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Le Voyage Dans la Mere... - 2/24/2009 4:19:25 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Trying to get back to the war...






The bottom box should read "add it to the army..." I hate typos!


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< Message edited by John 3rd -- 2/24/2009 4:20:56 AM >

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Post #: 1771
Le Voyage Dans la Mere... - 2/24/2009 4:34:01 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		A far more frightening screenshot...






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Post #: 1772
RE: Le Voyage Dans la Mere... - 2/24/2009 4:46:59 AM   
n01487477


Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
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Banzai !  See you can get Div at full strength IF the points are there ... (caveat - as long as the scenario designer hasn't nobbled it). I know economics bore ppl - but this is a game as much about logistics as strategy.  The Indust-Military Machine pumping war materials to an audacious commander & a carefully orchistrated plan set in motion is hard to hold back. I'm not saying this will succeed but my heart is with the attempt.

Banzai !






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Post #: 1773
RE: Le Voyage Dans la Mere... - 2/24/2009 5:04:21 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I just want to be able to land and GRAB some serious real estate and scare the tar out of Dan!

Damian--You and Michael have taught me so much about running the economy.  Totally correct regarding units coming in at full strength IF the armaments and vehicles are available.  I am a decent military strategist but an economic neophyte.  Brad is running our economy in the First Team AAR and I am enjoyably watching what he is doing from the perspective of one who has SCREWED up this campaign.

Any of you who look to or are playing Japan, try to learn as much as you can from my mistakes and other people's advice and suggestions.  To be a Japanese player you need to LEARN Tracker.  If I had had Tracker a year ago things might have gone differently.  Putting the troops, planes, and ships where they need to be is one thing but what is the point if they have no bullets or fuel??!!  This is the whole problem with this campaign right now. 

Ask Michael.  He can tell you about the horrific state of things in that arena!





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Post #: 1774
RE: Rude - 2/24/2009 8:02:34 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

I was so steamed I had to walk away for a bit and then come back to find all this.  Thank you all VERY much. 

Mr. Wilkerson (this will sound corny) I am honored that you would contribute your thoughts in a such a strong manner.  I do appreciate it VERY much.

For the rest of you nuts---THANKS---for providing a bit of a confidence boost.

SierraJuliet---I had not thought of the striking comparison of Bulge versus this plan until you laid it out like that.  well done!

Vettim--I think you are dead on with your evaluation of Dan.  He will have a heart attack, smile, and then--hopefully-over-react!

Miller and QBall--you guys have been great contributors from the beginning of this AAR.  Now one of you is an allie in another piece of insanity!

Redd--Harry--B--Mad appreciate the support.  PLEASE jump in anytime.






John,

I don´t think Jeff wanted to offend you deliberately. I have my doubts about this operation too and have posted it clearly, but never with any intention to offend you. Perhaps the word "farce" is too strong here, on the other side you could see the Ardennes offensive in real life as a farce also and like I´ve posted, I see the Ardennes offensives as a "better operation" than your attack on India.

Please don´t take this as offending!

In the end, the Ardennes offensive ended the war for the German faster than if they hadn´t done it. IMO the same will happen in your game but it´s YOUR decision and everyone here respects that decision, thus also trying to contribute with tips. It´s just like real life, Hitler came up with an insane plan and his generals tried their best to execute this "insane" plan. Same for me, you say you want to land in India, I thought of using the fast transport TF.

There´s a slight chance that this operation will prolonge your fight (just like the Ardennes offensive was), if Dan is reacting wrong or does make some serious faults but (and that´s just my oppinion) if he plays it out smart then it will end the war earlier.

But it´s a game and there are two AARs. And for the two AARs this is the best that can happen!


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Post #: 1775
RE: Rude - 2/24/2009 3:52:13 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Just because something is a piece of insanity doesn't mean we should applaud it. I think that this offensive is not as finely judged as it should be and am less in favour of it than others because I think it is going to be less firework and more damp squib than many think.

With that said so long as something CAN be done within the limits of in-game logistics then it is fair game. To disparage John like JeffK did is, IMO, quite unfair.


But I don't applaud the plan and think it is not sufficiently supported at the present time. My problem is with its chance of success, not with its nature.

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Post #: 1776
RE: Rude - 2/24/2009 5:21:21 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Nemo do not be concerned about your comments.  I know where they come from and what you mean.  You are dead- right that this will probably hasten the end and could easily end up with 150,000 desperately needed soldiers drowning at sea.  Understand this and am willing to take the risk...

Just like someone else said earlier, I am not content to watch the Empire waste away under the pounding of 1,000s of aircraft and a massed army that I have no chance of beating.  This is a chance to end the war on the ATTACK at a place of my choosing.  Just don't think you can drive the aggressiveness out of me--even in late-1944...

L'Audace, L'Audace, Toujours L'Audace!



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Post #: 1777
RE: Rude - 2/24/2009 5:58:42 PM   
veji1

 

Posts: 1019
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		" de l'audace, de l'audace, toujours de l'audace, et la patrie sera sauvée !"
Audacity, audacity, always audacity, and the motherland shall be saved... fitting quote..;

I totally seee your point John. at this stage in the war with Dan having bombers AND fighter bases near de Home islands + Rolling you down in China, there isn't much fun to be had if you can't go for a big bang... And regarding realism/historical behaviour, I find your offensive only slightly more audacious than Dan's landing in the far north without close support base in late 43... And this big gamble changed the game...

Obviously your gamble won't change the course of the game, but if you can have a bit of fun, at least that will be it... After that you will be able to play your turns in 10 minutes and let Dan slug through his logistical nightmare for hours...

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Post #: 1778
RE: Rude - 2/24/2009 6:23:14 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Oh, my...

The end of you post gave me a solid, good laugh!  There is far worse to be described.  Screenshot to be posted in about 1 minute...



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Post #: 1779
Pacific Fleet - 2/24/2009 6:24:36 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Here comes--knowing Dan--the ENTIRE Pacific Fleet.

Poor Grace pilots...at least they served to get off an apparent radio broadcast...






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Post #: 1780
chance of success - 2/24/2009 6:27:16 PM   
Mark VII


Posts: 1838
Joined: 8/11/2003
From: Brentwood,TN
Status: offline 		I think you have a good plan for this game. Maybe unrealistic IRL but perfect for how WitP tends to be played. Most players on both sides tend to under garrison(as you know) their rear areas. Often there is no combat garrison at all in back water home areas.

Depending on recent Indian reinforcements, there is probably not much in India to get in your way. Though one prepped division or brigade could really slow your advance down. This plan could score alot of victory points for you if you can hold onto some cities. And yes, I would think there would be some kind of massive Allied redeployment from other areas if he understands the risk of allowing the Japs to run around in India.

The fact that KB is mostly intact is very important. Transferring air units will be the first to arrive. KB air may be able to shred the early arrivals should he commit them right away in desparation. After that will be alot of luck. It all depends on what kind of ground combat units are laying around in India. If the ground units need to be shipped in order to save India, they will arrive to late and will be forced into the "taking back cities mode".

I think this could change the war(victory points) if there is no or little combat garrison in India.....good luck!

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Post #: 1781
RE: Pacific Fleet - 2/24/2009 6:32:13 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Lol, thats why a max of 450 a/c in a single sea hex is a popular house rule. Nothing gets through a CAP of that size.

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Post #: 1782
Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 6:42:45 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Combat Report
October 4, 1944

OK.. As if spotting the Pacific Fleet isn't enough.  Allied firepower is on display throughout the entire Pacific (with the notable exception of Soerabaja!!!).  These were the developments of the turn:

South China
Canton
This base is invested by 18 Units moving down from the west.  Another 14 units wait to the NW a hex away.  Canton has 90 Allied Figthers flying LR CAP over it and was hit by about 100 4EB.

Hong Kong
The British STF stays and bombards the base for little damage.  Six Chinese Corps/Divisions then start landing on Hong Kong's beaches.  While this is going on, the base is covered by 60 Allied Fighters on LR CAP.  Striking the AF and troops is an impressive 125 4EB and 100 B-29.

Swatow
This poor base is nailed by 225 bombers and has 50 Allied Figthers flying LR CAP.

Cold Bay, Aleutians
The last Japanese base in the north is landed upon by 2 American Inf Div.

Port Moresby, New Guinea
Six Allied TF begin landing an Inf Div, Brigade, TK Reg, HQ unit, and 2 base forces.  Here they are met by strong CD fire that damages about 20 ships and sinks a MSW.  A strong Japanese Brigade, CD unit, and Base Force still hold this base.  There are enough supplies to hold for a while.  Dan probably didn't figure to hit real resistance.  I move 2 Figther Daitai and 2 Bomber units to Rabaul.  They will move to Lae once a recon is flown over the Invasion Force to see if there is LR CAP in place.  I'll bet there is...

Muntok, DEI
It doesn't fit with the disasterous turn but 1576 Troops of the 5307th Comp RCT surrender to two Japanese inf Units.  These troops were dropped off and then left behind about 10 days ago.  Not very sporting of the Brits to drop off these Americans and then abandon them!

Tokyo
Yee Gods...a total of 181 Fighters (over 100 Franks) fly CAP this day.  They are SWARMED over by a DOUBLE Fighter Sweep flown from Tori Shima and Iwo Jima.  The first Sweep is 74 P-47 and the second is 75 P-38.  Over 160 Japanese Fighters fall in exchange for only 30 American planes! 

Now come the bombers...
Wave 1--9 Fighters try to attack 168 4EB from Sakhalin.  They shot down 4 bombers in exchange for 8 F and 1 B, 279 Cas, 5 Aircraft Ind hits, and 40 holes in the AF.

Wave 2--13 Fighters rise to fight 233 B-29 from Sakhalin.  Only 3 B-29 are shot down for 5 Fighters, 73 Ohka Hits (why attack that??), and 25 holes int he AF.


THAT is power!  


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Post #: 1783
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 6:47:45 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Mark is spot-on when it comes to the obstacles of the attack.  I am willing to bet that Dan has bought out nearly everything in India to move with his attacks.  He is leaving substantial garrisons behind in Malaya and Indochina.  There are at least 5-7 units each at Singapore, Johore Bharu, Bangkok, Saigon, Cam Ranh Bay, Hanoi, and Haiphong.

I'll use my TK REg as recon ranging out to find resistance and will then flow around it.  In many ways this is a Blitzkrieg Scenario of finding the resistance, flowing around it, and then dealing with it only if forced to...



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Post #: 1784
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 6:52:48 PM   
Big B

 

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline 		Did both of those fighter sweeps hit in the same air phase?


quote:

ORIGINAL: John 3rd


Yee Gods...a total of 181 Fighters (over 100 Franks) fly CAP this day.  They are SWARMED over by a DOUBLE Fighter Sweep flown from Tori Shima and Iwo Jima.  The first Sweep is 74 P-47 and the second is 75 P-38.  Over 160 Japanese Fighters fall in exchange for only 30 American planes! 

Now come the bombers...
Wave 1--9 Fighters try to attack 168 4EB from Sakhalin.  They shot down 4 bombers in exchange for 8 F and 1 B, 279 Cas, 5 Aircraft Ind hits, and 40 holes in the AF.

Wave 2--13 Fighters rise to fight 233 B-29 from Sakhalin.  Only 3 B-29 are shot down for 5 Fighters, 73 Ohka Hits (why attack that??), and 25 holes int he AF.


THAT is power!  



Either way, the American "end game" is pretty awesome.

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Post #: 1785
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 8:16:40 PM   
heenanc

 

Posts: 412
Joined: 2/25/2007
Status: offline 		I tried to break Canton in a game against the AI it a very tough nut to crack.

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Post #: 1786
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 8:58:23 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Brian--The Sweeps did not happen together.  It was frightening to watch...

Canton should be tough as an urban hex with Fort at 9 but supply is the issue.  Caught a break on the 10/5 turn.  Slipped 3 5,000 AK loaded with supply into Swatow.  They weren't spotted until the afternoon and then a strike of B-25 couldn't find them.  At least they will get a good portion unloaded before being sunk.

Moved some planes around and have a Kamikaze Strike planned for Hong Kong tomorrow.  Hope get some strikes at Port Moresby too.  Anything is better then nothing.


Invasion Force just rendezvoused and turned NW for India...
 


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Post #: 1787
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 9:32:10 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		I find it absolutely amazing that your force has escaped detection to this point. Not an easy feat, assembling the majority of the Imperial Navy, move it halfway across the Pacific & not have a single sub, merchant, or recon squadron stumble across it.

It is going to be bloody fun to watch what happens! Good luck!

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Post #: 1788
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 10:00:25 PM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		Only problem with your statement Sir is that we only just got moving.

When the Kaigun departs it will go EmCon.  No recon, no ASW, nothing.  The only part that will be important is CAP (Range 0).  It will take FOREVER for the transports to get to their destination...



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Post #: 1789
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 10:34:16 PM   
heenanc

 

Posts: 412
Joined: 2/25/2007
Status: offline 		CANTON

I wish I still had the save... I remember looking for it a couple of weeks ago but couldn't find it. It was being pounded day after day by air and by sea the resource were at 0 and it was completely cut off for about a month. I was using 6000 AV of Chinese troops against AI and tried a shock attack.... 0-1. After turning the turn around all I remember seeing is 3 divisions with almost no support but about 1/2 to 1/3 AV.

Though I would try my chances as PBEM instead, never did take it.

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Post #: 1790
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 10:44:47 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		L'audace, l'audace, toujours l'audace... et preparer les cimetieres.

Audacity is not a suitable replacement for a finely honed and logistically well-supported plan. To paraphrase a contemporary of Cardigan I will say - It's glorious but it isn't something to emulate.

I will find it interesting to watch this play out but I think that aggression for aggression's sake is never warranted. I would riposte as follows: L'audace, l'audace mais ne jamais pas sans reflechement. 

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Post #: 1791
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 10:56:46 PM   
Cuttlefish

 

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline 		Never give up! Never surrender!

I like this plan. It's refreshingly insane. And as author Terry Pratchett explains, if it's exactly a million-to-one shot then it is guaranteed to work and save the day. If it's nine hundred thousand to one then you're hosed, but at least you will go out in a blaze of glory as befits a samurai.

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Post #: 1792
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 10:59:28 PM   
heenanc

 

Posts: 412
Joined: 2/25/2007
Status: offline 		If it doesn't work however you could alway just start another PBEM which is why this plan isn't insane. The realitys of life.

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Post #: 1793
RE: Aerial Might - 2/24/2009 11:04:57 PM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Ah, the results of a surfeit of hubris and testosterone .

Again, I will simply say that there is no problem with aggression but that aggression needs to be tempered with ruthless objectivity as regards benefits.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 2/24/2009 11:11:14 PM >

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Post #: 1794
RE: Aerial Might - 2/25/2009 12:07:27 AM   
heenanc

 

Posts: 412
Joined: 2/25/2007
Status: offline 		Surfeit = disgust caused by excess
hubris = modern English to indicate overweening pride, superciliousness, or arrogance.
testosterone = male hormones

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Post #: 1795
RE: Aerial Might - 2/25/2009 12:51:27 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		I would like to express my appreciation to the Great Minds that contribute to the Forum!  I have been chuckling for the last five minutes as I read this exchange!




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Post #: 1796
RE: Aerial Might - 2/25/2009 12:53:04 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		LOL heenanc. Why the translations?

FWIW I wasn't using surfeit in the "disgust caused by excess" way but rather in the manner of "unnecessary excess". Sometimes surfeit does carry a connotation of disgust but there was no such impugnation on this occasion.


P.s. Yes, in this post I'm having fun by agglutinating minor obfuscations... Opacities in the quotidian vernacular, if you will

Honestly I think native English speakers often don't realise just how rich the English language is. Weird but rich.

< Message edited by Nemo121 -- 2/25/2009 12:59:07 AM >

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Post #: 1797
RE: Aerial Might - 2/25/2009 12:55:04 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

Never give up! Never surrender!

I like this plan. It's refreshingly insane. And as author Terry Pratchett explains, if it's exactly a million-to-one shot then it is guaranteed to work and save the day. If it's nine hundred thousand to one then you're hosed, but at least you will go out in a blaze of glory as befits a samurai.


"Never Give Up. Never Surrender" Galaxy Quest was a film that had me laughing so I hard I was crying the first time I saw it. It was one of the funniest parodies I had seen in a long time.

The power of positive thinking and a 1,000,000 to 1 shot. Prefer to move back to Oddball in Kelly's Heroes. "Its a Mother-beautiful bridge and its GONNA be there..."

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Post #: 1798
RE: Aerial Might - 2/25/2009 12:56:34 AM   
John 3rd


Posts: 17178
Joined: 9/8/2005
From: La Salle, Colorado
Status: offline 		impugnation    NICE word!

...and I am a College Professor of History....


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Post #: 1799
RE: Aerial Might - 2/25/2009 12:56:55 AM   
Nemo121


Posts: 5821
Joined: 2/6/2004
Status: offline 		Don't give me negative waves Moriarty......

Negative waves? I've been thinking nothing but beautiful thoughts about that bridge all morning

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Post #: 1800
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