RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again...

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again...

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RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/30/2009 1:00:51 PM

John Lansford

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline

When Scout was shooting up that transport TF, two of the ships collided with each other during the melee. One later sank (but the torpedo hit probably had something to do with that also).

These combat reports are very entertaining now, but they require a lot of attention or you will miss something new.

(in reply to EUBanana)

Post #: 31

RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/30/2009 2:04:09 PM

Big B

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline

That's all true, and in game terms, none of those devices are protected by armor - so said 5" gun could take out 5"/25 secondaries, AA guns, radar, upper works hits, etc on Boise if that's where it is determined that they hit - they will also start fires as well - if the die rolls dictate. They just won't likely penetrate the armor protecting the ships armored areas.

And as we have seen - it's very random.

B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Not really.

The Japanese 12.7cm/50 3rd Year Type gun (the Japanese Destroyer gun 5" gun) only fired HE and Incendiary Shrapnel rounds.
They would not be able to penetrate the 127mm-165mm armor plate that a Brooklyn class cruiser carried over the vitals - even at point blank range.
HE and IS rounds are soft nosed and not made to penetrate heavy armor plate ... they could get through the thin skinned areas though and start fires.

B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

Gotta agree here. Nagara is not a real light cruiser, its a destroyer leader. It's guns are completely ineffective against a well protected ship like Boise.

At that distance even DD guns penetrate Boise.

Those type of shells are also often an 'airburst' type weapon designed to take out exposed 'vitals' rather than do structural damage. In a modern engagement the HE and IS (especially) would take out crewmen, radars, searchlights, unshielded guns, torpedo tubes, DC racks etc. If you get lucky, they touch off a torpedo or DC and do secondary explosion damage. Same principle in WWII.

(in reply to Shark7)

Post #: 32

RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/30/2009 11:23:15 PM

Zacktar

Posts: 169
Joined: 6/23/2009
Status: offline

Boise also makes a pretty deadly flagship -- this was her Christmas present to me:

quote:

Night Time Surface Combat, near Ternate at 78,102, Range 1,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Shonan Maru #1, Shell hits 11, and is sunk
xAK Yamahagi Maru, Shell hits 16, and is sunk
xAK Matsue Maru, Shell hits 24, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
CL Boise, Shell hits 1
DD Alden
DD Barker
DD Bulmer
DD Edsall
DD John D. Edwards
DD Paul Jones
DD Parrott
DD Whipple
DD Stewart

Japanese ground losses:
1014 casualties reported
Squads: 14 destroyed, 47 disabled
Non Combat: 25 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 11 (6 destroyed, 5 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ternate at 78,102, Range 9,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Venice Maru, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Celebes Maru, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
SC CHa-1, Shell hits 2, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
CL Boise
DD Alden
DD Barker
DD Bulmer
DD Edsall
DD John D. Edwards
DD Paul Jones
DD Parrott
DD Whipple
DD Stewart

Japanese ground losses:
1010 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 68 disabled
Engineers: 14 destroyed, 30 disabled
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ternate at 78,102, Range 5,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Arima Maru, Shell hits 22, and is sunk
xAKL Batavia Maru, Shell hits 21, and is sunk
SC CHa-19, Shell hits 4, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
CL Boise
DD Alden
DD Barker
DD Bulmer
DD Edsall
DD John D. Edwards
DD Paul Jones
DD Parrott
DD Whipple
DD Stewart

Japanese ground losses:
714 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 18 disabled
Non Combat: 12 destroyed, 44 disabled
Engineers: 4 destroyed, 5 disabled

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ternate at 78,102, Range 6,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Malta Maru, Shell hits 33, and is sunk
xAK Sinkyo Maru, Shell hits 7, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Ryuzin Maru, Shell hits 39, and is sunk
xAK Yoneyama Maru, Shell hits 23, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
CL Boise
DD Alden
DD Barker
DD Bulmer
DD Edsall
DD John D. Edwards
DD Paul Jones
DD Parrott
DD Whipple
DD Stewart

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Ternate at 78,102, Range 8,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
PB Takuna Maru #6, Shell hits 2, and is sunk
xAK Kotoku Maru, Shell hits 16, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Marblehead
CL Boise
DD Alden
DD Barker
DD Bulmer
DD Edsall
DD John D. Edwards
DD Paul Jones
DD Parrott
DD Whipple
DD Stewart

(in reply to Big B)

Post #: 33

RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/30/2009 11:37:20 PM

Sheytan

Posts: 863
Joined: 11/28/2006
Status: offline

Which is fine by me, if its all numbers crunching whats the point of even playing?

Another example is the following, I raced every light naval asset from AUS/NZ to Rabul/Shortlands area, The IJN arrived before I was able to combine all these assets into a tidy little fleet, one AUS CL arrived at Rabul before the other assets, and ran smack into a IJN invasion fleet escorted by a SC TF which included a BB.

The AUS CL was sunk, and I kicked myself for not combining my assets first before going in. At this point Canbarra and another AUS CL were only one hex away, so I rerouted them to shortlands to meet up with NZ assets, HOWEVER...it had react to active, and apparently the commander of this two ship force decided to react against the IJN forces at Rabul...of course when I saw this happen, I instantly felt like I was going to see two more cruisers destroyed. Well I only lost one, and the Canbarra put two torps into the IJN BB, she sank shortly there after, that is both of them. A pyrric victory to be sure, but then again id trade two cruisers for a IJN BB anyday.

Oh and its drove off the rest of the invasion assets. I like this sort of "randomness" all in all a very plausable outcome.

Regarding the Boise, in my current game she came across a very large, I mean like a division embarked convoy, and sank about a third of this convoy. However it was also unescorted.

Night Time Surface Combat, near Balabac at 67,79, Range 7,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
xAK Nansin Maru
xAKL Nichizui Maru
xAKL Nissen Maru #2, Shell hits 5, and is sunk
xAKL Saiko Maru
xAK Sanuki Maru
xAK Shoho Maru
xAK Taibun Maru
xAK Tatsuho Maru, Shell hits 4
xAK Tone Maru, Shell hits 2, on fire
xAK Uyo Maru
xAK Ume Maru, Shell hits 19, and is sunk
xAK Yuzan Maru, Shell hits 18, and is sunk
xAK Yubari Maru, Shell hits 8, and is sunk
xAKL Akita Maru, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
xAKL Ayaha Maru
xAKL Awa Maru
xAKL Heiyo Maru, Shell hits 3, and is sunk
xAKL Higashiyama Maru
xAKL Yagi Maru
xAK Okuni Maru, Shell hits 10, and is sunk
xAKL Hachirogata Maru
xAKL Fukuyo Maru

Allied Ships
CL Boise, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
972 casualties reported
Squads: 34 destroyed, 25 disabled
Non Combat: 38 destroyed, 38 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 11 (5 destroyed, 6 disabled)

Reduced sighting due to 28% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 28% moonlight: 7,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 7,000 yards
Allies open fire on surprised Japanese ships at 7,000 yards
CL Boise fires at xAK Okuni Maru at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
xAK Okuni Maru sunk by CL Boise at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 3,000 yards
xAK Yubari Maru sunk by CL Boise at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Yuzan Maru at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Yuzan Maru at 3,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAKL Nissen Maru #2 at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Yuzan Maru at 2,000 yards
xAK Yuzan Maru sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAKL Akita Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Ume Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Tatsuho Maru at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Ume Maru at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Ume Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Tatsuho Maru at 2,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAK Tone Maru at 2,000 yards
Range increases to 3,000 yards
CL Boise engages xAKL Nissen Maru #2 at 3,000 yards
Range closes to 2,000 yards
xAK Ume Maru sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
xAKL Heiyo Maru sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
Task forces break off...

quote:

ORIGINAL: denisonh

Combat is chaos, so there should be a wide range of outcomes. Good "combat modelling" is difficult, but aleways has to incorporate a large variability due to the vagaries of modern combat.

People think of it too much like chess. It most certainly isn't.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Iridium

Ran the turn again to see different results. Boise is a tough customer but can be beaten. Now if only I could determine what the average encounter with her would be.

As a side note, an encounter with a merchie fleet and 2 DDs from Hong Kong met up with Chokai and Sagiri heading for their parent task force. First time I ran the turn it was a complete massacre for the allies, 2nd time around Chokai got nailed with a torp and Sagiri was thrashed with many rounds of gun fire.

If I was a suspicious person, I'd say the game seems much more inclined towards randomness.

quote:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Dadjangas at 79,93, Range 1,000 Yards

Allied aircraft
no flights

Allied aircraft losses
No Allied losses

Japanese Ships
CL Nagara
DD Yukikaze
DD Tokitsukaze
DD Yamakaze
DD Kawakaze
DD Umikaze
DD Suzukaze
DD Shiokaze, Shell hits 13, and is sunk

Allied Ships
CL Boise, Shell hits 4, Torpedo hits 4, and is sunk

Reduced sighting due to 35% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Partly Cloudy Conditions and 35% moonlight: 10,000 yards
Range closes to 1,000 yards...
Naoi, Toshio crosses the 'T'
DD Shiokaze engages CL Boise at 1,000 yards
CL Boise engages DD Umikaze at 1,000 yards
Moran, E. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 2,000 yards
CL Nagara engages CL Boise at 2,000 yards
DD Shiokaze sunk by CL Boise at 2,000 yards
CL Boise sunk by DD Suzukaze at 2,000 yards
Combat ends with last Allied ship sunk...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

< Message edited by Sheytan -- 7/30/2009 11:48:02 PM >

(in reply to denisonh)

Post #: 34

RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/31/2009 12:46:31 AM

Dili

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Not really.

The Japanese 12.7cm/50 3rd Year Type gun (the Japanese Destroyer gun 5" gun) only fired HE and Incendiary Shrapnel rounds.
They would not be able to penetrate the 127mm-165mm armor plate that a Brooklyn class cruiser carried over the vitals - even at point blank range.
HE and IS rounds are soft nosed and not made to penetrate heavy armor plate ... they could get through the thin skinned areas though and start fires.

B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

Gotta agree here. Nagara is not a real light cruiser, its a destroyer leader. It's guns are completely ineffective against a well protected ship like Boise.

At that distance even DD guns penetrate Boise.

You are right, i didn't know that they hadn't AP rounds.

(in reply to Big B)

Post #: 35

RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/31/2009 1:52:47 AM

Big B

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline

No worries Dili,
But several IJN DD's taking on a Brooklyn CL is a pretty forlorn hope in a shooting match - kinda' like M-7 Priest SPA's taking on a MK VI Tiger in a shoot out ... unless the Long Lance comes into play -

Otherwise - it's "lay smoke, helm's a'lee, and 35 knots away!"

B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

ORIGINAL: Big B

Not really.

The Japanese 12.7cm/50 3rd Year Type gun (the Japanese Destroyer gun 5" gun) only fired HE and Incendiary Shrapnel rounds.
They would not be able to penetrate the 127mm-165mm armor plate that a Brooklyn class cruiser carried over the vitals - even at point blank range.
HE and IS rounds are soft nosed and not made to penetrate heavy armor plate ... they could get through the thin skinned areas though and start fires.

B

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

quote:

Gotta agree here. Nagara is not a real light cruiser, its a destroyer leader. It's guns are completely ineffective against a well protected ship like Boise.

At that distance even DD guns penetrate Boise.

You are right, i didn't know that they hadn't AP rounds.

(in reply to Dili)

Post #: 36

RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/31/2009 2:41:03 AM

Cuttlefish

Posts: 2454
Joined: 1/24/2007
From: Oregon, USA
Status: offline

I'm afraid the title and content of this thread has lodged a song my head. To the tune of "Kung Fu Fighting":

Everybody was Boise fighting
Those guns were fast as lightning
In fact it was a little bit frightning
'Cause they fired with expert timing...

< Message edited by Cuttlefish -- 7/31/2009 4:21:08 AM >

(in reply to Iridium)

Post #: 37

RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/31/2009 3:46:18 AM

Big B

Posts: 4870
Joined: 6/1/2005
From: Old Los Angeles pre-1960
Status: offline

"No extra charge for sheer awesomeness.."

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

I'm afraid the title and content of this thread has lodged a song my head. To the tune of "Kung Fu Fighting":

Everybody was Boise fighting
Those guns were fast as lighting
In fact it was a little bit frightning
'Cause they fired with expert timing...

Attachment (1)

(in reply to Cuttlefish)

Post #: 38

RE: Kung Fu Boise strikes again... - 7/31/2009 4:15:36 AM

Shark7

Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cuttlefish

I'm afraid the title and content of this thread has lodged a song my head. To the tune of "Kung Fu Fighting":

Everybody was Boise fighting
Those guns were fast as lighting
In fact it was a little bit frightning
'Cause they fired with expert timing...

ARGGHHHHH!!!!

Now you've got that song stuck in my head.