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RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 10:22:24 PM

drw61

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Is the Static HQ to attach an air group permanently to a HQ?

Thanks for the editor overveiw

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Segue'ing from aircraft to air groups, here's how that tab in the editor looks. Notice the following (from top to bottom):

- You can rename air groups at given dates. The Japs were fond of this.

- Any air group can be defined as the parent of a detachment of itself, which can be pre-defined. This functionality is similar to the land unit system, which I'll look at later.

- Any air groups can be withdrawn and returned later, like ships and land units.

- Air groups can be set to be resized at a given date (3 or 4 times, IIRC).

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Post #: 31

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 10:26:15 PM

GaryChildress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

ORIGINAL: 51st Highland Div

Im speechless..the editor is a mods dream come true on top of AE being developed and released...

I still miss a "different weapon options for one plane" possibility

What do you mean? I don't see anything missing in AE which was in the Vanilla WITP editor.

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Post #: 32

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 10:30:10 PM

Terminus

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Here's a diagram of the Clemson conversion paths. Dotted lines are conversions, solid lines ordinary upgrades:

EDIT: I see I forgot to dot one line...

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 33

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 10:30:30 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

ORIGINAL: 51st Highland Div

Im speechless..the editor is a mods dream come true on top of AE being developed and released...

I still miss a "different weapon options for one plane" possibility

What do you mean? I don't see anything missing in AE which was in the Vanilla WITP editor.

He wants more. They all do...

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Post #: 34

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 10:30:52 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: drw61

Is the Static HQ to attach an air group permanently to a HQ?

Correct.

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Post #: 35

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 10:38:20 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

And finally, the "ship class" tab, showing the Clemson-class DD. I chose this to demonstrate our "convert from/convert to" functionality.

Each group of class that you can convert from and to are grouped together in what we call a "bind". The list just below the ship shil graphics show the bind for the Clemsons, letting you convert to long-range escorts, fast transports, fast minelayers, fast minesweepers and seaplane tenders.

On the right, you can see the "Convert From Class" box, which signifies that class #2430 is a baseline for all the "Convert To" classes to be built from. The next one, #2431, is also a "Convert From" class, letting you still do the conversions even after the basic destroyer has been upgraded.

IMO the convert to/from boxes will be essential for any Alt_Naval based mod considering it's use of "shadow" ships which convert to combat types so I have a couple questions here as well.

1. How is a "bind" defined or how does it work in other words? Do I just pick whatever (previously unused) number I want and put it into the "Bind classes" value box then assign all ship classes which are part of that bind to that number? So let's say I want the Atlanta class cruisers to be part of a series of conversions. Let's say the number 123 isn't being used by any other binds. Can I therefore pick 123 and enter it into the "bind classes" box in the Atlanta cruiser screen to create a new bind?

2. How does convert to/from work? Let's say I want Atlanta type cruisers to convert into minelayers? I'm guessing that I check "convert from" for the base class. For the minelayer conversion I would check "convert to"? I assume simply checking the "convert to" box will make it a permanent conversion? So if I want to be able to convert the Atlanta class minelayer back into a cruiser I would have to check BOTH the "convert to" AND "convert from" boxes under the minelayer class screen? PLUS I would have to have BOTH "convert to" and "convert from" checked in the cruiser tab so that I can convert back to a cruiser. I hope that is clear.

3. What sets the conversion time for the "binds" or is there a setting? Obviously if the ship is only making a mild conversion, say a tanker into a cargo ship, I want a short conversion time but if the ship is going to be a radical conversion say from a tanker into a carrier, then I want a longer conversion time. Can this be set in the editor for the different binds? So for instance if I convert a tanker into a cargo ship maybe it only takes 60 days or something for the bind to occur. If I want it to convert into a carrier then it might take 180 days or something.

Thanks.

Answers:

1): Correct.

2): Correct.

3): You set the conversion time yourself. That's what the "Conversion Delay" field is for.

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Post #: 36

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 11:05:34 PM

GaryChildress

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Let's say I want a squadron of 12 planes to be able to split into 3 groups of 4 planes each. Must I define the "max splits" as "3" AND then check the "divide group" box for the airgroup to be able to split into 3 groups? In other words if I just define "max splits" but don't check the "divide group" box I take it the group will not have the option to divide in the game.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 37

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 11:10:49 PM

Terminus

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That's a good question, Gary. I'm not an air team member, but looking at the scenario in the editor, there doesn't seem to be anywhere that the "Max Splits" field is used for anything. TheElf or TimTom will probably have to field this one.

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Post #: 38

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 11:32:27 PM

Don Bowen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

....

3. What sets the conversion time for the "binds" or is there a setting? Obviously if the ship is only making a mild conversion, say a tanker into a cargo ship, I want a short conversion time but if the ship is going to be a radical conversion say from a tanker into a carrier, then I want a longer conversion time. Can this be set in the editor for the different binds? So for instance if I convert a tanker into a cargo ship maybe it only takes 60 days or something for the bind to occur. If I want it to convert into a carrier then it might take 180 days or something.

Thanks.

Answers:

...

3): You set the conversion time yourself. That's what the "Conversion Delay" field is for.

Actually it is a little more complex than that. The actual field is MINIMUM conversion delay. Conversion works like this:

1. Damage levels for the conversion are specified. This damage is applied and must be repaired using normal repair processes. This puts your conversion in competition with damaged ships for repair resources.

2. If a shipyard size is specified, the conversion must be done in a shipyard, and the shipyard must be of at least that size. This further complicates the competition for resources (the shipyard).

3. Conversion delay is the minimum amount of time the conversion will take. It may be more, less or that same as the time to repair all the damage. But until the conversion delay has expired you can not use the ship.

The best example of Conversion Delay would be the conversion of a freighter to a seaplane tender. It might take on a bunch of systems damage but the conversion to AV would show immediately. Conversion Delay is the fitting out time for the seaplane tender and is used to prevent instant availability of a converted AV (albeit damaged).

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Post #: 39

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 11:41:58 PM

Historiker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

ORIGINAL: 51st Highland Div

Im speechless..the editor is a mods dream come true on top of AE being developed and released...

I still miss a "different weapon options for one plane" possibility

What do you mean? I don't see anything missing in AE which was in the Vanilla WITP editor.

A G4M may carry either a Torpedo or a 800kg bomb or 3x250kg Bombs or 8x100kg bombs. Except giving a unit a specific weapon (which is lost once upgraded) other than the typ, there's no chance to have various weapons on a plane.
Moreover: A plane with External Fueltanks looses speed and manuever while range is increased. A bomb only makes them slower and even reduces the range. Extra guns fitted instead of bombs or fuel tanks will again change the planes performance.
So why not change the planes armement by deciding what it should carry?
Extra guns vs. bombers, no extra guns vs. fighters, bombs vs. ships...

Edit:
And I#m afraid it won't be possible to upgrade planes "in the field" to a newer version like IRL?

< Message edited by Historiker -- 3/19/2009 11:44:44 PM >

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Post #: 40

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/19/2009 11:45:21 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

....

3. What sets the conversion time for the "binds" or is there a setting? Obviously if the ship is only making a mild conversion, say a tanker into a cargo ship, I want a short conversion time but if the ship is going to be a radical conversion say from a tanker into a carrier, then I want a longer conversion time. Can this be set in the editor for the different binds? So for instance if I convert a tanker into a cargo ship maybe it only takes 60 days or something for the bind to occur. If I want it to convert into a carrier then it might take 180 days or something.

Thanks.

Answers:

...

3): You set the conversion time yourself. That's what the "Conversion Delay" field is for.

Actually it is a little more complex than that. The actual field is MINIMUM conversion delay. Conversion works like this:

1. Damage levels for the conversion are specified. This damage is applied and must be repaired using normal repair processes. This puts your conversion in competition with damaged ships for repair resources.

2. If a shipyard size is specified, the conversion must be done in a shipyard, and the shipyard must be of at least that size. This further complicates the competition for resources (the shipyard).

3. Conversion delay is the minimum amount of time the conversion will take. It may be more, less or that same as the time to repair all the damage. But until the conversion delay has expired you can not use the ship.

The best example of Conversion Delay would be the conversion of a freighter to a seaplane tender. It might take on a bunch of systems damage but the conversion to AV would show immediately. Conversion Delay is the fitting out time for the seaplane tender and is used to prevent instant availability of a converted AV (albeit damaged).

Well, I'd probably said something along those lines if I'd used my brain. Good catch, Don.

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Post #: 41

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 12:06:25 AM

Grotius

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This all looks amazing, T. Thanks for all the shots. A couple questions about the AI screen:

1. Does this screen specify a particular order in which the AI will do things? E.g., for ID #001, which you've highlighted, will the AI assault Vigan, San Fernando, Bayombong, etc. in that order?

2. The middle field is entitled "1. Assault Bases." If one clicked on the arrow to the right of "Assault Bases," what other options would one see? Air attack? Naval bombardment? Recon?

3. I don't understand the fields on the right side. What does the trigger base (Bataan) trigger? An assault on Lingayen?

Thanks!

quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

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Post #: 42

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 12:08:49 AM

GaryChildress

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen
Actually it is a little more complex than that. The actual field is MINIMUM conversion delay. Conversion works like this:

1. Damage levels for the conversion are specified. This damage is applied and must be repaired using normal repair processes. This puts your conversion in competition with damaged ships for repair resources.

2. If a shipyard size is specified, the conversion must be done in a shipyard, and the shipyard must be of at least that size. This further complicates the competition for resources (the shipyard).

3. Conversion delay is the minimum amount of time the conversion will take. It may be more, less or that same as the time to repair all the damage. But until the conversion delay has expired you can not use the ship.

The best example of Conversion Delay would be the conversion of a freighter to a seaplane tender. It might take on a bunch of systems damage but the conversion to AV would show immediately. Conversion Delay is the fitting out time for the seaplane tender and is used to prevent instant availability of a converted AV (albeit damaged).

I was under the impression that "Upgrade Damage" applied only to upgrades but not to conversions. Are you saying the same field applys to both upgrades and conversions? So for instance if the "Upgrade Damage" field for a particular ship is "25" then it will receive 25 damage BOTH if it upgrades AND if it converts? Otherwise I assume the "Upgrade Delay" field applys to upgrade time and "Conversion Delay" field applies to conversion times?

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 3/20/2009 12:13:25 AM >

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Post #: 43

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 12:14:43 AM

Dili

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Welcome to the good Terminus!

quote:

you see that we have added the ability to enter specific ranges for any aircraft, with or without drop tanks.

Great news!

quote:

Endurance

I think endurance should have been to simulate patrol time in air. Good for planes that have a slow cruising speed for patrol and a faster one to get on station.

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Post #: 44

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 12:19:31 AM

jcjordan

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On your first post when you talked about the MAD etc being greyed out until it's available, what happens in the case of when something upgrades to a later mark? Like AI Mk IV radar upgrading to Mk X, does it change on the a/c display screen on the date all across the board or is it also production involved like on troops/tanks being in the pool to convert?

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Post #: 45

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 12:23:40 AM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Grotius

This all looks amazing, T. Thanks for all the shots. A couple questions about the AI screen:

1. Does this screen specify a particular order in which the AI will do things? E.g., for ID #001, which you've highlighted, will the AI assault Vigan, San Fernando, Bayombong, etc. in that order?

2. The middle field is entitled "1. Assault Bases." If one clicked on the arrow to the right of "Assault Bases," what other options would one see? Air attack? Naval bombardment? Recon?

3. I don't understand the fields on the right side. What does the trigger base (Bataan) trigger? An assault on Lingayen?

Thanks!

As I said, the "AI Data" tab is an arcane art not fully understood by many other than Andy Mac, and he hasn't been the same since he got into it... I'll give it a go, though.

1): Not necessarily. In this case, 14th Army will start by landing according to the preset orders defined for task forces. Then it will try to move along the list of bases, but might sidestep one if it's holding out too long. This is in order to keep it moving.

2): One would see options for defining the assaulting units, units dedicated to air support, and defending units (if one is making an AI defence script).

3): Honestly, I can't remember. Others will have to field that one.

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Post #: 46

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 12:25:59 AM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

On your first post when you talked about the MAD etc being greyed out until it's available, what happens in the case of when something upgrades to a later mark? Like AI Mk IV radar upgrading to Mk X, does it change on the a/c display screen on the date all across the board or is it also production involved like on troops/tanks being in the pool to convert?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean?

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Post #: 47

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 1:28:29 AM

GaryChildress

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One last conversion/binding question.

Is it possible to have several different ship types convert into the same type of conversion? For instance Alt_Naval has several different auxiliaries convert into the same type of CVL. To put it simply, if I have an AV, AS, AR and APD which all convert to the same type of CVL is it simply a matter of creating a binding which includes all the ships and have several "convert from" (AV, AS, AR and APD) ships and only a single "convert to" (CVL) ship? Is there anything in the editor which would prevent this from working? If it won't work I can easily think of a workaround for it that should work but I'm just curious if the most straightforward approach will work.

Thanks again.

< Message edited by Gary Childress -- 3/20/2009 1:33:17 AM >

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Post #: 48

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 1:57:47 AM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

One last conversion/binding question.

Is it possible to have several different ship types convert into the same type of conversion? For instance Alt_Naval has several different auxiliaries convert into the same type of CVL. To put it simply, if I have an AV, AS, AR and APD which all convert to the same type of CVL is it simply a matter of creating a binding which includes all the ships and have several "convert from" (AV, AS, AR and APD) ships and only a single "convert to" (CVL) ship? Is there anything in the editor which would prevent this from working? If it won't work I can easily think of a workaround for it that should work but I'm just curious if the most straightforward approach will work.

Thanks again.

This is definitely doable. Nothing keeps you from reversing the usual one-class-converts-to-several setup. You'd have to provide the air groups seperately, of course.

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Post #: 49

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 2:07:01 AM

Historiker

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quote:

You'd have to provide the air groups seperately, of course.

Which can be Carrier trained, now... Great!

Still not perfect enough for me, but it seems it's getting close! Great Work!

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Post #: 50

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 2:12:39 AM

Don Bowen

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I was under the impression that "Upgrade Damage" applied only to upgrades but not to conversions. Are you saying the same field applys to both upgrades and conversions? So for instance if the "Upgrade Damage" field for a particular ship is "25" then it will receive 25 damage BOTH if it upgrades AND if it converts? Otherwise I assume the "Upgrade Delay" field applys to upgrade time and "Conversion Delay" field applies to conversion times?

There is only one set of "upgrade/conversion" fields. Would be nice to have two sets but frequently a given class with be the target of upgrade OR conversion, as opposed to both.

Basically, edit screen space and code limitations. We had to be careful to not have 18,000 parameters per class.

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RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 2:17:59 AM

jwilkerson

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Since I worked on the IJN Surface combatants - I spent a lot of time with the ship class screen. I would say it took a while to learn the ins and outs of "upgrade" versus "conversion" and when to use one versus the other. It took some trial and error on my part to get things even "semi-right" (assuming I've done so) or at least "the way I wanted them to be". So for those who really expect to do major work in the ship class screen - the "warning" is - don't expect to key everything in - in one night and get it all correct. Lay out yours plans - and try a few and look at the results in game - set the upgrade or conversion dates close together so you can see all the changes happen quickly. And be prepared to make adjustments if things don't come out the way you want. Learning the "rules" is one step. Making an OOB work the way you want it to - is a whole 'nother ball game.

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Post #: 52

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 2:24:44 AM

Terminus

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And a fun one, if you're a modder...

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RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 3:19:40 AM

jcjordan

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

quote:

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

On your first post when you talked about the MAD etc being greyed out until it's available, what happens in the case of when something upgrades to a later mark? Like AI Mk IV radar upgrading to Mk X, does it change on the a/c display screen on the date all across the board or is it also production involved like on troops/tanks being in the pool to convert?

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean?

OK look at it like this - say you've got MAD as an a/c device it'll show on the a/c display but greyed out until it's avail. Let's say MAD upgrades to MAD2 at a later date. On that date will I see MAD2 start showing on my a/c display or will it still stay MAD? I realized this question is a bit off of editor topic but more of an in game question.

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Post #: 54

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 9:56:05 AM

Terminus

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Good question. We have no aircraft electronic devices that upgrade to others, so I don't know.

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Post #: 55

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 12:47:20 PM

Historiker

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Good question. We have no aircraft electronic devices that upgrade to others, so I don't know.

Will the planes automatically be equipped with the new gear or do one has to upgrade away and back?
If automatically: Will it cost something - what?

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Post #: 56

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 12:55:03 PM

Terminus

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As I said previously, once the electronic device becomes available, it pops in automatically and for free.

If one wanted to make this process more difficult for the player, one could force him to actually build a device, expending resources to do so. That's a switch in the devices tab, though.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 3/20/2009 2:46:43 PM >

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Post #: 57

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 2:46:50 PM

Dili

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I don't remember who from the team said it but aircraft equipment upgrades if that set in editor. Now i don't know if that includes every and all devices. I just hope that aerial mines works the same way and there isn't a hardcode setting.

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Post #: 58

RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 2:48:46 PM

Terminus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

I don't remember who from the team said it but aircraft equipment upgrades if that set in editor. Now i don't know if that includes every and all devices. I just hope that aerial mines works the same way and there isn't a hardcode setting.

Exactly, if it is set in the editor. "Stock" AE has no upgrades set, but the sky's the limit for mods.

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RE: Admiral's Edition Editor Thread - 3/20/2009 5:14:26 PM

NormS3

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Fantastic! I now find myself realizing the extent of the torture that the GF will be putting me through to compensate for the time I will be devoting to AE.

Keep up the Great Work, and someone please notify my next of kin upon the release of AE!

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