Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: ravinhood

Hahah welcome to the green dot then IGMO. hahah

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE

Well you have already admitted you hate the Government and I see no reason to expect you to cowboy up and admit that what you stated was wrong. You have your own agenda of hate and I have a game to watch.

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ORIGINAL: KG Erwin

The state of West Virginia's tax dept has ceased using social security numbers as prime identifiers for taxpayers. We have a new system that assigns separate account numbers for each individual or business, and they are different for each type of tax.

We long ago stopped printing SSNs on mailing labels, following the IRS' lead.

Now, for the more paranoid amongst you, if you ever filed a tax return here in WV, I can find out a lot of stuff about you. That's why, as a condition of employment, we all sign confidentality agreements.

So, yeah, I am part of what most people call "them" or "they". Contrary to what you might believe, the actual workers are trustworthy and honest people. I can't speak for our governmental leaders.

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ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro
I'm am simply pointing out the stupidity of giving any additional power to a government that will not perform its duties which it already has more than enough authority to carry out. Dummy's and cowards will bend over for them tail the day they die-that's how they are, right?

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ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE
I do not think that the US is following Hungary and in my small minded way I would much rather have Hispanics coming illegally into my country than godless communist hoards who had religion beaten out of them for 40+ years.

I find I have more in common with our Hispanic immigrants who like to work than I do with people who lived in a socialist system that rewarded the monkey who pushed the right button and lacks morals.

Thanks for sharing your views with me.
There are a few points in which you are wrong so please let me take the chance to clarify it.

1. Not everybody in a communist state was communist. In fact it was seen as a kind of privilege (and indeed the party members had more rights than averge citizens). Here we had less than 10% of the population was party member and onyl half of it really atheist.
We had worse statistics here than in Poland where some 90% of the population was religious even under the commies. I remember participating in the Taize youth meeting in Wroclaw in 1998 (IIRC) I have seen not a single policeman onyl traffic controllers.

2. Communism is dead since some 20+ yrs since after 1986 we were living in a state controlled capitalism.

3. Due to the commies the civil society is powerless, so what I meant that zaibatsus ie mega corporations play a much higher role here than in other western countries. And it looks like the future heads in htis way. The central gvot so despised by most of you is becoming more and more powerless and these zaibatsus take over its place.
In eastern europe it will take some 10+ yrs before they consume the politicians, in other western countries it will be some 15+20 yrs.

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ORIGINAL: Reiryc

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE

Well you have already admitted you hate the Government and I see no reason to expect you to cowboy up and admit that what you stated was wrong. You have your own agenda of hate and I have a game to watch.

Admitted? I didn't admit anything. I stated it clearly and without reservation. What I didn't do is state that I fear the government. That was again, a strawman of your own making. It's just another example of you seeing only what you want to see.

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE
If you hate it why not leave?

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ORIGINAL: Reiryc

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE
If you hate it why not leave?

Because life is more complex than living by a childish slogan of 'love it or leave it'...

Adults understand that reality and wouldn't ask the question in the first place...

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE
You mean you hate the government and it is evil but you cannot find a better place. You vote with your feet my friend.

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ORIGINAL: Reiryc

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE
You mean you hate the government and it is evil but you cannot find a better place. You vote with your feet my friend.

No, I mean that there is more to consider in life than just myself. Mature adults understand that in life, one needs to make decisions based upon more than just one's own feelings/beliefs.

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE
Well if you are speaking about children why would you raise them in this evil land where the government is plotting to enslave and imprison you. Where they will send you to prison for jay walking.

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ORIGINAL: Reiryc

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE
Well if you are speaking about children why would you raise them in this evil land where the government is plotting to enslave and imprison you. Where they will send you to prison for jay walking.

What makes you think I am talking about children?

Hey look, another strawman to boot. Oh well, I guess when you can't win an argument it's best for you to make one up and defeat it!

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE

?????? All I said was IF you are speaking about children. Look up what IF means. You could tell me why you cannot leave then we could discuss it because I would have no idea why you feel you cannot leave. You are so filled with hate you try to twist everything. No wonder why something so complex as the Constitution and laws have you filled with hate.

You keep trying to change the discussion so there really is not reason to try to discuss anything with you.

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE

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ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro
I'm am simply pointing out the stupidity of giving any additional power to a government that will not perform its duties which it already has more than enough authority to carry out. Dummy's and cowards will bend over for them tail the day they die-that's how they are, right?

Well if you are not a dummy or a coward what are you doing about this?

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ORIGINAL:
You complain that they are not doing anything then when they try to do something about it you complain about that too. I guess as long as you are complaining you are not a dummy or coward right?

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ORIGINAL:
What power does a national ID card give the Government?

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE
Hello Ursa MAior,

First I apologize for painting everyone in former communist countries with such a broad stroke. You are correct to point out that many people not only did not support these governments but even resisted them.

I understand Poles are doing very well in the UK where a lot have emigrated to and I hope the Polish economy keeps growing. My worries are with the organized crime rings in the countries. I myself am not an overly religious man but I appreciate the morals that religion teaches children. It seems that there is a large minority in the former communist countries that are ruthless and lacking in similar values to my own. I find that in general I share more in common with the Hispanic immigrants in my country than those from Eastern Europe.

I have a personal prejudice against Eastern Europeans because I rightly or wrongly think they are more likely to try to milk the system and not contribute.
Best of luck.

Art by the amazing Dixie

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ORIGINAL: Zap

Reiryc,
You have served in the military or are presently serving right? That does not seem to me to be hate for your counrty or government but a sense of duty and love for it. I fail to see the hate desrcibed by Orange in any of your arguments.

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ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

I see there is a big resistence toward an ID card which is completely part of normal life in EU, still dont understand why. In our country it works well against illegal immigrnts who come from surprising lands like Afghanistan, Algeria and the like.

Rgrds

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ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

A national ID could be beneficial for the U.S. The problem is that the government is not trusted to do the right thing with its new data bank. We have a government which wants to give various Id's to illegals, including drivers licenses. What difference will a new photo card make? Could it be counterfeited? Will there be corrupt officials that hand them out to illegals? I don't like being so pessimistic, but under the circumstances, I have no choice.

If I understand the situation correctly, in the E.U., people are allowed to move about freely between the member states-for work or to actually relocate. I assume it would be quite difficult for a Hungarian policeman to tap into German data banks to check out someone who claims to be German. With an EU wide system, that would not be a problem. Under those new European circumstances, an EU ID card would make sense. As for a national ID card for Hungarians, I suppose that would be helpful also due to the myriad of borders and nation states in the area. It is still open to abuse, and apparently has not stopped illegal immigration into various European states.

If the U.S. government was to do a few things-like make an earnest effort to seal the southern border to terrorists and migrants, then I would be more inclined to support a national ID card, but it probably wouldn't be necessary then. The pols like to babble about "comprehensive" reform this, that and the other. When the politicians start talking "comprehensive", they are really saying "obfuscate", "delay", and "bury".

Art by the amazing Dixie

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ORIGINAL: Ursa MAior

As of politicians. I dunno how is it in the US but here (in Hungary) we cannot make our politicians responsible even when acting completely against their program (for fulfilling which they were elected). Probably we will need a new constitution cuz the current patched up version of the communist one is far from ideal. Maybe a new way of selecting polticians should be invented. For me they representate themselves, then the people who supported their election, and only rarely the will of the people who elected them.

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ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

I remember reading about the Hungarian fiasco a year or two ago (maybe more-time fly's)-that was a good one. That mess was headed up by a very popular head of government-I assume he is still in. This is just more reason to justify limiting government to the bare necessities. They simply can't be trusted.

Art by the amazing Dixie

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ORIGINAL: Reiryc

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE

?????? All I said was IF you are speaking about children. Look up what IF means. You could tell me why you cannot leave then we could discuss it because I would have no idea why you feel you cannot leave. You are so filled with hate you try to twist everything. No wonder why something so complex as the Constitution and laws have you filled with hate.

You keep trying to change the discussion so there really is not reason to try to discuss anything with you.

Ah yes, the innocent game. You tried this with jim H in the macbook discussion as well when you made implications about what he does or does not do on a computer.

The strawman has to do with your comment about jaywalking which of course misrepresented what I said. Anyways, it's been clear from the beginning that you weren't interested in having a discussion but were playing the 'gotcha' game. That's why you tried the strawman about the 'southern' states or played the game with state(s) or with the word few when I mentioned 2 states. The kids comment was just another one of those 'gotcha' questions that made implications based upon false premises that you put forth as truth.

Discussions are more concerned with the points being made rather than diddling around with things listed above like you've done.

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ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro

A national ID could be beneficial for the U.S. The problem is that the government is not trusted to do the right thing with its new data bank. We have a government which wants to give various Id's to illegals, including drivers licenses. What difference will a new photo card make? Could it be counterfeited? Will there be corrupt officials that hand them out to illegals? I don't like being so pessimistic, but under the circumstances, I have no choice.

If I understand the situation correctly, in the E.U., people are allowed to move about freely between the member states-for work or to actually relocate. I assume it would be quite difficult for a Hungarian policeman to tap into German data banks to check out someone who claims to be German. With an EU wide system, that would not be a problem. Under those new European circumstances, an EU ID card would make sense. As for a national ID card for Hungarians, I suppose that would be helpful also due to the myriad of borders and nation states in the area. It is still open to abuse, and apparently has not stopped illegal immigration into various European states.

If the U.S. government was to do a few things-like make an earnest effort to seal the southern border to terrorists and migrants, then I would be more inclined to support a national ID card, but it probably wouldn't be necessary then. The pols like to babble about "comprehensive" reform this, that and the other. When the politicians start talking "comprehensive", they are really saying "obfuscate", "delay", and "bury".

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This is just a jumble of your personal feelings and that makes it hard to deal with the real world. Will corrupt officials at the DMV sell ID cards illegally? I have no idea. Someone may do it. That does not mean that this is systematic or that it is bound to happen.

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ORIGINAL:
I would like to know what happened to that state employee that got caught.

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ORIGINAL:
And then there is the little gem of a government that wants to give drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. Those are also state governments and there are reasons for this that make sense. Can they be counterfeited? Probably but so can a lot of government and non-government documents. So? It is my belief that this would be a lot harder to counterfeit than currency so I will not cry about what has not happened yet.

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ORIGINAL: 06 Maestro



Mr. Orange; my statements are based on common knowledge which are in turn based on facts. If you wish to have total faith in the central government, that's your business. You should be able to understand that there is good reason for many not to trust the central government.

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This is just a jumble of your personal feelings and that makes it hard to deal with the real world. Will corrupt officials at the DMV sell ID cards illegally? I have no idea. Someone may do it. That does not mean that this is systematic or that it is bound to happen.

It seems perfectly rational to anticipate future performance or actions based on a past established practice by either an individual or an organization. While its true that is involves making assumptions, this is a normal practice in many areas of human activity.

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ORIGINAL:
I would like to know what happened to that state employee that got caught.

You can goggle the Las Vegas Review Journal. With a little bit of work, you can find the story. As an American, you should be aware that the head of the local immigration office is a federal employee-as are all Immigration and Naturalization Service employees are. It is suppose to be a federal responsibility to grant status. The feds don't like anyone stepping in their area-unless of course it is someone helping illegals, as so called "sanctuary cities" do.

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ORIGINAL:
And then there is the little gem of a government that wants to give drivers licenses to illegal immigrants. Those are also state governments and there are reasons for this that make sense. Can they be counterfeited? Probably but so can a lot of government and non-government documents. So? It is my belief that this would be a lot harder to counterfeit than currency so I will not cry about what has not happened yet.

These things happen every day of the week. Police officers have openly stated that it is a waste of time to even give traffic tickets to illegals, as they don't pay and don't show up for court. Why even give them a license under these circumstances? It really seems like you are not aware of the burden that these people are putting on our services (including the locking up of violent criminals) on the various governments of the US. In view of the fact that Mexicans have flooded nearly every state of the Union, I can't help to wonder where you live at. Wherever it is, it must be a nice place if you can just forget about traffic tickets, or jaywalking tickets, ignore court summons, and not worry about getting arrested.

I really don't want to be insulting, but are you an adult?

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ORIGINAL: ORANGE


As for where I live I see illegal immigrants all the time but I guess I am not that big a racist that I have to blame all of my problems on them and mindlessly oppose all new initiatives because of them.