RE: Only one scenario?

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Kharkov: Disaster on the Donets >> RE: Only one scenario?

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RE: Only one scenario? - 7/20/2008 9:21:41 AM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dale H

Erik, great point! To embellish the point you make here's one that would be similar:

http://www.multimanpublishing.com/theGamers/prodocscb.php

Notice the price tag.

I find it very interesting that this worn out thread keeps getting the grease while Mario's Beautiful Game!!! thread gets no acknowledgement. I am done having my say about SSG games because it has become clear my comments on this & the Run5 forum aren't welcome but I would hope somebody would thank Mario for his.

Obtw, as you can tell, I am really tired of the "only one scenario" whiners.

You make a good point. But I haven't seen you post in the Beautiful Game thread and instead stick your nose in here to whinge about whingers...very ironic....why would that be???

I find this thread informative and continue to read it because I want to see what people think of this game with one scenario. Having been bitten in the arse more than once with purchases from SSG, I'm reading this thread (and the Beautiful Game one...which I hope you post in soon) to see if I'm going to buy it.

Do yourself a favour and write positively about something you think positively about, rather than whinging about whingers and greasing the negative threads!

(in reply to Duck Doc)

Post #: 61

RE: Only one scenario? - 7/20/2008 6:31:29 PM

Duck Doc

Posts: 693
Joined: 6/9/2004
Status: offline

I own KP, BiN, BiI, BF & CaW. I bought TAO when it first came out - with only one scenario - years ago. I have never been burned by a SSG game. I have been more than satisfied with all the releases. I have played them countless hours. Some I like better than others & some I play a lot & some not at all. They are not perfect but they are the among the best available.

I am engaged in one BF PBEM Crusader match & a Road to Moscow BiI one too with another BF match in the wings as soon as I finish another game. When I am not playing PBEM I often sit down to a solo game against the AI. I am handicapped enough the AI ran me around the block for a longer period of time than I am willing to admit. I don't think wargaming gets any better imltho. SSG is improving all the time. This game engine has come a long way since TAO.

I am also a realist who knows that if I don't support my hobby & the developers who make the games then there is a strong likelihood they won't be making more. This is the way it works. Too much negativity can indeed kill the hobby. It has in the past. It wiped out a whole genre.

Erik announced they will be making a AtD add-on for the Kharkov engine. I never got AtD for reasons that are unclear & I am looking forward to that scenario as well. BF was released with the 4 stock scenarios & there have been at least 3 user-made PBEM scenarios released for the game. These new scenarios are great. Take a look at Stalingrad.

I was making the point that I think it is best to spend more time acknowledging those that are positive about the games & less on those who continually emphasize the negative. People complained about the presence of a solitary scenario with Kharkov when the release was announced & I am sure the developers got the message. To continue to harp about now it is pointless & destructive & to me it sounds like whining.

I really don't want to pick a fight here & I am not a spokesman for SSG. I think my experience as a purchaser qualifies me to express this opinion.

How about picking up Kharkov in spite of your objection just to support the hobby & the company? Why not? Play it for a while then let us know if only one scenario is that much of a big deal. I'll bet it won't be.

quote:

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd
You make a good point. But I haven't seen you post in the Beautiful Game thread and instead stick your nose in here to whinge about whingers...very ironic....why would that be???

I find this thread informative and continue to read it because I want to see what people think of this game with one scenario. Having been bitten in the arse more than once with purchases from SSG, I'm reading this thread (and the Beautiful Game one...which I hope you post in soon) to see if I'm going to buy it.

Do yourself a favour and write positively about something you think positively about, rather than whinging about whingers and greasing the negative threads!

< Message edited by Dale H -- 7/20/2008 6:34:49 PM >

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 62

RE: Only one scenario? - 7/20/2008 7:29:25 PM

JudgeDredd

Posts: 8573
Joined: 11/14/2003
From: Scotland
Status: offline

quote:

How about picking up Kharkov in spite of your objection just to support the hobby & the company? Why not? Play it for a while then let us know if only one scenario is that much of a big deal. I'll bet it won't be.

Because my hobby is wargaming, not SSG wargaming. There are a plethora of wargames out there and new ones every other month at times.

As far as I am concerned, SSG provide least "bang for buck" as Erik put it than an awful lot more wargame companies. Korsun Pocket was a big let down...very little to it. Carriers at War was worse. That sank in less than 12 hours play.

I don't doubt SSG put a lot of effort and research into their games. I'm sure they are of the highest quality.

What I am saying is, after having my hands burned previously, I'll watch these forums and see what occurs. If it seems that one battle is indeed quite a few hours of gameplay, then I will buy it...otherwise, I'll leave it to the die hard SSG fans.

People posting in this thread and loitering are watching to see what other people think of one scenario. What I was trying to say (and I didn't mean to suggest you were picking a fight) was perhaps your time would be better spent giving your views on the game and trying to convert the nay-sayers, rather than your views on people whinging about one aspect of the game.

I am open to conversion.

(in reply to Duck Doc)

Post #: 63

RE: Only one scenario? - 7/20/2008 7:55:13 PM

mariovalleemtl

Posts: 360
Joined: 8/9/2000
From: Montreal
Status: offline

I PBEM Korsum maybe 20+ games and it was very fun.

Those days, I play Carriers at War live with some friends over the Net. Very nice also. The Fog of War in this one is a real tril. I don't understand why many peoples did not like CAW ? It is very realistic and fun. Sure if you only try it for just a fews hours and if you don't take the time to learn all the rules you will not like it. The AI is quite good specialy if it play the Jap early in the war. But, like usual, play with a human is the best. But most of the gamers don't play with other dudes. That is the big problem. I play 1000 hours with the first CAW with myself.
Now I play multi-players and it's great.

Anyway I like those titles but I understand it is not the cup of tea of everyone

_____________________________

(in reply to JudgeDredd)

Post #: 64

RE: Only one scenario? - 7/20/2008 8:32:29 PM

TheHellPatrol

Posts: 1588
Joined: 7/3/2004
Status: offline

I've had it since release, here's my take so far:
Very polished game with many enhancements to gameplay and ease of play. Some lovely changes/additions to the rules and combo's of DB & BF rules that make sense and for me are a great step forward. Of course, this leaves BF in the dust as it now obsolete with it handful of scenarios.
Graphics: Ui and Map are better than ever and have continued to evolve. The counters on the other hand are as ugly as BF and just as hard to read with all the pixels and jumbled markings.
One Scenario: Well, i don't like only having one choice;the whole enchilada. I like smaller scenarios due to time/patience constraints. It does seem to be a very compelling battle and it IS fun "but"...you will only appreciate the other "variants" after becoming fully experienced with the first one you play etc... So, as a new player i only really have one choice...start at the beginning. If i don't finish/complete the 1st scenario i won't even realise/appreciate the variants...so that IMO is too linear.
If you don't find any interest in this battle and the EF theater no amount of variants will make any difference. If you appreciate SSG's series at what may be the beginning of a new era then hopefully, and i mean hopefully, this will evolve and continue to be supported and enhanced with many scenarios. Frankly, it would have been much wiser to wait and have ATD ready to go even it it cost even more money...but...times are tough and SSG has no problem reminding us of that. I just hope they didn't cut off their nose to spite their face

.
Finally, the manual is very well done and finally contains all the info you'll need even for the tutorials...bravo.

_____________________________

A man is rich in proportion to the number of things he can afford to let alone.
Henry David Thoreau

(in reply to mariovalleemtl)

Post #: 65

RE: Only one scenario? - 7/20/2008 10:05:52 PM

TheWombat_matrixforum

Posts: 469
Joined: 8/2/2003
Status: offline

I have most of the SSG stuff--don't have CaW, but I think all the rest--and I bought this one too. Mostly because I've always had a soft spot for SSG, since the C64 days, and seeing the staff (Roger, Ian, Steve, maybe?) at an Origins in the mid-1980s. I still have, somewhere, a letter one of 'em wrote me responding to a Warlords question, even.

I like this game, though I certainly hear the criticisms being leveled. I was disappointed in BF because the user-created stuff didn't really come through. I will say that, IF SSG makes Kharkov the baseline game engine for a while, it has a lot going for it, particulalry the AO stuff (which is very neat). And this battle is pretty interesting in and of itself.

But I do get a bit frustrated that the battles I want to play, are never on the game system I want to play! I have all sorts of nifty scenarios for BiI, but after playing Kharkov, damn it, I want 'em in this engine!

My only substantial criticism is, dudes, it's 2008. I've been running 1600x1200 for three years or more now. Many folks are running widescreen (as I do on my Macs). Unless you're using some ancient steam-powered PC, there's no reason you can't be pushing more than 1280 res in 2D. So why can't we get desktop resoution graphics? Or at the very least a couple more higher resolutions? And, in the same vein, it appears that if you alt-tab or minimize while the CPU is doing its turn, the game pauses? It takes an eternity to go through the computer's turn, and I'd love to tab out and do work or something, but it appears (I could be missing sometihng) that that's a no go. Seems odd.

I will say the AI is fun to play against, as it seems not only good in terms of VPs but seems to behave more realistically; in previous SSG games I've found the AI sometimes is a bit, um, gamey in its approach to winning. I like what it's doing here though.

And as for the single scenario, sure, I'd love a bunch of options, but as has been pointed out, I have a collection of board and computer games that focus on one battle, so I'm not livid about it. But I do understand, completely, how folks might not want to sink $50 into it.

(in reply to TheHellPatrol)

Post #: 66

RE: Only one scenario? - 7/20/2008 10:20:55 PM

Waffenamt

Posts: 120
Joined: 11/18/2006
From: Canada
Status: offline

Thanks for the comments on this one. So far, I've decided to wait until I see the first add-on or some user-created scenarios (not PBEM-only!!!!) before I open my virtual wallet. It looks good, but I'm not going to encourage the one scenario thing until I can see some evidence that it won't just fizzle out. COTA and PzC Kharkov will keep giving me my WW2 fix in the meantime.

Regards

(in reply to TheWombat_matrixforum)

Post #: 67

RE: Only one scenario? - 7/20/2008 10:38:43 PM

Kung Karl

Posts: 323
Joined: 7/1/2003
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TheWombat
And as for the single scenario, sure, I'd love a bunch of options, but as has been pointed out, I have a collection of board and computer games that focus on one battle, so I'm not livid about it. But I do understand, completely, how folks might not want to sink $50 into it.

I also understand why people complain but I love the game. They should release Acros the Dnepr as a free scenario fro this engine just to show their good will and dedication to win back the trust off gamers. They do make wonderful wargames!

(in reply to TheWombat_matrixforum)

Post #: 68