex, then when it was renamed a CVL became Cabot. So the CVL that became Cabot would also need a different name.

One problem leads right into another...


Use the original names and allow players to edit the text field. I suspect some players might use the capability to play with the minds of their opponents!

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 1146
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 2:21:17 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline 		What is wrong with giving them their historical name preceded by Number:CV18 Wasp ?

_____________________________




(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 1147
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 2:38:47 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		That's a good idea. It also helps to coordinate with their air groups if the planes happen to go ashore for any reason.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 1148
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 4:38:12 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		The problem with that is where do you stop? It would look stupid to just have CV's numbered and named and all other classes not.



_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1149
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 6:35:31 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Slave to fashion?

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 1150
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 7:24:15 PM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

I'll break out the pitchforks and flaming torches...


I'll break out the marshmellows!

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 3/3/2008 7:26:01 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 1151
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 8:55:28 PM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The problem with that is where do you stop? It would look stupid to just have CV's numbered and named and all other classes not.




Who sez it would look stupid ?

It is functional.
It is simple.
It is historical,(for the CV's anyway.)


_____________________________




(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 1152
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/3/2008 9:09:11 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Well, the majority of the people on the naval team sez it would. Or sed, anyway...

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 1153
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/4/2008 1:07:38 AM   
m10bob


Posts: 8622
Joined: 11/3/2002
From: Dismal Seepage Indiana
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, the majority of the people on the naval team sez it would. Or sed, anyway...



Well I guess that means it is carved in stone and needs no further input.


_____________________________




(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 1154
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/4/2008 2:04:04 AM   
jcjordan

 

Posts: 1900
Joined: 6/27/2001
Status: offline 		Not sure if it's been asked but on VP value of ships will ships like the big passenger liners be more than a normal AP type ship? Can there be some way added in the db settings if not? It seems strange in WITP that a ship like the Aquitania (in CHS) or Queen Mary have such a low VP value whereas they should have something akin to a CV or BB if sunk because of the way ship VP are figured.

(in reply to m10bob)
Post #: 1155
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/4/2008 5:01:48 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		Well there were no cancelled CVLs, so it would either have to be fictional, or just for that one ship just give the Penant number, CVL-28.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to jcjordan)
Post #: 1156
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/4/2008 11:34:19 AM   
Monter_Trismegistos

 

Posts: 1359
Joined: 2/1/2005
From: Gdansk
Status: offline 		Well, since name Cabot WAS used as a CVL name - it's name become historical and is tied to Pacific battles. I would suggest to find a new name for one of the Essex (name ex Cabot)..

_____________________________

Nec Temere Nec Timide
Bez strachu ale z rozwagą

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 1157
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/6/2008 10:24:48 PM   
sven6345789

 

Posts: 1050
Joined: 3/8/2004
From: Sandviken, Sweden
Status: offline 		several possibilities
a) the game differs CV from CVL, so i could live with two ships named cabot
b) Cabot was originally planned as the CL Wilmington, why not just leave that name.

another question. If the game lasts until March 1946, what about the Essex Class Carriers which historically only got commissioned after the japanese surrender. Are they in? (This also includes the Midway class btw)

_____________________________

Bougainville, November 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9. It rained today.

Letter from a U.S. Marine,November 1943

(in reply to Monter_Trismegistos)
Post #: 1158
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/8/2008 3:30:25 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		If we're looking at the war extending to 46, don't forget to adjust the date of commisioning for the ships that were slowed or cancelled as the war came near the end.  Do you think the Oriskinay would have waited until 1950 if the war would have continued or they carrier losses would have been heavier?

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 1159
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/8/2008 9:34:12 AM   
olorin42

 

Posts: 74
Joined: 12/24/2007
From: Charlotte NC
Status: offline 		I asked this a while back and never got an answer ...

One question on logistics in the Pacific. Since the intent with AE seems to try to represent every ship (bravo!), would not the Allies have to ship a potload of supplies to Hawaii to feed the civilians??? India has sifficient internal production to feed the population. Same for Australia and NZ. Most other Pacific islands had small enough populations that there was probably not a great need for importing food. Hawaii on the other hand does not have much in the way of domestic food production (excepting sugar and pineapples). Most food and domestic products (simple stuff like soap and toilet paper) had to come from CONUS.

Where SF has a supply income each turn, maybe Pearl Harbor should have a negative daily supply income????

Someone commented that agreed that Hawaii did need a lot of imports and discussed SPAM at some length ... how will this be modeled in AE? (if at all)

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 1160
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/8/2008 1:45:48 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Will Free French Navy elements be included in AE ?

3 units were on theater from Dec'41/Jan'42 (Noumea area) until 1945 :
Auxiliary Cruiser Cap des Palmes (later refitted in SF in Jan '43)
Destroyer Le Triomphant (Le Fantasque class)
Aviso Chevreuil (Chamois class)

They were actively used as escort ships in the Australia-New Caledonia-Guadalcanal triangle under US command.




< Message edited by Skyland -- 3/8/2008 2:16:55 PM >

(in reply to olorin42)
Post #: 1161
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/8/2008 2:20:48 PM   
Andrew Brown


Posts: 5007
Joined: 9/5/2000
From: Hex 82,170
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: olorin42

I asked this a while back and never got an answer ...

One question on logistics in the Pacific. Since the intent with AE seems to try to represent every ship (bravo!), would not the Allies have to ship a potload of supplies to Hawaii to feed the civilians??? India has sifficient internal production to feed the population. Same for Australia and NZ. Most other Pacific islands had small enough populations that there was probably not a great need for importing food. Hawaii on the other hand does not have much in the way of domestic food production (excepting sugar and pineapples). Most food and domestic products (simple stuff like soap and toilet paper) had to come from CONUS.

Where SF has a supply income each turn, maybe Pearl Harbor should have a negative daily supply income????

Someone commented that agreed that Hawaii did need a lot of imports and discussed SPAM at some length ... how will this be modeled in AE? (if at all)


Hawaii does have a requirement for some resources to be shipped to it, to generate its maximum level of supply points (which is not large in any case).

Andrew

(in reply to olorin42)
Post #: 1162
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/8/2008 2:53:52 PM   
Akos Gergely

 

Posts: 733
Joined: 4/8/2004
From: Hungary, Bp.
Status: offline 		I think regarding the naming question it would be nice to use all the original names as it was closest to historical. In the case of cruisers it is relatively simple.

In the carriers' case the only big difficulty will be the Cabot, which can be substituted for as USS Crown Point that would have been the original name for the CVL Langley.

Also the later, cancelled Essex class names could be used as well since they were in the loop anyway.

A good source for original names:

CVs

CVLs

CAs and CLs

I've heard that in case of USS Lexington CV-16 (ex-Cabot) many parts of the ship can still be seen with original Cabot markings (with indents and other original manufacturer's markings that it was intended for CV-16 Cabot)

_____________________________



My blog: https://warshipprojects.com/

(in reply to sven6345789)
Post #: 1163
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/9/2008 12:38:37 AM   
msieving1


Posts: 526
Joined: 3/23/2007
From: Missouri
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: olorin42

I asked this a while back and never got an answer ...

One question on logistics in the Pacific. Since the intent with AE seems to try to represent every ship (bravo!), would not the Allies have to ship a potload of supplies to Hawaii to feed the civilians??? India has sifficient internal production to feed the population. Same for Australia and NZ. Most other Pacific islands had small enough populations that there was probably not a great need for importing food. Hawaii on the other hand does not have much in the way of domestic food production (excepting sugar and pineapples). Most food and domestic products (simple stuff like soap and toilet paper) had to come from CONUS.


I was just reading in Shattered Sword that the Japanese estimated it would require at least 60 transport loads per month to feed the civilian population of Hawaii if Japan could capture the islands. I would assume that the US would require at least as much shipping to supply Hawaii. While other Pacific islands may not have had as large a requirement as Hawaii, none of them were completely self-sufficient.

If all shipping is to be included in the game (a worthy goal I'm sure), then civilian needs for shipping have to be included as well as military requirements. Otherwise, players will have far more shipping available for operations than they should. Japan figured that about half the merchant fleet available at the start of the war would be needed for civilian requirements. I don't know what Allied requirements would be, but I'd guess at least a couple million tons of shipping would be needed for civilian use.


(in reply to olorin42)
Post #: 1164
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/9/2008 1:13:51 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		All shipping won't be included... That's an impossibility.

_____________________________

We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.

(in reply to msieving1)
Post #: 1165
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/9/2008 4:07:27 AM   
acepedro45

 

Posts: 8
Joined: 11/7/2005
Status: offline 		I've only made it about halfway through this thread from the beginning, so let me apologize in advance if this question has already been asked.

One aspect of WITP that always bothered me was the perfect identification in the AARs about enemy ships after a battle. IIRC months after Midway the Japanese believed they had sunk or badly damaged two "Enterprise Class" carriers. I remember the notation "Enemy CA blows up and sinks" from the battle of Samar...when the ship in question was still afloat and it was merely a destroyer.

That is a big contrast to the game...here's an example from a night battle. In RL the Japanese commander would only know he engaged an allied surface group and came off pretty well. In the game, we know the exact classes and even the names of the ships engaged, that the battle netted an obsolete CL and probably four stackers Maury and Aylwin as well. Is that a fair approximation of the chaos of night combat? A lot of effort has gone into the FOW when tracking an enemy group by air...as many players chasing CA CA CA CA CA learn when they sink a bunch of destroyers in their place.


Japanese Ships
BB Mutsu, Shell hits 10
CL Kiso, Shell hits 2
CL Tenryu
DD Kamikaze, Shell hits 1, and is sunk
DD Okikaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Nokaze, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Numakaze, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Sagi

Allied Ships
CL Phoenix, Shell hits 12, and is sunk
DD Gridley, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Maury, Shell hits 21, on fire, heavy damage
DD Dunlap, Shell hits 9, on fire, heavy damage
DD Lamson, Shell hits 3
DD Case, Shell hits 5, on fire
DD Conyngham, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Aylwin, Shell hits 13, on fire, heavy damage
DD Kennison



I would think that a game that aspires to track every man, aircraft and bullet in the theater could eliminate a huge hole in the fog of war with some changes to this area....are there plans to curtail the valuable intel a player gains from the aar?

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 1166
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/9/2008 7:00:13 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: msieving1


quote:

ORIGINAL: olorin42

I asked this a while back and never got an answer ...

One question on logistics in the Pacific. Since the intent with AE seems to try to represent every ship (bravo!), would not the Allies have to ship a potload of supplies to Hawaii to feed the civilians??? India has sifficient internal production to feed the population. Same for Australia and NZ. Most other Pacific islands had small enough populations that there was probably not a great need for importing food. Hawaii on the other hand does not have much in the way of domestic food production (excepting sugar and pineapples). Most food and domestic products (simple stuff like soap and toilet paper) had to come from CONUS.


I was just reading in Shattered Sword that the Japanese estimated it would require at least 60 transport loads per month to feed the civilian population of Hawaii if Japan could capture the islands. I would assume that the US would require at least as much shipping to supply Hawaii. While other Pacific islands may not have had as large a requirement as Hawaii, none of them were completely self-sufficient.

If all shipping is to be included in the game (a worthy goal I'm sure), then civilian needs for shipping have to be included as well as military requirements. Otherwise, players will have far more shipping available for operations than they should. Japan figured that about half the merchant fleet available at the start of the war would be needed for civilian requirements. I don't know what Allied requirements would be, but I'd guess at least a couple million tons of shipping would be needed for civilian use.




I sincerely believe that the japanese would not have wasted 1 ship to feed to civilians of Hawaii. They probably used far of their fleet for military purposes than the Allies did.

The problem in the game is if the ships are available, they will be used ahistorically, I'd rather have the ships "hidden" rather than be available for "other uses"

_____________________________

Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to msieving1)
Post #: 1167
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/9/2008 11:12:19 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline 		Most Hawaiian civilians were Japanese nationals.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 1168
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/9/2008 11:16:18 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

Most Hawaiian civilians were Japanese nationals.


And most of them weren't there long after the war started either.


_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to herwin)
Post #: 1169
RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread - 3/9/2008 11:38:03 AM   
herwin

 

Posts: 6059
Joined: 5/28/2004
From: Sunderland, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7


quote:

ORIGINAL: herwin

Most Hawaiian civilians were Japanese nationals.


And most of them weren't there long after the war started either.



Wrong. Japanese nationals were not evacuated from Hawaii.

_____________________________

Harry Erwin
"For a number to make sense in the game, someone has to calibrate it and program code. There are too many significant numbers that behave non-linearly to expect that. It's just a game. Enjoy it." herwin@btinternet.com

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 1170
Page:   <<   < prev  37 38 [39] 40 41   next >   >>
All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: Admirals Edition Naval Thread Page: <<   < prev  37 38 [39] 40 41   next >   >>
Jump to:





New Messages No New Messages
Hot Topic w/ New Messages Hot Topic w/o New Messages
Locked w/ New Messages Locked w/o New Messages
 Post New Thread
 Reply to Message
 Post New Poll
 Submit Vote
 Delete My Own Post
 Delete My Own Thread
 Rate Posts


Forum Software © ASPPlayground.NET Advanced Edition 2.4.5 ANSI

0.953