Charles22
Posts: 912
Joined: 5/17/2000
From: Dallas, Texas, USA
Status: offline
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Frank: You bring up apoint that interests me. Actually, what you attribute to myself, the Gerry mobile ability to use panzer fire brigades against the Russians late, I 've haven't made here, though I have made it before. Actually, strange as it may seem, I actually tend to swing more towards Mogami's production perspective, but unfortunately as far as such a notion goes, the Ruskies weren't always with a tank advantage, and certainly not with an 8-to-1 margin throughout (of course Ruskie tank advantage was greatlt nullified by the Luftwaffe being so dominant there for so long. I haven't seen official numbers, but it seems to me as though across the whole front, the Germans were only down in aircraft about 2-to-1 and as good as they were, that more than made them even). What he had been talking about, as far as I can see is total production numbers, but when you crank the numbers out it doesn't reflect that. It's all a bit confusing, because the myth states that this was the Russian advantage, but as I said, it, at certain times, was the Ruskie advantage in the field, because a good deal of the Gerry tanks were elsewhere (but probably not the majority [excepting perhaps during the Bulge]).
So, if one sets on pricing based on production numbers, as I see it, assuming nothing else about the game were to change, one would have to do it for total German tanks, and not make it more complicated, like restricting German tank numbers on the Eastern Front so Ruskies could get an 8-to-1. It's all a but extraordinary, because with the major attack so late in the war which I mentioned, which the Russians pulled off, you would have thought they would've concentrated more tanks there. Hmmm, the book never mentioned it, but perhaps they didn't use so many because they were afraid it would tip the Germans off. The book did mention that the Germans were surprised, though they of course were always expecting an attack through that avenue sooner or later.
In saying that I agree with Mogami to an extent, I think to make the game more historical, you would have to base it on some historical factor. The question os fairly simple: Should the game reflect a basically full-strength formation, or should it be forced to reflect the strategic situation? The thing I like about Mogami's approach is that it's based on what he believes is a solid value, be that errantly how he might've thought the Russians so badly outproduced the Germans total, or correctly on how much they were often facing a Germany fighting on other fronts, so that they didn't throw everything at the Russians. I don't like the idea of an arbitrary pricing system, generally, because it could change everytime somebody wants to complain about their favorite piece not 'valuewise' matching up with the rest. Actually I can think of two more ways, historically, that a unit could be priced. One if obvious enough (what did that nation pay for each tank?). The auchtung website has the expenses for the German tanks. The other, is my favorite, and that is pricing them by weight. For, naturally, the more a thing weighs, the more material and expense and this sort of system would work universally. If nothing else, it would sure be interesting to see how the game would go if every tank were priced like 10 pts. per ton, and later in the war, perhaps, the price per ton would go up. In such a scenario, you might be getting three PZ38ts for every T34, and maybe 2 T34s for every Tiger. In such a scenario, if I recall the weights correctly, the Panther would cost 600 pts, while the T34 would cost around 300, while some of them, like the PZI (that great anti-personnel mg mount) would cost a mere 50. Oh well, nice to dream it. It sure would shake things up a lot, and surely wouldn't be arbitrary.
(Added later for clarity): When I spoke of the Ludtwaffe only being down 2-to-1, I was referring to '44, not the entire war.
[This message has been edited by Charles22 (edited November 18, 2000).]
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[This message has been edited by Kharan (edited November 17, 2000).]
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