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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe

 
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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 4/9/2009 8:05:34 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious




This scenario is another possibility- but what happens when the atom bomb becomes available in August? Presumably, it's going to be on the first B-29 to Berlin.


Yeah. That does kind of spoil the party. Three possible solutions:

1. The Germans hang tough. There were only three of the things available, and their effect was comparable to a really effective series of thousand bomber raids. Militarily, there's no overwhelming reason the Germans can't just ride it out. Of course, morally...

2. The Germans are able to pose a deterrent. Their own bomb, or Sarin. Note that the situation is somewhat different than with the Japanese, since lack of a really frightening retaliatory weapon system aside, the Japanese were out of range of any major Allied center of population. The Germans have London right across the Channel.

3. The Germans have developed a truly impenetrable air defense. Like, that Wasserfall SAM they could have developed instead of the V-2.


< Message edited by ColinWright -- 4/9/2009 8:06:02 PM >

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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 4/9/2009 8:33:11 PM   
golden delicious


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

3. The Germans have developed a truly impenetrable air defense. Like, that Wasserfall SAM they could have developed instead of the V-2.


I'm not sure the Wasserfall SAM would have been truly effective as of August 1945.

I suppose you could have a scenario of indefinite length. Periodic % chance that an atom bomb will make it to Berlin at which point the scenario ends in a draw. Prior to that, a high enough victory level will end the scenario in victory for either side.

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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 4/10/2009 3:11:36 AM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

3. The Germans have developed a truly impenetrable air defense. Like, that Wasserfall SAM they could have developed instead of the V-2.


I'm not sure the Wasserfall SAM would have been truly effective as of August 1945.


It's hardly definitive, but the implication of Speer's remarks on the subject is that the development work that went into the V-2 could have gone into the Wasserfall instead.

The V-2 was in service by the later part of 1944.


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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 4/10/2009 11:47:35 AM   
golden delicious


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ORIGINAL: ColinWright

It's hardly definitive, but the implication of Speer's remarks on the subject is that the development work that went into the V-2 could have gone into the Wasserfall instead.

The V-2 was in service by the later part of 1944.


Lessee. In September 1944 production of V2 rockets reached 900 for the month. It's reasonable to assume the Germans could have produced at least twice that number of Wasserfalls for the same effort. Certainly this would outmatch the rate at which the Allies could put bombers into service. I suppose it would be a question of how reliable the rockets were, and how they were deployed.

Hitting a bomber in flight is a tall order. How accurate were the anti-ship missiles? Bearing in mind that ships are large and slow.

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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 4/10/2009 5:22:31 PM   
ColinWright

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: golden delicious


quote:

ORIGINAL: ColinWright

It's hardly definitive, but the implication of Speer's remarks on the subject is that the development work that went into the V-2 could have gone into the Wasserfall instead.

The V-2 was in service by the later part of 1944.


Lessee. In September 1944 production of V2 rockets reached 900 for the month. It's reasonable to assume the Germans could have produced at least twice that number of Wasserfalls for the same effort. Certainly this would outmatch the rate at which the Allies could put bombers into service. I suppose it would be a question of how reliable the rockets were, and how they were deployed.

Hitting a bomber in flight is a tall order. How accurate were the anti-ship missiles? Bearing in mind that ships are large and slow.


I would think that they would have to be pretty accurate to make military sense. A Wasserfall was a big chunk of equipment.

Assuming some sort of tracking system -- however rudimentary -- hitting the target doesn't seem all that hard. A heavy bomber isn't twisting and turning. It's droning along in a straight line, doing 180 mph.

Anyway, when all else fails, find out. I went to actually read something.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wasserfall . Naturally, the proof would have been in the pudding, but this system sounds like something that could have rendered bombing sorties over the Reich suicidal by August 1945. The suggestion is that by this point, the system would have indeed had a primitive on-board tracking mechanism.


< Message edited by ColinWright -- 4/10/2009 5:24:59 PM >

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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 4/28/2009 7:52:35 PM   
Silvanski


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Status: offline 		This thread moved from looking for a map to discussion abt E47

Seems I better enter my thoughts as well aye...

This is a "hypothetical" scenario... discussions about what could or could not have happened can run on forever.

Piero put stuff in his original the way he thought things could have happened... I put stuff in it the way I think things could have happened...

Next version --release after TOAW 3.4 is operational-- will do away with the SSM's and the Axis cross-channel arty..
The SAM's stay
The Ruskis in due course will receive their MIG-15's as well as a twin-jet bomber
Several other things have been changed or will be changed ... There sure will be controversy about the German reinforcement scheme I have deviced and such, but what the heck... Feel free to mod the mod gents

< Message edited by Silvanski -- 4/28/2009 7:55:26 PM >

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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 4/29/2009 12:52:12 AM   
vahauser


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Status: offline 		Silvanski,

I'm with you.  I'm coming to the conclusion that the 'hypothetical' scenarios are the most interesting. 

P.S.  I'd be interested in seeing your Europa 1947 scenario scaled up to 25km/hex and 1-week turns.

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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 4/29/2009 6:01:32 AM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser
P.S.  I'd be interested in seeing your Europa 1947 scenario scaled up to 25km/hex and 1-week turns.

Shouldn't be too difficult, basically halving all turns indicated in reinforcements. events etc.. and variations of the map have been used in 25 km scenarios

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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 5/13/2009 10:50:25 AM   
Silvanski


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quote:

ORIGINAL: vahauser
P.S.  I'd be interested in seeing your Europa 1947 scenario scaled up to 25km/hex and 1-week turns.


Got a rescaled version . it makes for more fluid frontlines. Release planned after TOAW3.4 is out, wanna try to do things with the variable value supply points

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RE: Looking for a Map of WW2 Eastern Europe - 5/13/2009 1:47:56 PM   
vahauser


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Status: offline 		That's excellent news, Silvanski.  I'm looking forward to it.

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