RE: Play Calls and Gameplans

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [Sports] >> Maximum-Football 2.0 >> RE: Play Calls and Gameplans

Page: << < prev 1 [2]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/27/2008 9:06:13 PM

Yngvai

Posts: 82
Joined: 1/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yngvai

As mentioned in my initial post, in a 0-0 ball game (TIED), with me on my opponent's 36 yard line (DFG26-75), with more than 10 minutes in the half, the game should call plays that are in the situation I marked with an asterisk. But it does not.

Please send me, or attach here, your playbook. At the moment I don't think I need the plays just yet, just the playbook database.

thanks
David

OK I PMed you a copy

(in reply to David Winter)

Post #: 31

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/27/2008 9:17:56 PM

Scott_WAR

Posts: 1020
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yngvai

Wow, this thread grew fast.

The ANY situation is not causing my problem. I don't have any ANY'S in my profile at all.

Let me list the 1st down, TIED situations I have in my offensive profile to illustrate...

DN1, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG76-95, TIED
DN1, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED*
DN1, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG6-25, TIED
DN1, TG>1, TIH>10, DFG<=5, TIED
DN1, TG>1, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED
DN1, TG>10, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED
DN1, TG>10, TIH>10, DFG76-95, TIED

As mentioned in my initial post, in a 0-0 ball game (TIED), with me on my opponent's 36 yard line (DFG26-75), with more than 10 minutes in the half, the game should call plays that are in the situation I marked with an asterisk. But it does not.

You have this-

DN1, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED*

and this

DN1, TG>1, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED

ON 1rst and 10 both are valid, so according to the way it works now the game will get the pass/run % from the first group listed, but will take a play out of EITHER group since they are both valid.

< Message edited by Scott_WAR -- 1/27/2008 9:18:42 PM >

(in reply to Yngvai)

Post #: 32

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/27/2008 9:48:31 PM

Yngvai

Posts: 82
Joined: 1/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott_WAR

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yngvai

Wow, this thread grew fast.

The ANY situation is not causing my problem. I don't have any ANY'S in my profile at all.

Let me list the 1st down, TIED situations I have in my offensive profile to illustrate...

DN1, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG76-95, TIED
DN1, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED*
DN1, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG6-25, TIED
DN1, TG>1, TIH>10, DFG<=5, TIED
DN1, TG>1, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED
DN1, TG>10, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED
DN1, TG>10, TIH>10, DFG76-95, TIED

As mentioned in my initial post, in a 0-0 ball game (TIED), with me on my opponent's 36 yard line (DFG26-75), with more than 10 minutes in the half, the game should call plays that are in the situation I marked with an asterisk. But it does not.

You have this-

DN1, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED*

and this

DN1, TG>1, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED

ON 1rst and 10 both are valid, so according to the way it works now the game will get the pass/run % from the first group listed, but will take a play out of EITHER group since they are both valid.

I had thought of that possibility but that's not the problem because the plays it's calling are not in *either* group

(in reply to Scott_WAR)

Post #: 33

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 2:16:32 AM

Scott_WAR

Posts: 1020
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline

And more problems.....

Going back through my playbooks, fixing them, I decided to move my 1rst and ANY in all catagory play group to the very bottom of the situations list, so that the pass/run percentage there wont be used in other more specific groups,.... since the first applicable group is udes to determine the pass run % on the play. Well, when I made a new group, it did NOT appear at the bottom of the situation list but in the middle of it.

So, I really cant use ANY because it will cause the % of the time I run/pass wrong on my more specific groups that are listed below it,...... and since I dont have any real control over where it is now.....

So that is another problem,....... the� game uses the first group it comes across to get the pass/run %, and needs to get it from the most applicable group. This can be done with a LOT of thought put into where each situation is in the list. (Again, exclusive would be so much better).
But without being able to move these situations around in the list after they have been created, makes this extremely frustrating..

< Message edited by Scott_WAR -- 1/28/2008 2:19:40 AM >

(in reply to Yngvai)

Post #: 34

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 8:20:30 AM

Marauders

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

So, I really cant use ANY because it will cause the % of the time I run/pass wrong on my more specific groups that are listed below it,...... and since I dont have any real control over where it is now ...

You can't use ANY, or you can't use ANY the way that you wanted to use it?

Please keep in mind that a major reason for having ALL as an option was to take the place of having to create situations for any given area rather than to supplement more detailed situations. It is a feature that was added to help create more general gameplans without having to fill in every situation like had to be done in FBPro. You are concentrating on what it does not do rather than what it can do or what additional benefit it allows when creating gameplans.

I understand what you would like the command to do. Perhaps it would be easier if ALL was an ALL ELSE command, as that is what many of us thought it was supposed to be, but either way, we have to be able to understand what it does do and make the best use of it in our gameplans.

Every situation group would be exclusive if >1, >5, and >10 would be changed as I have stated above to be >1-5, >5-10, and >10-15 respectively. The use of ALL would still be optional, and there would be no other groups that would overlap.

(in reply to Scott_WAR)

Post #: 35

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 10:29:21 AM

Shaggyra

Posts: 608
Joined: 2/10/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Marauders
...
Every situation group would be exclusive if >1, >5, and >10 would be changed as I have stated above to be >1-5, >5-10, and >10-15 respectively.��The use of ALL would still be optional, and there would be no other groups that would overlap.

I think this is the solution I like best

_____________________________

FBMax for Maximum Football

(in reply to Marauders)

Post #: 36

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 10:56:56 AM

Scott_WAR

Posts: 1020
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline

No I cant use 'any' AND get my specific situations to not get overidden by it, because when I creat a '1rst and any in all catagories- run 60%/pass40%' situation to my playbook, instead of appearing at the bottom of the list of situations I have already created, it appears in the middle of the list, so if its 1rst and 10, with less than a minute left with me losing by 3, and I have a situation specifically for that where I pass 100% of the time, but its below where the previously mentioned 1rst and any group is, the first and any group will be used to get the run/pass %,.... in this case 60% run and 40% pass, instead of the situation specific 100% pass group listed below it.

Unless I start all over with my playbook,....... and if thats what I must do,....this becomes a problem if I create it, make a bunch of situations, and decide to add to it later, since I cant control where the situation groups are in the list.

(in reply to Shaggyra)

Post #: 37

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 12:58:43 PM

hack153

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline

a long time ago i talked about profiles.

the situations can not be too advanced. for example, if you have a 1st and 10 situation in your profile, the profile will not run plays out of a situation of 1st and 10, <1min, 7-10 pts ahead.

i haven't played for about 6 months and i'm hoping that david will take some of the suggestions made a while ago and will keep improving the profiles.

the game is really looking good. it has come a long way since i first got it a year and a half ago. good job to david and his team!

_____________________________

UPFL is in the off season...
United Premier Football League

(in reply to Yngvai)

Post #: 38

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 7:43:36 PM

Marauders

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline

quote:

Scott_WAR stated: No, I cant use 'any' AND get my specific situations to not get overidden by it, because when I creat a '1st and any in all catagories - run 60%/pass40%' situation to my playbook, instead of appearing at the bottom of the list of situations I have already created, it appears in the middle of the list, so if its 1rst and 10, with less than a minute left with me losing by 3, and I have a situation specifically for that where I pass 100% of the time, but its below where the previously mentioned 1rst and any group is, the first and any group will be used to get the run/pass %,.... in this case 60% run and 40% pass, instead of the situation specific 100% pass group listed below it.

I don't believe you understand my previous post. You are still attempting to use ANY up the line of more specific groups. While David is looking into making a change that would allow one to do that and retain the specific group, that was not what the ANY command was originally put in to do. It was put in to cover areas that one was not going to put in more specific situations.

Here is a small example of how ANY would be used as it stands now:

DN1, TGANY, TIHANY, DFGANY, TIED
DN2, TGANY, TIHANY, DFGANY, TIED
DN3, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG76-95, TIED
DN3, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED
DN3, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG6-25, TIED
DN4, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG76-95, TIED
DN4, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG26-75, TIED
DN4, TG>5, TIH>10, DFG6-25, TIED

Note that the ANY variable does not overlap with more specific groups. On downs 1 and 2 this gameplan doesn't worry about yards to go.

If DN2, TG>10, TIH>10, DFG<=5, TIED was added, these plays would be added to the any plays in that situation as plays available. In this case, one would likely add a few extra long passes to go with the general plays that were part of the ALL group.

Having ANY as an option makes it much easier to define large areas of the gameplan that one would not normally need to be specific with.

I agree that if David can make the change that would make ANY become ANY ELSE (Any unless there is a 100% specific instance found) regarding specific situations, it would allow ANY to be used to cover more areas that could not be covered now. It would allow ANY to fill in the cracks of situations that one doesn't want to be specific but would otherwise overlap specific areas if ANY was used someplace up the tree. This is what you would want it to do, and it would make gameplans easier to design.

This gains more importance considering that the half designator may be in use in the future. If specific situations were not allowed to stand on their own, it would be difficult to use the ANY half indicator without diluting the end of half and end of game specific gameplan groups.

quote:

quote:

Marauders stated:Every situation group would be exclusive if >1, >5, and >10 would be changed as I have stated above to be >1-5, >5-10, and >10-15 respectively. The use of ALL would still be optional, and there would be no other groups that would overlap.

Shaggyra stated: I think this is the solution I like best.

I asked David about this, and the operators are set up as a case. That means if >15 is true, it will take that and not check >10 .... The code runs down the case until it finds a true condition. That means they are exclusive already, so >1 already means >1-5 ....

This is an important consideration when creating gameplans.

< Message edited by Marauders -- 1/29/2008 1:31:32 AM >

(in reply to Scott_WAR)

Post #: 39

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 9:12:31 PM

David Winter

Posts: 5158
Joined: 11/24/2004
From: Vancouver, BC
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: cbelva
I have to agree with Deft. The ability to "copy and paste" the plays situations would make this a lot easier. There are time I want to build a new situation and make it similiar to a different situation. Right now you have to rebuild each situation from scratch. There is a "copy" button, but it does not work. And the specific plays are not copied, just the situation setup. An example of how I would like to see it work:

DN1, <=1, <= 5 YARDS FROM GOAL--THEN HAVE 5 PLAYS SELECTED.
then copy this same sitution and change the condition from 1st down to 2nd down. When you copy the first one, the same plays are added in the copy to the new situation.

Now, you have to reselect each play for each situation one at a time which can be tedious. This would save a lot of time and make setting up gameplans easy.

Also, I like Deft's idea about selecting more than one play at a time.

I brought this up way back when Maximum Football was release, but no one else picked up on it.

This might not be ~exactly~ what you're looking for, but with v2.2 the SAVE AS button on the play group now presents the option to also copy the play groups files over as well. So you can "copy" by opening a play group, changing one of the settings, and saving it as a new group. Then choose whether or not to copy the plays over as well.

thanks
David

(in reply to cbelva)

Post #: 40

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 9:27:44 PM

Yngvai

Posts: 82
Joined: 1/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Yngvai

As mentioned in my initial post, in a 0-0 ball game (TIED), with me on my opponent's 36 yard line (DFG26-75), with more than 10 minutes in the half, the game should call plays that are in the situation I marked with an asterisk. But it does not.

Please send me, or attach here, your playbook. At the moment I don't think I need the plays just yet, just the playbook database.

thanks
David

So I noticed the same problem on defense....the game calling plays that aren't in the profile. To test this, I made a simplified profile with only about 5-6 ANY situations that would cover all situations, except each one was for a different formation. But the game still sometimes called plays outside of the plays that were in the profile.

(in reply to David Winter)

Post #: 41

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 9:38:04 PM

Marauders

Posts: 4428
Joined: 3/17/2005
From: Minnesota
Status: offline

Yngvai, we will be testing a few changes in the gameplan to see how they work. We will test the calls as well.

As always, we thank you, Scott, Hack, and others for contributing your comments and questions.

It is really nice to have an active and involved community for Maximum Football.

(in reply to Yngvai)

Post #: 42

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 9:59:44 PM

jdhalfrack

Posts: 293
Joined: 10/22/2007
From: Springfield, IL
Status: offline

quote:

It is really nice to have an active and involved community for Maximum Football.

It's also nice to have an active and involved staff! And, I'm sure I speak for us all when I say thank you, David and Marauders, too!

JD

< Message edited by jdhalfrack -- 1/28/2008 10:00:15 PM >

_____________________________

Latest Max FB Databse Editor: Max FB Database Editor (v 1.7.0)

(in reply to Marauders)

Post #: 43

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 10:07:56 PM

Yngvai

Posts: 82
Joined: 1/5/2008
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: jdhalfrack

quote:

It is really nice to have an active and involved community for Maximum Football.

It's also nice to have an active and involved staff! And, I'm sure I speak for us all when I say thank you, David and Marauders, too!

JD

I concur. It's not often you get a game where you get to be in direct contact with the designers and testers.

(in reply to jdhalfrack)

Post #: 44

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 10:25:47 PM

DreamTeams

Posts: 520
Joined: 5/19/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: David Winter

This might not be ~exactly~ what you're looking for, but with v2.2 the SAVE AS button on the play group now presents the option to also copy the play groups files over as well. So you can "copy" by opening a play group, changing one of the settings, and saving it as a new group. Then choose whether or not to copy the plays over as well.

thanks
David

Hooray!! What a time saver. Thanks.

_____________________________

Visit my solo Metro Football League

(in reply to David Winter)

Post #: 45

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/28/2008 11:20:06 PM

Scott_WAR

Posts: 1020
Joined: 2/24/2005
Status: offline

I agree, if there is an award or reconginition available for developers that listen and care what their customers want,David would have to be very high on the list, probably at the top.

(in reply to DreamTeams)

Post #: 46

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/29/2008 12:16:05 AM

DONMVP

Posts: 1378
Joined: 3/6/2006
From: Husker in california
Status: offline

I`ll throw my 2 cents into the pot .You guys do a great job of helping us game players .

(in reply to Scott_WAR)

Post #: 47

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 1/29/2008 4:58:55 AM

Deft

Posts: 299
Joined: 9/17/2005
Status: offline

David, thank you for that big help on the copy option. That helps out alot!

(in reply to DONMVP)

Post #: 48

RE: Play Calls and Gameplans - 2/5/2008 7:06:38 AM

hack153

Posts: 525
Joined: 11/11/2006
From: New Englander in Northern, Northern California
Status: offline

the "any" option is really good because if we didn't have it we would have to create a million groups (ok...at least a couple hundred). it would be nice if the game could recognize the most specific situation...as in 1st and 10, any, any, is different than 1st and 10, 26-75, <1min, Dn 3.

i have made a lot of groups and it seems like it is never ending. is there anyway the updates could include every situation/group possible? this way it wouldn't be an issue. or, have a general gameplan for your team with pass/run ratios somehow in the mix.

also, could the 26-75 be broken down into 2 categories. i would like to have a group where i go for it on 4th <1, but not on the other 38 yard line.

thanks for listening!

_____________________________

UPFL is in the off season...
United Premier Football League

(in reply to David Winter)

Post #: 49