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RE: anyone else about read to give up??????

 
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RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/5/2008 12:16:02 PM   
Marc von Martial


Posts: 10875
Joined: 1/4/2001
From: Bonn, Germany
Status: offline
quote:

So in other words, to ensure absolute 100% identical installed versions in a gaming group, you reinstall the game from scratch and then apply the latest patch. You don't apply the latest patch on top of an installed game with the previous patch, right ???


Nope, you will just need to install it over your current installation.

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Marc von Martial
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(in reply to eske)
Post #: 91
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/5/2008 2:33:55 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JanSorensen
You cannot both claim that you know and state that the AI is mainly for practice - yet have that statement show nowhere on the page selling the game.


<sigh> Jan, I personally said that before release. I can't find the post now. As I said above, I consider _most_ AIs to be only for practice. Please re-read my posts above regarding my real point.


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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

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Post #: 92
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/5/2008 2:35:47 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: eske
So in other words, to ensure absolute 100% identical installed versions in a gaming group, you reinstall the game from scratch and then apply the latest patch. You don't apply the latest patch on top of an installed game with the previous patch, right ???


You can do it either way, since the comprehensive update will overwrite with all the updated files. If people have been applying multiple beta updates it might be safest to start with a clean install + update but it _shouldn't_ matter.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to eske)
Post #: 93
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/5/2008 3:31:05 PM   
timewalker03

 

Posts: 171
Joined: 6/9/2003
From: Omaha, NE
Status: offline 		Hey Eric, I know I have contributed to this thread some, more with philosophical views than anything else. I believe it may be time to move on. Please lock this thread and call it good. We all know people are frustrated Myself included, but I will trudge along hence i joined my 5th PBEM game now. I understand your side and that you view it the way you need too. I also have to view my frustrations along with others from the point of view of the consumer. Time will tell if this is all for a good cause or not and I am on the side of hoping that this works out. Just do everyone a favor and lock this thread end put an end to this debate or complaint session.

Also Eske stop posting and get game 4 going again! lol

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 94
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/5/2008 3:49:45 PM   
eske

 

Posts: 258
Joined: 1/2/2008
Status: offline 		Oh, but I have

Arbiter is on it at the moment...
Looking forward to pick chits with you !

(some people, jeeez )

/eske



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Alea iacta est

(in reply to timewalker03)
Post #: 95
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/5/2008 6:18:22 PM   
Tater

 

Posts: 60
Joined: 12/25/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: borner

"get er' done"? Come on Tater you can do better than that.



The question is...do you deserve better than that.

Answer: No!


_____________________________

Later-

Tater

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 96
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/5/2008 11:16:04 PM   
Grymme

 

Posts: 1821
Joined: 12/16/2007
Status: offline 		Just wanted to say that i am a fan of the game. However o have kept of from buying the game because of what ive read here. Thats the negative. On the positive side i am waiting patiently for all bugs to be fixed and AI to be improved and when that is done i will buy the game. So Matrixgamesdevelopers, there is at least a 70 $ incentive (or whatever the game costs) for you to fix it :)

(in reply to Tater)
Post #: 97
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/6/2008 1:50:49 AM   
tevans6220

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Tater

BTW...

To those who are ready to give up...what are you waiting for...get 'er done...and spare the rest of us the whining.



Tater here's an idea. Give me the $69.99 that I paid for the game or personally fix the game for me. Otherwise shut your trap. People have a right to complain about a purchased product that doesn't work. Apparently the game works fine for you. So why are you even in this thread? Nobody forced you to read any of this so you're either a troublemaker or an idiot looking for your moment in the spotlight. Either way your smartass comments aren't appreciated and bring very little to the discussion. So either grow up or shut up.

< Message edited by tevans6220 -- 5/6/2008 1:51:29 AM >

(in reply to Tater)
Post #: 98
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/6/2008 3:22:43 PM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		I read in another thread that they are working on an editor. That is nice, and will be of use, but I hope it is not at the expense of  working on bugs or trying to get a better AI.

(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 99
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/6/2008 4:15:41 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		The editor is not a priority until bugs are resolved and AI is improved. I think Marshall posted about that in another thread - the new thread is just to gather ideas in the meantime.

< Message edited by Erik Rutins -- 5/6/2008 4:16:47 PM >

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Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to borner)
Post #: 100
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/6/2008 7:30:46 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

When I say that we will be enhancing the AI after we get through with fixing the serious bugs, I'm not calling the AI a new feature.

I can vouch for this being true. I started posting here the very day I found out about this game. Which just happened to be the release day (12/5, I think).

From the very first time Matrix said anything at all about priorities, they (you, in most cases) plainly stated the obvious: Bugs must be fixed first. Game-stopping bugs at the top of the list. Rules mistake and other bugs below that.

Only AFTER those were fixed was there any thought going to be given to the other two major areas:

Interface corrections and changes
AI enhancement

Virtually everybody who posted in response agreed with that line of thinking. In fact, it would crazy to think otherwise (and we said so to the small number of people who disagreed). One can't upgrade or enhance until the game actually works.

The one point I would debate is that I think there HAVE been both interface corrections and AI enhancements. In fact, this may very well be part of the reason for the ongoing instability.

In a perfect world, I would like to see absolutely NO changes to interface or AI until the major game-stopping bugs are all gone. There are only maybe 30 of those, so it should be relatively easy to make the list. Sticking to it could be more difficult.

This was the original purpose of 1.01, but some "features" crept into that release, and they may very well be part of the reason for the ongoing issues count to be going up.

Write me an email some time, and I'll explain what we used to call "a release manager" when I was coding for mainframes. The principles still apply, and could be very useful to this project (and, other projects). The basic idea, though, is that a different person, completely unrelated business-wise to ANY developer, tester, etc., is "god" when it comes to release. The RM says "We're releasing this version on mm/dd/yyyy." Then, he puts a timetable together for the release cycle.

There are checkpoints in the process. Once a particular checkpoint is crossed, ONLY the release manager can override the decision of what code is to be included in this release. Developers are not allowed to do ANYTHING to the code other than fixing bugs in code already included (i.e. bugs that crop up during testing).

Further, if someone claims that "we absolutely have to include this", the reason why must be ascertained. If it's because of a problem elsewhere, then instead of adding the new code, the old code is removed, and saved for the next release.

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 101
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/6/2008 7:38:54 PM   
Jimmer

 

Posts: 1968
Joined: 12/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

You can do it either way, since the comprehensive update will overwrite with all the updated files. If people have been applying multiple beta updates it might be safest to start with a clean install + update but it _shouldn't_ matter.

Regards,

- Erik

Let's say we do decide to clean-install with the next release.

Are there any folders and/or files which are safe to keep? I'm specifically thinking of saved game files, setup files for nations, that sort of thing.

Typically, when I scratch-install an application, I blow away the directory structure at the same time. But, for games with saved information, this isn't a good idea.

By the way, as a suggestion for future games: Have all of the saved games, etc. stuff be in the user's profile, rather than in the same folder as the game is installed. That way, the game CAN be purged completely, but the saved information still exists. You can also include options customizations in this.

_____________________________

At LAST! The greatest campaign board game of all time is finally available for the PC. Can my old heart stand the strain?

(in reply to Erik Rutins)
Post #: 102
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/6/2008 8:16:26 PM   
anarchyintheuk

 

Posts: 3921
Joined: 5/5/2004
From: Dallas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans6220

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tater

BTW...

To those who are ready to give up...what are you waiting for...get 'er done...and spare the rest of us the whining.


quote:

Tater here's an idea. Give me the $69.99 that I paid for the game or personally fix the game for me. Otherwise shut your trap. People have a right to complain about a purchased product that doesn't work.


He was talking about people who were ready to give up. Doesn't sound like you're ready to give up so the comment doesn't apply to you, does it?

quote:

Apparently the game works fine for you. So why are you even in this thread?


The thread simply asks if anyone else was ready to give up [on this game], from his comments it would appear he's not.

quote:

Nobody forced you to read any of this so you're either a troublemaker or an idiot looking for your moment in the spotlight. Either way your smartass comments aren't appreciated and bring very little to the discussion. So either grow up or shut up.


Ditto for your comments.

To answer the thread . . . no, I'm not ready to give up.


(in reply to tevans6220)
Post #: 103
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/7/2008 2:48:22 AM   
tevans6220

 

Posts: 223
Joined: 9/3/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: anarchyintheuk

quote:

ORIGINAL: tevans6220

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tater

BTW...

To those who are ready to give up...what are you waiting for...get 'er done...and spare the rest of us the whining.


quote:

Tater here's an idea. Give me the $69.99 that I paid for the game or personally fix the game for me. Otherwise shut your trap. People have a right to complain about a purchased product that doesn't work.


He was talking about people who were ready to give up. Doesn't sound like you're ready to give up so the comment doesn't apply to you, does it?

quote:

Apparently the game works fine for you. So why are you even in this thread?


The thread simply asks if anyone else was ready to give up [on this game], from his comments it would appear he's not.

quote:

Nobody forced you to read any of this so you're either a troublemaker or an idiot looking for your moment in the spotlight. Either way your smartass comments aren't appreciated and bring very little to the discussion. So either grow up or shut up.


Ditto for your comments.

To answer the thread . . . no, I'm not ready to give up.




True nobody forces anybody to read anything. The difference is that people were discussing. Tater brought absolutely nothing to the table to add to the discussion other than some smartass comment that he thought was funny. If he thinks the game is fine and that this is all just a bunch of whining then he really need not respond other than to say he's not giving up. Instead he told people to go away because he's tired of the whining. Who the hell is he to tell people to go away? Some people aren't happy with the state of the game and have a right to complain. I gave my money to Matrix not to you or to Tater. Which is worse the so called whining or those complaining about it?

For the record I haven't made any wisecracks or looked for a moment in the spotlight by saying something stupid. I stated my opinions on the game and shared those opinions with others. Sorry if you feel that's worthless but it's a lot better than telling people to go away because you don't care for their "whining". As I suggested to Tater either fix the game, give me back my $69.99 or keep your trap shut. I'm giving Matrix feedback on what I consider to be a bad purchase. And I don't give two hoots what you, Tater or anybody else thinks about that. Don't like it, tough.

(in reply to anarchyintheuk)
Post #: 104
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/7/2008 3:48:19 PM   
Grell

 

Posts: 1064
Joined: 4/1/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		I uninstalled the game and will never play it again because of the huge learning curve.

Regards,

Greg

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(in reply to borner)
Post #: 105
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/7/2008 6:26:22 PM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Guys

Everyone please lets calm down a little.  Marshall and I are now looking for someone to replace Richard and we are going to be picking up some extra beta testers.  Our plan is to go back to the tried and proven method of development and playtesting we used in the past.  This allows the whole team to work with us and improve the game as well as take customer feedback and apply it more better into the game.  We will be starting a new thread on this shortly.

   

< Message edited by David Heath -- 5/7/2008 6:47:31 PM >

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Post #: 106
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/8/2008 3:41:48 AM   
borner


Posts: 1485
Joined: 3/20/2005
From: Houston TX
Status: offline 		I agree that any conversations on this thread need to be civil. When I started this thread, it was to maybe blow off some steam, and see if anyone else out there felt as I did. Now I am just plain concened. If I read this right, ya'll are going back to playtesting a game that many of us have already paid for? Please say I am not understanding something right! Yes, long term I am sure that this new/old approach is a great idea, but to me that is the same as admitting Matrix released an inferior product. At this point I am not really sure what I would want, or even what to say, but I hope that you understand when I say I feel somewhat cheated by Matrix in general. I do wish you all the luck in the world on fixing this, if for no other reason that to get the quality of product I feel was fair to expect.

(in reply to David Heath)
Post #: 107
RE: anyone else about read to give up?????? - 5/8/2008 4:57:28 AM   
David Heath


Posts: 3274
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Staten Island NY
Status: offline 		Hi Borner

Every change of code needs to be tested as we try our best to make sure we do not make a new code problem.  Most of the time this is does not happen but the only way to try to catch it is to test every patch/code change.  I said this before but to be clear.  I fully understand that is game has more issues then any of us would have liked and I am not happy with this either.  Matrix has released many products and this is not how our other games are released.  Marshall, Erik and myself are here answering questions and working to get the game to a better state so it can be enjoy by everyone.  I am locking this thread so we can move forward.

David
  

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Post #: 108
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