JTCS Tactical AI

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> John Tiller's Campaign Series >> JTCS Tactical AI

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JTCS Tactical AI - 9/30/2008 12:34:59 AM

umbro

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

I recently jumped back on to the CS bandwagon with JTCS and started refurbishing some old scenarios. While testing these I was surprised to find that the AI does not seem to have been touched at all since the old days. I was further surprised to find the number of players that regularly play against the AI. So to provide a better game for these folks in the future I was thinking that we could run a thread that would note sub-optimal AI play that could be easily fixed.

Some examples might be:

1. Never move leaders without being stacked with a combat unit.
2. Never leave leaders unstacked (if, say, their accompanying units is destroyed).
3. Never leave HQs in LOS.
4. Do not move HQs within the command range of their subordinate units unless the enemy gets LOS.
5. Never assault a hex that has undisrupted units in it.
6. Do not shoot at units that you cannot damage and cannot damage you if there are other targets in range.
7. Never stack more than 12SPs in a hex.

Some counter-examples (primarily ones that would be hard to fix)

1. Play more like Guderian would.
2. Use combined arms effectively.

umbro

< Message edited by umbro -- 9/30/2008 12:49:01 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: JTCS Tactical AI - 10/2/2008 9:00:34 PM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

Also the AI tends to exhaust all air missions in the early stages of the game - regardless of appropriate ground targets.

Case in point: I recently played a RS scenario in which the AI had 15 air missions. Sure enough; starting on turn #1, the AI sent 3-5 air missions my way each turn - hitting any unit (combat, non-combat) in clear terrain. By turn #5, AI air mission capability was exhausted... and the scenario had 21 turns. Rest of the game, I could operate with no fear of a "hit" from the sky.

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to umbro)

Post #: 2

RE: JTCS Tactical AI - 10/3/2008 9:43:21 AM

Warren

Posts: 19
Joined: 10/2/2007
From: Ohio, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: umbro

I recently jumped back on to the CS bandwagon with JTCS and started refurbishing some old scenarios. While testing these I was surprised to find that the AI does not seem to have been touched at all since the old days. I was further surprised to find the number of players that regularly play against the AI. So to provide a better game for these folks in the future I was thinking that we could run a thread that would note sub-optimal AI play that could be easily fixed.

Some examples might be:

1. Never move leaders without being stacked with a combat unit.
2. Never leave leaders unstacked (if, say, their accompanying units is destroyed).
3. Never leave HQs in LOS.
4. Do not move HQs within the command range of their subordinate units unless the enemy gets LOS.
5. Never assault a hex that has undisrupted units in it.
6. Do not shoot at units that you cannot damage and cannot damage you if there are other targets in range.
7. Never stack more than 12SPs in a hex.

Some counter-examples (primarily ones that would be hard to fix)

1. Play more like Guderian would.
2. Use combined arms effectively.

umbro

It seems at this point only the PBEM crowd is being catered to, or they are not capable of fixing it.

(in reply to umbro)

Post #: 3

RE: JTCS Tactical AI - 10/3/2008 11:41:52 AM

e_barkmann

Posts: 1307
Joined: 4/18/2000
From: Adelaide, Australia
Status: offline

quote:

It seems at this point only the PBEM crowd is being catered to,

and considering the PBEM crowd kept the game alive long after many others abandoned it, I think that's fair enough.

Any anyway, if you read the forums you would know that Jason has stated that 'Hal' will be looked at in the future.

cheers.

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(in reply to Warren)

Post #: 4

RE: JTCS Tactical AI - 10/3/2008 11:53:59 AM

kool_kat

Posts: 558
Joined: 7/7/2008
From: Clarksville, VA.
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Warren

It seems at this point only the PBEM crowd is being catered to, or they are not capable of fixing it.

CS has always been at its best with human vs. human play. I believe that this "mode" is the most challenging, exciting and nerve racking CS!

The original TalonSoft folks; over 10 years ago, were well aware of the limited AI capabilities. Quotes from the original EF Playtester Notes:

"The A/I will sometimes stack up in Objective and fortification hexes to the exclusion of maintaining a good line around it..."

"When the A/I is defending it will tend to counterattack Objective hexes you control."

"The A/I will frequently expend Smoke and Air Attacks early in a scenario..."

"It [A/I] has been known to move HQ's too far forward..."

So; in order to have a more satisfying CS experience, either PBeM (the best way IMHO) or play with the A/I as defender. The A/I tends to make fewer stupid mistakes as defender, but it is still not brilliant.

I tend to get rather bored playing the A/I, so the majority of my CS games are PBeM.

_____________________________

Regards, - Mike

"You have to learn the rules of the game. And then you have to play better than anyone else." - Albert Einstein

(in reply to Warren)

Post #: 5

RE: JTCS Tactical AI - 10/3/2008 8:42:32 PM

countblue

Posts: 160
Joined: 1/8/2008
From: Vienna,Austria
Status: offline

I do my own scenarios most of them long and on big maps.
I usually give the AI at minimum twice the quantity of troops I have and sometimes more.
This gives HAL a bit of a chance.
1.04 seems also to improve the overall performance of HAL slightly.

CB

(in reply to kool_kat)

Post #: 6

RE: JTCS Tactical AI - 10/3/2008 9:01:36 PM

umbro

Posts: 54
Joined: 10/11/2005
Status: offline

Mike:

Personally I never played against the AI as it was so flawed. I also have issues with PBEM as a venue. IMHO the only way to play CS is H2H online, but I am strange that way.

However, Jason did an informal poll on the site and ~50 responses showed that folks play against the AI 80% of the time, 20% PBEM and only 1% H2H online.

By generating this thread I was hoping to create an easy fix list that would make the AI less brain-dead without having to go to the expense of a complete reconstruction.

Jonathan

(in reply to countblue)

Post #: 7

RE: JTCS Tactical AI - 10/3/2008 9:10:05 PM

Jason Petho

Posts: 15009
Joined: 6/22/2004
From: Terrace, BC, Canada
Status: offline

HAL has a tendancy to try to recapture the first Victory Location taken regardless of the overall situation, especially in DCG play.

Jason Petho

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(in reply to umbro)

Post #: 8

RE: JTCS Tactical AI - 10/3/2008 9:31:17 PM

Borst50

Posts: 261
Joined: 4/1/2008
Status: offline

Really??? Hmm...I always found that HAL seemed to try to recapture the HIGHEST VP hex regardless of the tactical situation...not the first....interesting.

(in reply to Jason Petho)

Post #: 9