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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 6:43:30 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		I think there's somewhere in the vicinity of 50 Nates in the pool.  I didn't see 100 or more of anything in the pool.  Very different. 

Good to know about Jakes.  I haven't looked that closely.

One thing to do right away.  The Kate factory is in Hiroshima and is 0(0).

Email any time.  I love the banter.

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 6:46:35 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Yeah, I think we'll have to make Nates for awhile while the Oscar numbers build up.  Eventually, I suspect we can stop and keep replacing Nates with Oscars in the frontline while using the Nates as you describe above.

Have you looked at the differences between Nates and Oscars yet?  I haven't.

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Post #: 62
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 6:51:58 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I am also looking around for the good amphibious assets, not just the APs of course, but also the LSD's like Akitsu Maru (I wondered what that ship would end up as), and a few other craft the IJN now gets.

Okay, some Hints.

THE most important unit in the game is Naval Support. You won’t have a lot; in fact, I sincerely hope you won’t have enough. These are your “true” Naval base units.

Transport, load/unload, etc .. two things: capacity of the ship itself (troops vs cargo), and its “amphib” rating. Jap xAK can do the troop-cargo conversion easily, Allied xAK can’t do it at all. All Jap xAK/xAP get a “magic amphib multiplier” till 3/42. Then it times out, but Japan still retains a bit of a push over Allied merchies.

To put it in perspective, you might rate amphib capability (the ability to load/unload/assault at dot and small hexes) as:

Everybody’s real AK/AP = 15
All Japan xAK/xAP till 3/42 = 12
Japan xAK/xAP after 3/42 = 5
All Allied xAK/xAP = 2.5

So the absolute fastest unload schedules (with everything perfect) means it will take an Allied xAK 6 times longer to break bulk as an AK: others accordingly. But that is with everything perfect; there are some “down” modifiers that make it worse.

There is an “up” modifier. AK/AP types (and Japan till 3/42) will contribute a % of their integral LC (phib) capability to assist merchie pukes to unload. Think of it as a kind of “on board” Naval Support assist.

So the Hint is, merchies plod from base to base. If you hit a ‘dot’ or port-1 base it had better be with phibs, and if it will become a significant base, you better have a poopload of NavSup on board: this will accelerate future load/unload values and allow for merchie pukes to eventually say ‘hi’ without sitting in port for a month.

More hints coming. Ciao. John

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Post #: 63
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:01:49 PM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Q-Ball, I don't know the answer to that question.  All I've done so far is to gather data.  I haven't "pushed a counter" yet.

I'm working on the oil/resource/fuel(!) surpluses and deficits as we speak.  That'll be relatively easy.  The hard part will be determining how much of the merchant fleet will be needed to move it to where it's needed.  My guess is that most in not all will be needed for that.  That'll slow down expansion.  "Well, we can't do that invasion of Baker Island because all we have available to transport the assault troops are 3 APDs."



Use WitpStaff it calculates all the deficits, surpluses for you and even tells you where you have wastage.

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Post #: 64
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:22:50 PM   
JWE

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
I would also be curious what everyone's opinion is on "CONVERT" or "DON'T CONVERT" with various options. I've only visited AE briefly, but the Minekaze DD to APD, for example, looks to me like a worthwhile conversion; you don't give up much speed, and you do take off the torps, but you pick up cargo capacity and AA guns.

Ok, Hint #2; upgrade vs conversion.

‘Conversion’ is an option that allows specific ship types to ‘convert’ to other variants of that specific ship type that were actually performed during the war period. It is not the same as ‘upgrade’ and will have consequences of its own.

If you never ‘convert’, the Japan fleet will evolve (through ‘upgrades’), as it did. ‘Conversion’ is an option to restructure the fleet, a bit, in accord with play style. It helps in some instances, but hurts in others.

Fx, certain DDs eventually ‘upgrade’ to Escorts, with significantly enhanced ASW suites. These DDs may ‘convert’ to APDs, but cannot go back. The APD version has a totally different ‘upgrade’ path than the DD version. So it’s a real, live, honest to goodness, what kind of player are you, and how big is your winkie thing.

Just ‘cause something is available don’t mean you gotta do it. Takes some real planning and forethought. Also means game possibilities expand to where it will be years before you exhaust all the different variants.

Yes, Sir, I played a large part in developing this, and perhaps I really am, truly Evil, but I know where the bodies are buried.

Ciao. John


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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:29:01 PM   
USSAmerica


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I think there's somewhere in the vicinity of 50 Nates in the pool.  I didn't see 100 or more of anything in the pool.  Very different. 

Good to know about Jakes.  I haven't looked that closely.

One thing to do right away.  The Kate factory is in Hiroshima and is 0(0).

Email any time.  I love the banter.


Mike, if that is the only Kate factory, it's probably a DB error that will need to be fixed. Post it in the Air sticky thread.

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Post #: 66
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:33:18 PM   
sven6345789

 

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Status: offline 		differences between Nate and Oscar
Nate is a puny plane, oscar has greater maneuver at a higher altitude, though it drops above 15000 feet. Range is greater with the oscar, so another plus. weapons are mediocre (2 7,7mm guns in nate and oscar a, oscar b has 1 7,7 + 1 12 mm gun, so it is a little better)
nate now has drop tanks, giving it a little more range

generally, the max. reserve of planes is the A2M2, with about 50. Nate 40, oscars all types (a,b,c) around 10 each. guess you can be happy if you can fill the airgroups you have, not many reserves to mess around with.


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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:34:46 PM   
sven6345789

 

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Status: offline 		no it isn't, Kate was out of production in 12/41. they had to take it back into production because the jill was delayed. produced about 50-70 Kates during 1942.

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Post #: 68
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:36:53 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Mike, I never saw it and questioned it.  That's where I found it really existed.  By my count there are 91 different types of airframes  and a total of 96 factories.  Only 5 types have 2 factories, unless there are more 0(0) factories out there.  Those factories don't show up in the industries page.   I'll just have to check each base.

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Post #: 69
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:38:28 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		Wow, didn't know that about the Kates.  How did they ever survive with only 50-70 Kates produced in a year?

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:43:34 PM   
sven6345789

 

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Status: offline 		they lost 4 carriers at midway! didn't need that many

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Post #: 71
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 7:52:52 PM   
Q-Ball


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Status: offline 		It gets pretty complicated on the A/C production, which I am starting to unwrap. A good example is the choice between SALLY and HELEN production.

In WITP, these models are pretty close in capability; it was mostly a personal choice, with Helen being slightly better. Most players seemed to build more HELEN.

In AE, at first glance the choice seems very clear: SALLY. Why?

First, you don't even get a Helen until 4/42, so the choice initially is made for you. Then, you can build the HELEN Ia.

The SALLYIIa, which is available 12/41, is faster (302 to 297), more manueverable (20 to 15), has one hex more range, and the same payload as the HELENIa. only difference is Helen has a bit more guns.

The HELEN uses the Ha-34 engine; you start with production of only 10 of this engine. It is also a "Dead-End"; the Helen is the only plane that uses the Ha-34.

The SALLYIIa, on the other hand, uses the Ha-32 engine; you start with a larger pool of this engine, and more in production. Even better, this engine is also used on the G4M1; so anything you don't use on the Sally can be used on the Betty, and vice versa. You get more flexibility.

As I mentioned before, the Jake now is clearly the superior FP to the Alf.

I'm sure there will be more comparisons and changes vs. WITP, but that's the first one I noticed.

Finally, the other thing I noticed in the stats is the the B5M1 Mabel is virtually as good as the early Kates. Not sure if that was intentional, but it looks fine to me.

< Message edited by Q-Ball -- 7/29/2009 7:53:39 PM >

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:13:29 PM   
Mike Solli


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Status: offline 		Interesting discussion of the Helen vs. the Sally.  The only question I have is, are there any Helen sentai/chutai reinforcements in the queue?  If so, you may not get them.  I won't be able to check until tonight.  Can someone check this?

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:38:12 PM   
rroberson

 

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Status: offline 		Keep it coming guys I am taking notes like a mad man.

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Post #: 74
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:38:30 PM   
Mike Solli


Posts: 15792
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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		We all are.

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Post #: 75
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:47:54 PM   
treespider


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Status: offline 		You guys really should try WitPStaff...it will save you a lot of work....

I converted my IDA factory at Gifu to Kates






Attachment (1)

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:51:20 PM   
Mike Solli


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Status: offline 		I'll get there.....honest.

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:51:37 PM   
sven6345789

 

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Status: offline 		there are 4 groups of Helens arriving between 1943 and 1945

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Post #: 78
RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:52:33 PM   
Mike Solli


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From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		One alternative is to produce ~30-40 Helens and change each group as they come out to Sallys.

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:54:13 PM   
Mynok


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quote:

ORIGINAL: rroberson

Keep it coming guys I am taking notes like a mad man.


Are you hoping they got rid of the bug that made you lose carriers at an astonishing rate?

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:54:39 PM   
Q-Ball


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Interesting discussion of the Helen vs. the Sally.  The only question I have is, are there any Helen sentai/chutai reinforcements in the queue?  If so, you may not get them.  I won't be able to check until tonight.  Can someone check this?


That's a good question, there are a total of 74 in the queue for the Ia, though not until 12/43. It probably should be built, but not in numbers; you only have 10 engines in production, and probably the thing to do is keep it there, build a small stockpile, enough to fill out a few airframes. You may also need to produce Ia to start lines that auto-upgrade to better models. But producing lots of Helens is probably not a good idea anymore.

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:57:25 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

One alternative is to produce ~30-40 Helens and change each group as they come out to Sallys.

what about the armour of both? Both unarmoured?

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/29/2009 8:57:53 PM   
Grollub


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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/30/2009 1:05:31 AM   
NightFlyer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

You guys really should try WitPStaff...it will save you a lot of work....

I converted my IDA factory at Gifu to Kates

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you converted all your Ki-36 Ida production to Kates, will you now not get the 16 or so Ida air group reinforcements when due? Or did you build enough in your pool before switching? Although most groups wont arrive till late in the war and the extra Kates or Zeros now would sure be nice...

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/30/2009 5:15:55 AM   
treespider


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quote:

ORIGINAL: NightFlyer


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

You guys really should try WitPStaff...it will save you a lot of work....

I converted my IDA factory at Gifu to Kates


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you converted all your Ki-36 Ida production to Kates, will you now not get the 16 or so Ida air group reinforcements when due? Or did you build enough in your pool before switching? Although most groups wont arrive till late in the war and the extra Kates or Zeros now would sure be nice...


Do you really think 100 Ida's in Jun of 45 are as valuable as 24 Kates in 1942? If I don't get them, then I don't get them....

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/30/2009 12:25:58 PM   
Lützow


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Status: offline 		Can anybody give some general advices (or a brief rundown) about what to take care off / adjust / produce in the beginning?

Never played Japaneses in WitP but thought I'd give it a shot with AE now.

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/30/2009 1:01:13 PM   
NightFlyer


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quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider


quote:

ORIGINAL: NightFlyer


quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider

You guys really should try WitPStaff...it will save you a lot of work....

I converted my IDA factory at Gifu to Kates


----------------------------------------------------------------------------

If you converted all your Ki-36 Ida production to Kates, will you now not get the 16 or so Ida air group reinforcements when due? Or did you build enough in your pool before switching? Although most groups wont arrive till late in the war and the extra Kates or Zeros now would sure be nice...


Do you really think 100 Ida's in Jun of 45 are as valuable as 24 Kates in 1942? If I don't get them, then I don't get them....


You're right, the Kates are much more valuable in 41/42 than the Idas. However you won't get those air groups which can be upgraded to fly other more useful planes. I plan to build up just enough Ida's in my pool to get those groups, then stop Ida production, then upgrade the Ida groups to fly jets maybe when they arrive. Another way to increase Kate production is by expanding the Kate factory which in my scenario (#2) was originally set at 0 .

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/30/2009 1:06:26 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Can anybody give some general advices (or a brief rundown) about what to take care off / adjust / produce in the beginning?

Never played Japaneses in WitP but thought I'd give it a shot with AE now.


Lützow, sorry for the cop out, but none of us really know at this point. We haven't had much time to digest it. The idea behind this thread is to discover that together.

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/30/2009 1:09:10 PM   
EUBanana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli
No more droves of AKs sitting in port.


Good good.



Come to meeee, my loooove... </dracula>

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RE: The Japanese Economy - 7/30/2009 1:14:29 PM   
NightFlyer


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Status: offline 		Awesome pic of a Gato running on the surface. Is that the SF Golden Gate bridge on the left side of the pic? He also has his masts up, the show off

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