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Hi there! - 5/27/2002 5:08:11 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		And welcome. :)

That's quite a bit of damage from a CL TF. Very well done!

You'll find that it's possible to get similar results if you attempt the Shortland run about once every 10 days or so. I would, however, use heavier ships in the future as the IJN will move BB's in to hit Lunga.

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Post #: 31
Re: Best TF mission, or the luckyest - 5/27/2002 5:08:21 PM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by HARD_SARGE
[B]. . . and a CL and DD take a hit each (funny place to hide ships ?, must of been inside the hangers) . . . [/B][/QUOTE]
Just the shore batteries (coastal defense (CD) units) which finally got some targets to play with. :)

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Post #: 32
Bad and the Good - 5/27/2002 9:46:07 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		[B]The Bad[/B]
While playing Japan in the Corel Sea scenario I sent three TF's to Gilli Gilli, Transport, Surface, and Carrier with the transport a day behind the other two. I had 'Do not retire' and 'react' set for both Surface and Carrier. I had also been bombing PM and have some success.

My naval search planes found a US TF 150 miles SE of Gilli Gilli. My TF reacted and closed to about 300 miles and the 2 CV’s launched a strike. I thought good, you’ve got better planes, longer range you can sink them without putting your ships in danger. The results implied I got four bomb hits on Yorktown and a torpedo and 2 bomb hits on Lexington. That’s what I wanted, now launch a second strike and finish them off. No such luck, no 2nd strike launched probably too far away. They did not launch any strikes.

OK, I’ll finish the job tomorrow. I made a mistake at this point. I should have turn react off! Bugles sounded, or should I say cries of Banzai where heard, when I found them next I was 90 miles away just to the east of Gilli Gilli. Both launched strikes and I hit both US carriers with 2 or 3 bombs but no torpedoes. They pounded me. One crippled the other limping badly. During the 2nd strike I hit nothing, but they crippled my other carrier but missed the crippled one. I thought I might just make it back to Rabul.

I set the surface TF to withdraw and sent them northwards and sent the crippled carriers to Rabul. I didn’t turn the transport around, expecting them to withdraw? During the night a sub sank one CV the other was moving at speed 4 and was sunk during the next day. To make matters worse the US TF set off after my transports, sank a couple of APs and damaged the everything else, they didn’t withdraw???????

At the end of I checked the damage on the two carriers. Both had system and flooding less than 20%. What a defeat, lost the whole war in one battle.

[B]The Good[/B]
Scenario 17, Japan again. Invading Buna this time with similar TF’s, except my carrier TF also includes the CVL Shoho. Found the US CV’s and closed to 150 miles both launched strikes, they missed not one hit on anything, sweating a bit though. Lucky or what?

I didn’t miss. Crippled Lexington, badly damaged Yorktown. On the second strikes they got one bomb hit on a CV, but I crippled Yorktown and further damaged Lexington. During the next turn I found a surface TF and a Transport TF. Sank 2 CAs, 3 APs and damaged others, but I didn’t find any US carriers, but one of my submarines did and sank the Lexington. Haven’t found out what happened to the Yorktown. I also took Lunga and Tulagi. This all happened in the first week.

For the past month I’ve had two carriers TFs one around Lunga and the other Gilli Gilli. I’ve only got to mid June and I’ve sunk or damaged lots of those dam yankeeees especially the bombardment TFs sent to Lunga. I’m about to take Gilli Gilli and with an overland march to PM in progress (2nd and 38th Div), I expect to take that as well.

I’ve now got 4 CVs and 2 CVLs operating in two TFs waiting for the US Carriers to come to close. (Sounds of a farmyard bird that clucks here)

Moral of these two stories is, Sink the carriers and rule, Lose your carriers and die. But you know that anyway.

Japan rules.

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 33
Re: Re: Best TF mission, or the luckyest - 5/28/2002 6:13:55 PM   
HARD_SARGE

 

Posts: 176
Joined: 5/27/2002
From: Cleveland, Ohio
Status: offline 		Hi Von Murrin
Thanks, been around for a while, just not posting

well the raid did what I had wanted, only didn't know the rain was going to shut everything down, or I wouldn't of needed it, during the confuseing, I took and build a base on Russell and then was able to slip in some raiders and took Muna, able to send in supplies with C-47's, some more eng with subs, then brought my 2 CV's up to parked them, nice target to wear down the Number of Zero's still in the war (LOL last attack, 21 Zeros and 15 Nells from Rabaul, shot down 21 Zeros and 14 Nells, the single Nell put a Trop into one of my DD's and blew it apart, before Flak finished it off)


Hi Rowlf

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Rowlf
[B]
Just the shore batteries (coastal defense (CD) units) which finally got some targets to play with. :) [/B][/QUOTE]

no you misread (or I mis typed) the CL and DD that got hit were IJN ships (thinking with in the port itself, not the Harbor)
my CL TF made it out of the Raid with out a dent, in fact on the way home, one raid couldn't find it, and the other came in, but missed, so all in all, RADM W.Smith is one lucky dude

my next run, with some CA's and more DD's, got 8 AP and around 5 of 15 AG's (?) then during the bombardment, the CD opened up and got some decent licks in, timeing or luck again, as the ships bringing the CD unit in must of been a day away from the CL raid :)

HARD_Sarge

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 34
Scratch Three Flattops! - 5/28/2002 7:39:43 PM   
Wilhammer

 

Posts: 449
Joined: 5/24/2002
From: Out in the Sticks of Rockingham County, North Caro
Status: offline 		Well, in my 6 or 7th play of Coral Sea, I had placed the Lexington and Yorktown into seprate TFs just south of the the group of islands and reefs off of Gili-Gili.

Just south of Gili-Gili. moving in fast, was a Cruiser/DD group tasked with charging in at night to attack transports.

The plan, usie the carrier task forces to provide air cover for the Bombardment group and naval attack capability at a point 7 hexes south of Gili-Gili.

BUT.

I forgot to set my CV TFs to "Do Not React To Enemy", and the IJN CVs came barreling down towards Gili-Gili, and my TFs shot up to just north of them!

It was rainy, so I remeber I spotted them, but they had not spotted me. I guess the Ami AI knew it, and it sent my worry factor WAY up.

But I found myself smiling afterwards, as my strikes put the Zuikaku to the bottom, the Shokaku heavily damaged, and the Shoho a worthless wreck.

The Japanes response was weak, and the Lex took 1 torp and 2 bomb hits, and limped home at 15 knots.

The rest of the IJN CVs were sunk over the next two days, one by a sub, the other by Dauntless.

The rainy conditions took out the other great fear, Bettys from Rabaul, so I scooted back to the area south of Milne Bay, and sweated as the LEx slowly left for Noumea.

I was stunned by this AI move.

And Oh so very pleased.

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 35
Hi Will :) - 5/28/2002 8:07:23 PM   
von Murrin


Posts: 1760
Joined: 11/13/2001
From: That from which there is no escape.
Status: offline 		Sometimes our worst mistakes become our best plans. I articulated a story of one of my own fortuitous mistakes on a different thread not more than a few hours ago. Your's is much better. :)

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I give approximately two fifths of a !#$% at any given time!

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 36
The AI has its moments - 5/28/2002 11:49:44 PM   
brisd


Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		I am still playing my initial campaign game (1 turn days take FOREVER) and doing very well overall as the Japanese. I have made my share of mistakes but the heaviest units I have lost are 1 CA and CVL vs while the Lex, York, Hornet, Enterprise, North Carolina and many CA's lie at the bottom of the sea. I had damaged the Wasp severely but the Sara is still operational and she surprised me a few turns ago. Appeared magically (STEALTH TECH in '42?) three hexes south of Guadalcanal, my literally dozens of naval search planes did not spot that TF in clear weather on the journey from Noumea to there. Anyhow I was still building up Lunga and had no fighters or tactical aircraft there so the US had target practice on my nice fast transport TF there and I lost three APD's and one severely damaged, which HURT! Those babes are worth their weight in gold.

Anyhow by the time I got air assets to reply and my fast CV's after them, the Sara and friends safely fled back to Noumea. I did get one sub attack on a DD but that was it. Next time they try that I will be waiting. :D

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 37
- 5/29/2002 12:40:49 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		8/12/42
By this point in the long campaign I had accomplished my early objectives. Bolster the defences of PM, Noumea and Lanville(sp?) build up a concentration of AP's supply and ground forces for a push into the Solomons.

For the operation I had amassed 6 carriers (Lexington, Saratoga, Enterprise, Yorktown, Hornet and Wasp) with enough escorts for two task forces of 25 ships. A replenishment TF, a surface warfare TF and the Invasion group (carrying the 1st marine division and support elements).

For the past several days B-17's from PM have been pounding Rabaul to paste in order to control the land based air threat but have taken massive casualties in the process. I can't keep this up for long so I hope it yields dividends.

I stationed my CV's to the SE to cover the invasion force and sent the SW and Invasion fleet to the beaches. The marines waded ashore.

8/13/42
From extreme range (Kates using bombs, yay!) a strong airstrike hits the invasion force. Several AP's and escorts are damaged - a few heavily. Enemy carriers were in the area and are detected to the NE of the Solomons. I dispatch my carriers to intercept. Marines continue to land men and material under bombardment from the defenders.

8/14/42
USN Carriers launch airstrikes against the IJN TF's. The first strike goes against the Zuikaku, Hiryu and Rhiuho. Zuikaku is hit hard and is burning badly as is Rhiuho. Hiryu has taken moderate damage.

A second strike hits the other TF containing Kaga and Soryu. Kaga is hit badly.

Then the signal comes in - enemy planes approaching TF 201 - here we go! Enterprise and Wasp are hit hard. Wasp's CAG is diverted to ships across the fleet. She is burning badly, listing hard right and likely will not make it home.

Enterprise is burning but stands tall and is capable of maintaining flight operations but will need repairs soon.

A second round of strikes hits Zuikaku and Kaga hard. Fuel and ammo explosions are reported on both ships. Rhiuho is hit again as us Hiryu. Soryu continues a blessed existence and is hit only lightly.

Marine's and supplies continue to come ashore. They are ordered to make a shock attack at dusk.

8/15/42
I decide to move my carriers NW to pursue the enemy carriers. I still have 5 operational and feel as though that is enough to deal with Soryu and any LBA that should show.

Strikes go out and heavily hit Hiryu and Rhiuho. Zuikaku is no where to be seen. Kaga is also hit badly again - a second follow up strike couldn't find her.

Soryu was nowhere to be found, she must have left her damaged friends and fled at high speed.

Inbound strikes come from Lunga.... enemy CAG's must have transfered there during yesterday's fighting. Yorktown has a torpedo put into her but she shakes it off.

Marine's launch their shock attack and overrun the enemy CAGs sitting on the tarmac!!!!!!

Wasp manages to get to Lunga and docks there with 82 floatation and 92 system damage. The port is at level two and the Seabees are tasked with getting the port in a state to administer emergency repairs to Wasp so she can eventually get back to Pearl (she ends up sitting at Lunga for 2 months).

Enterprise's CAG is relocated to Lunga and I send her back to Pearl. The rest of the fleet returns to Noumea to lick minor wounds. I watch TV for an hour to let my pulse return to healthy levels.

This was one hell of a great fight! And one hell of a great game!

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 38
an epic battle! - 5/29/2002 3:51:10 AM   
brisd


Posts: 614
Joined: 5/20/2000
From: San Diego, CA
Status: offline 		Wow, that is the largest carrier engagement I've heard reported so far in this game and you wiped them slick. Congrats! :)

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 39
I'm sweating - 5/29/2002 4:01:41 AM   
IChristie

 

Posts: 673
Joined: 3/26/2002
From: Ottawa, Canada
Status: offline 		Just reading about it!

Wish you could post a movie replay of it

_____________________________

Iain Christie
-----------------
"If patience is a virtue then persistence is it's part.
It's better to light a candle than stand and curse the dark"

- James Keelaghan

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 40
- 5/29/2002 6:07:36 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Enterprise's CAG is relocated to Lunga and I send her back to Pearl[/QUOTE]
I understood that the CAG's automatically went with the carrier back to Pearl. You would then get the CAG's back when the carrier returns.

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Post #: 41
- 5/29/2002 6:44:23 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Rowlf: Before I rotate a carrier back to Pearl I manually transfer the CAG to a base. They can continue to hound the enemy and build experience and will be that much more deadly when their parent CV returns.

Enterprise just returned to theater and I returned her air crews that were relieved to be off the mosquito infested island I had them assigned to! ;)

In that time they have joined with Wasp's CAG and other LBA and smothered IJN shipping in and around Shortland Island. The port is littered with the wreckage of ships of all types and sizes. They even took part in the possible sinking of Akagi and Shokaku (they hit them hard enough to sink but no confirmation yet) when they lunged down the length of the Slot.

note: I actually used this tactic in what was I think another G. Grigsby game: North Atlantic '85. The single US carrier at the begining of that game would get whomped by Tu-22m Backfires from distance so I would offload the CAG to Scapa Flow and let them do their dirty work until reinforcements arrived.

IChristie/Brisd: Thanks for the praise! I had been trying to get into a fight with the IJN carrier force for a while and we circled each other for a month like two cautious boxers. But when the blows came: WOW! I'm still coming down from the high of that fight!

IChristie: I have all or most of my saved games for the campaign if you're interested in taking a look email me at [email]cairnsxx@yahoo.com[/email] and I'll send it over to ya. I'm not sure how to get a movie replay, I'd be interested in watching that again myself!

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 42
Oh yeah.... - 5/29/2002 6:56:34 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		I forgot to thank everyone that wrote exceptional AAR's that helped me form some strategies that helped me out a ton.

Mogami was especially a help. After reading how he husbanded his forces and supply I took careful notes! Not until I had built up PM, Noumea and Luganville did I even think of launching any sort of offensive. I barely reacted to thrusts the enemy made at Lunga, Tulagi and Gili Gili. I would only sending in my carriers to snipe if I knew the enemy carrier force was elsewhere and never above the invisible line between Gili Gili and Lunga.

Kid, Crocky, Rob Roberson and IChristie's AAR's were also a tremendous help - and also got me really worked up for the game I might add!

Well off to play a few turns!

Joe

(in reply to von Murrin)
Post #: 43
- 5/29/2002 8:24:36 AM   
Supervisor

 

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by The Gnome
[B]Rowlf: Before I rotate a carrier back to Pearl I manually transfer the CAG to a base. They can continue to hound the enemy and build experience and will be that much more deadly when their parent CV returns.

Enterprise just returned to theater and I returned her air crews that were relieved to be off the mosquito infested island I had them assigned to! ;)

In that time they have joined with Wasp's CAG and other LBA and smothered IJN shipping in and around Shortland Island. The port is littered with the wreckage of ships of all types and sizes. They even took part in the possible sinking of Akagi and Shokaku (they hit them hard enough to sink but no confirmation yet) when they lunged down the length of the Slot.[/B][/QUOTE]
Thanks for the info. I had gotten the idea that they left with the carrier from the following rule (Withdrawing and Disbanding Air Units):

"When carriers are sent back to Pearl Harbor or Japan, their aircraft will be placed in the replacement pool and will be available as replacements. The pilots will remain with the air groups on the carriers. When carriers are recommitted to the South Pacific after they have had their aircraft placed in the replacement pool, they will attempt to refill their air groups from the replacement pool." (Sect 11.19, page 87)

I can see now that it doesn't specifically relate to AG's which had been moved off the carrier at the time when it was sent back.

Now, that brings up an interesting question: When a carrier is sent back to Pearl Harbor/Japan, they might not be released directly back to theatre (or at all). In fact, they might end up being used elsewhere, if needed (logically). Therefore, the central command couldn't guarantee that they would be sending the carrier back, right? So, wouldn't they require that the AG's remain with the carrier? A carrier wouldn't be much good to anyone else without it's AG's. And, historically, the AG's were assigned to specific carriers and didn't move around a lot. Pilots rotated in and out, but AG's remained with their home carrier.

Just a thought.

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Post #: 44
- 5/29/2002 9:01:13 AM   
The Gnome


Posts: 1233
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: Philadelphia, PA
Status: offline 		Hehe, good point but I'm keeping 'em until they demand a refund! ;)

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Post #: 45
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