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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 2:14:33 PM

Przemcio231

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Well he wanted to play for Polish National Team some time ago but the idiots from PZPN decided that he was to weak... well he speaks good polish from what i herad from the interview he gave to polish television so i bet he freqently visits his family. Have you heard that some idiots from Poland and Germany tryed to set up regular battle near a border pass???

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 2:45:24 PM

Historiker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

Well he wanted to play for Polish National Team some time ago but the idiots from PZPN decided that he was to weak... well he speaks good polish from what i herad from the interview he gave to polish television so i bet he freqently visits his family. Have you heard that some idiots from Poland and Germany tryed to set up regular battle near a border pass???

yes

Shall they do so! If there are some idiots who agree with each other to beat the others - why shouldn't they, especially as this wasn't in a statium and not in a city where "neutral" goods were damanged?

I don't know how much polish he feels, but if you are right, this might be the reason why he NEVER sings the German national anthem! IMO, one shouldn't let a player be in the national team that doesn't sing the anthem...

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Post #: 122

RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 3:29:52 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Holland vs Italy this evening. First serious match of the Euro Cup (no offense intended to the small squads)

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Post #: 123

RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 3:33:30 PM

Dixie

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Holland vs Italy this evening. First serious match of the Euro Cup (no offense intended to the small squads)

It should be a good match. My heart says Holland, but my head says Italy.

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Post #: 124

RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 3:42:07 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Dixie, exactly my opinion. Holland has always been very generous: spectacular and offensive football. But er, kamikaze football: playing -- historically -- with only 3 defenders (3-4-3) is just er, kamikaze

But don't forget Italy usually starts very bad. And then they manage to get to the final and win (or lose) it.

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 3:45:23 PM

Przemcio231

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Well maybe this is the case with Podolski. As for those idiots beating each other remeber what would happen if some one would die as a result or that if they would be injured they would be treated from public funds

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Post #: 126

RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 3:58:57 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Przemcio231, nah, not a lot of hooligans left these days. Pity we are not on the 70s or 80s (the Golden Age of Hooliganism). Both Austria and Switzerland would be a replica of Hiroshima & Nagasaki circa 1945....

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 4:14:33 PM

Przemcio231

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??????? i was born in 1982 so i do not remeber any of those... what was going on then???

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Post #: 128

RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 4:28:32 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Well... on 1985, Heysel tragedy (final of the old European Champions League Juventus vs Liverpool)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

And in general a lot of violence every weekend, every match. Football (in fact, it has nothing to do with the sport itself) those days was apocalyptic

The current hooligans are nuns compared with those guys from the 70s and 80s

EDITED: in fact, that infamous tragedy was the turning point (enough is enough). It became the beginning of the end of "hooliganism". English teams could not play European competitions for the next 2 (or 5) years, I don't remember.

< Message edited by TulliusDetritus -- 6/9/2008 4:36:01 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 4:31:47 PM

Zond

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Przemcio231

??????? i was born in 1982 so i do not remeber any of those... what was going on then???

Massive pitch invasions, terrace brawls, attempts to conquer opponents Kop (among the other things)

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Post #: 130

RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 4:51:50 PM

Zond

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Well... on 1985, Heysel tragedy (final of the old European Champions League Juventus vs Liverpool)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

And in general a lot of violence every weekend, every match. Football (in fact, it has nothing to do with the sport itself) those days was apocalyptic

The current hooligans are nuns compared with those guys from the 70s and 80s

EDITED: in fact, that infamous tragedy was the turning point (enough is enough). It became the beginning of the end of "hooliganism". English teams could not play European competitions for the next 2 (or 5) years, I don't remember.

It was a 5 year ban for all english clubs.

Well Heysel was more like a combination of few factors which produced the final outcome.

Lousy organisation by police - Liverpool fans which where more numerous than the Italians were situated by the Italian sector with only a shabby fence to separate them.
Crappy stadium - collapse of the wall.
Incidents in the city before the kickoff which where started by Juventus fans and then the tide turned against them.

All these things resulted with tragedy. Liverpool (and other english club) where charged with 5 year ban. Not to mention that the laws against public disorder on stadiums became more stricker. So it was in a way the beggining of a "hooligan crackdown".

< Message edited by Zond -- 6/9/2008 5:04:34 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:04:47 PM

Przemcio231

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football_Hooliganism_in_Poland Look on this

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:05:26 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Yes, Zond, there were obviously morons on both sides.

Weird enough, both teams (Juventus & Liverpool) have always been my favourite teams in Calcio and Premier League (the ones I support that is: death to Milan A.C & Mancs & Co.)

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:06:34 PM

Tofke

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Well... on 1985, Heysel tragedy (final of the old European Champions League Juventus vs Liverpool)...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heysel_Stadium_disaster

And in general a lot of violence every weekend, every match. Football (in fact, it has nothing to do with the sport itself) those days was apocalyptic

The current hooligans are nuns compared with those guys from the 70s and 80s

EDITED: in fact, that infamous tragedy was the turning point (enough is enough). It became the beginning of the end of "hooliganism". English teams could not play European competitions for the next 2 (or 5) years, I don't remember.

i live in Belgium and I was in heysel in 85 (29 may) i was 13 years old with my father for his birthday, i ll never forget this day, before the match there was much (all ?)liverpool "reds" which had drunk all the day.
40 deads (34 italians), but it's not the first or last dramatic event in football
look at this link http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catastrophes_survenues_pendant_un_match_de_football

Tofke

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:12:12 PM

Zond

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There was also a Hillsborough stadium tragedy (in Sheffield) back in 1989 during the FA Cup semifinal between Nottingham Forrest and Liverpool when 89 people were crushed due to stadium being overcrowded - again a flaw in organisation. After this it was issued that all stadiums in England are "encouraged" to remove the fences and convert to all-seated.

So not all stadium disasters are connected with hooliganism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillsborough_Disaster

< Message edited by Zond -- 6/9/2008 5:15:12 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:17:36 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Tofke, but in Europe it is one of the last (luckily). Many of the others have nothing to do with "hooliganism": shabby stadiums collapse and therefore people die like flies.

Przemcio231, from your link: "In July 2007, UEFA banned Legia Warsaw from European competition for one season and also for one more season should they qualify for any European competition in the following five years". Well done

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:22:31 PM

TulliusDetritus

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You may not remember it but I do. Before Heysel and Sheffield disasters (especially Sheffield) there were fences. In theory to avoid the "traditional" and savage pitch invasion: "let's assassinate the referee terrorist boys!". But those fences were death traps. I will never forget the faces of the trapped people there

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:26:07 PM

Zond

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

Tofke, but in Europe it is one of the last (luckily). Many of the others have nothing to do with "hooliganism": shabby stadiums collapse and therefore people die like flies.

Przemcio231, from your link: "In July 2007, UEFA banned Legia Warsaw from European competition for one season and also for one more season should they qualify for any European competition in the following five years". Well done

Yeah, hooliganism in Poland is going very strong. They have a special style with large brawls (50 on 50, 100 on 100 and also larger) which are organised in forrests and remote areas so that police cannot track them. In a way this is almost unique to the hooligan scene of ex Eastern block (Poland, Ukraine, Russia - although the russians are doing it in towns, not remote areas

).

Bout' the Legia, yeah, it was against club from Lithuania last summer in Intertoto cup. Here's the video http://youtube.com/watch?v=82rOVjaYXwg&feature=related

< Message edited by Zond -- 6/9/2008 5:32:06 PM >

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:31:59 PM

Zond

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

You may not remember it but I do. Before Heysel and Sheffield disasters (especially Sheffield) there were fences. In theory to avoid the "traditional" and savage pitch invasion: "let's assassinate the referee terrorist boys!". But those fences were death traps. I will never forget the faces of the trapped people there

I remember the fences. Some where (on some stadiums) very high, virtuall they formed a cage. Definately a death trap!

Most stadiums in Croatia still have it.

About the pitch invasions, last night i watched highlights from 1984 match Manchester United vs Barcelona in Champions Cup. After the match, pitch invasion with Manchester United players being carried by the fans over the pitch. Since Mufc won 3:0 it was a reasonable thing to do.

Imagine all those things today. Gone with the wind.

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:32:42 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Holy sh**, if they fight for an irrelevant Intertoto, what wouldn't they "do" (a.k.a. massacre / kill / slaughter / assassinate / slain) if they were playing the Champions League Final?

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 5:58:34 PM

Przemcio231

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Well i think we will not find out veary soon as polish clubs suck... any way most of those fans were drunk... my friend went there and save 500Euros becouse of this fight he bet that Legia will win but since the match was canceled he got his money back. The fight in Wilno had another background my friend told me that the Luithanians offended Poland and thats why the riot started. Any way most of those taking part in those fights do not care about the match who will win or who loses the club colors are just a cover for that they just want to have a fight. Those fight are called Ustawka and are fought either barehanded or equipped (clubs, axes, kniefs and such) some of them took place in city's and changed into running battles with oposit fans and the police. I remeber hearing that some time ago in Cracow a fan of Cracovia was checking something under Wisla stadium and got recodnized and beeten severly, few days after that a team of Cracovia fans infiltrated a area where Wisla fans lived and broke into the house of one of the attackers then beaten them severly and chopped his hand of with an axe.... im not into football that much but i also remember that Polonia stadium was set on fire by Legia fans...

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 6:53:39 PM

bradfordkay

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"IMO, one shouldn't let a player be in the national team that doesn't sing the anthem... "

I'd say that there's probably a lot of players who we wish would never sing at all...

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 6:55:38 PM

Nixuebrig

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Just one question reading about the polish hooligan scene: What measures will be taken for the next Euro. Guess it won`t give a positive feedback if fans from around Europe will be beaten up. Or is the scene stricly restricted on those who want to fight each other?

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 8:46:32 PM

cantona2

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Very disappointing French performance

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 9:18:39 PM

Monter_Trismegistos

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I remember some history about quals to World Cup or Euro some time ago. We were playing in Stockholm against Sweden. And some supporters of Lechia Gdańsk and Pogoń Szczecin made a ustawka against each other. Swedish police was there - they were prepared for Polish aggressive supporters, but they had no plan what to do in case Poles start fighting against each other, so not intervened.

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RE: Very OT : Euro 2008 - 6/9/2008 10:18:50 PM

TulliusDetritus

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Hahahahaha!

Minute 31 and Holland 2 - 0 Italy