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Aircraft AI problem - 5/7/2009 2:29:27 AM   
makobyte

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/21/2009
Status: offline 		Ok, I order a attack on a ship by aircraft.
The aircraft weapons have a range of 50+ miles.
The ship has air defense of 35 miles.
The aircraft launches the weapons...
the proceeds to fly past them to the ship...

Needless to say my aircraft get shot down before their weapons hit the ship.
What I want is for my aircraft to behave with some common sense.

What should happen is:
The aircraft launches the weapons...
then loiters outside of the ship air defense range until battle damage assessment indicates that the missiles hit and the aircraft can rtb or the missiles were shot down and the aircraft can line up for a second shot.

Am I doing something wrong or is this a programming ai issue?
Post #: 1
RE: Aircraft AI problem - 5/7/2009 3:49:09 AM   
VictorInThePacific

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 10/30/2008
Status: offline 		What you describe is the way it works.

If your airplane has any weapons left and an attack order, it will attack until it dies.

For other examples of this, check out my "No man's land" AAR, esp. 1 h 48 min, 2 h 25 min, 10 h 40 min.

Specifically:

If your attack aircraft has AS missiles and either guns or AA missiles and it is ordered to attack a ground base which has planes flying patrol in the base formation, then your plane will (most likely) first launch its AS missiles and then continue its attack against the patrolling planes (part of the base).

I expect that in the situation you are describing, your aircraft still had bombs or cannon, and was continuing its attack run.

Unfortunately you will have to manually order the airplane to stop after it launches its stand-off weapons, because the computer will not reliably do this for you.

On the other hand, as long as your AS missiles are still in flight, it may be fairly safe to approach the ship at that time because the SAMs may be fully engaged against the AS missiles.

I deliberately use this principle, for example, in my thread "Air attack on US SAG" eg. post 56 "By the numbers". Other people have discussed it as well.


(in reply to makobyte)
Post #: 2
RE: Aircraft AI problem - 5/7/2009 4:09:00 AM   
makobyte

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/21/2009
Status: offline 		Actually the result was my aircraft got shot down since they were moving much faster than the weapons they released.
Also, I purposely withheld some standoff weaponry so that I could re-engage if the ship was able to survive the weapons I sent.
I was rather unhappy about that fact that after release my aircraft just flew into the air defense range and died taking the precious weapons with them.
Another question that needs to be checked (I have not checked it yet) and that is SARH ASM's; a SARH or guided ASM needs to be guided by the aircraft into the target. Usually (not always) this is done by flying behind the weapon and illuminating the target with CWI. This suicidal action performed by pilots flying past their guided weapons will create a situation where the aircraft will cease illuminating the target prior to the weapon impact which in most cases would cause the weapon to enter a dumb state and destruct. Some SARH weapons also have a backup of either a Infrared seeker or inertial guidance to the last known target location.

(in reply to VictorInThePacific)
Post #: 3
RE: Aircraft AI problem - 5/7/2009 4:35:53 AM   
VictorInThePacific

 

Posts: 169
Joined: 10/30/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: makobyte

Actually the result was my aircraft got shot down since they were moving much faster than the weapons they released.


For example, a high-performance F/A plane using subsonic weapons.

quote:

Also, I purposely withheld some standoff weaponry so that I could re-engage if the ship was able to survive the weapons I sent.
I was rather unhappy about that fact that after release my aircraft just flew into the air defense range and died taking the precious weapons with them.


Well, I didn't design the game, but there could be a number of different attack runs you might want to implement. For example, launch a whole swack of ASMs, and while the SAMs from the ships in the outer ring are busy with those, you zoom in and whale on the high-value targets. How should the computer know what attack plan you are using? So it assumes, if at the first possible attack point, you have reserved some weapons, you want to close until you see the whites of their eyes before shooting. Works ... sometimes.

Personally, I prefer to control my units manually in the vicinity of the enemy. (more shameless self-promotion) : See, for example, my AAR "Thanh Hoa Bridge", post 1, "difficulties" 1.

2 more things occur to me:

1) In certain (all ?) situations, if your unit has reached the first possible point where it can shoot, if you refuse the shot entirely, the unit will try to head back home or will stop moving. May apply only to air intercepts.

2) In certain situations, if your airplane is about to enter enemy SAM range, you will be warned. Not always; I have lost planes to ships I never even saw.


< Message edited by VictorInThePacific -- 5/7/2009 9:01:03 AM >

(in reply to makobyte)
Post #: 4
RE: Aircraft AI problem - 5/7/2009 1:16:51 PM   
CV32


Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline 		Simple answer. Micro management when you are in contact with the enemy.

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to VictorInThePacific)
Post #: 5
RE: Aircraft AI problem - 5/7/2009 3:21:23 PM   
makobyte

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 4/21/2009
Status: offline 		This looks to be the answer...

(in reply to CV32)
Post #: 6
RE: Aircraft AI problem - 5/8/2009 5:01:05 AM   
NefariousKoel


Posts: 2930
Joined: 7/23/2002
From: Murderous Missouri Scum
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: makobyte

This looks to be the answer...


It's not as bad as you may think. Just select the group after (or preferably just before you know they're in launch range) and give them a Loiter speed order after the initial attack. Sit back & watch the fireworks during BDA.

Although, as mentioned, if you have some shorter ranged weapons that you really want to use.. it helps following behind the units you just launched since they're good air defense decoys. Use that with care, though, the SAM fire like machineguns quite often. :P

_____________________________


(in reply to makobyte)
Post #: 7
Harpoon Classic scenarios - 5/8/2009 5:15:07 AM   
hermanhum


Posts: 2209
Joined: 9/21/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: NefariousKoel

Although, as mentioned, if you have some shorter ranged weapons that you really want to use.. it helps following behind the units you just launched since they're good air defense decoys.

Be careful with this tactic. Sometimes, if you follow your weapons too closely, the AI detects your planes and engages them before it detects the weapons!

_____________________________


(in reply to NefariousKoel)
Post #: 8
RE: Harpoon Classic scenarios - 5/8/2009 12:11:09 PM   
CV32


Posts: 1046
Joined: 5/15/2006
From: The Rock, Canada
Status: offline 		As NefariousKoel intimates, I think you'll have more success (both in beating the enemy and in learning how to play HCE) by micro managing your assets once they are in contact with the enemy.

Harpoon Classic has never been about sending units off to battle and then sitting back and watching the fireworks, and I, for one, would never want to see that change.

_____________________________

Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner

(in reply to hermanhum)
Post #: 9
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