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RE: 4E bombers... - 8/5/2009 1:08:53 PM   
bsq


Posts: 517
Joined: 1/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

The 17 Pounder from the Sherman Firefly was a derivative of the 17 Pounder Flak as well, but to develop a tank gun from a AA gun isn't the same as using a AA gun for ground combat.


The OQF 17 Pdr was an entirely bespoke (anti-tank) weapon. British Heavy AA was based around the 3" and 3.7", with the latter weapon being standard after 1941.

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 31
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/5/2009 6:26:37 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		I think (playing the GC) that the 4Es work just fine. Tojos do very well against them, and even Nates can bring them down occasionally.

Doubtless experience is a major factor in all this.

What I am really looking for though is at what point the Allied player can amass the vast 8th Air Force style raids that were commonplace in stock. If it's before 1944 I will be annoyed ... :)


(in reply to bsq)
Post #: 32
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/6/2009 3:57:13 AM   
scout1


Posts: 2899
Joined: 8/24/2004
From: South Bend, In
Status: offline 		DOn't know about AE yet, but my experience with WitP was that the Allies don't need no stinking fighters. Merely fly those 4E devils into major bases and get a damn respectable kill ratio of Japanese fighters to bombers..... Hell, I'd rather go up against the best of the Allies fighters before having to face the 4E devils .....

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 33
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/6/2009 4:43:32 AM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I think (playing the GC) that the 4Es work just fine. Tojos do very well against them, and even Nates can bring them down occasionally.

Doubtless experience is a major factor in all this.

What I am really looking for though is at what point the Allied player can amass the vast 8th Air Force style raids that were commonplace in stock. If it's before 1944 I will be annoyed ... :)




If you are bringing them down with Tojo's in the grand campaign in AE, then that is an improvement over Vanilla. And you don't even want to know how bad it is in CHS Nik Mod...

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 34
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/6/2009 5:38:21 AM   
hmota

 

Posts: 58
Joined: 5/17/2007
From: czech
Status: offline 		I make another test...try Franks with 90exp pilots against Liberators... results is similar like with Tojos Tonys and zeros...after one month of practicaly daily bomb strikes jap pilots were unable to shot down even single Liberator...lost during this month are practicaly the same no matter which fighter japannese player use (zero, tony, tojo, frank) 4-6 liberators are downed by flak, 5-8 are ops loses...1/4 to 1/2 of Liberators are permanently damaged...

even more japs pilots which have 40-50 mission each makes mo progres in skills...first change I notice after trying sweep with Lightnings and losing 3 of them...

this test was made on modified aleutian scenario(almost mid ´43)...so far don´t know how it will be in GC...

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 35
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/6/2009 8:16:12 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		at least in stocks you can bring down 4E with advanced japanese fighters in a large number. that happend to the last big allied raid in my game:

Day Air attack on Rangoon , at 29,34

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 63
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 132

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 107
B-24D Liberator x 43

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 14 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 7 destroyed, 93 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 40 destroyed, 27 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 22 destroyed

the allied can not mount more raids like this without fighter escort because of the loses.

maybe someone can do more testing via ediotor?


(in reply to hmota)
Post #: 36
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/6/2009 8:22:40 AM   
rominet


Posts: 523
Joined: 10/23/2007
From: Paris
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

at least in stocks you can bring down 4E with advanced japanese fighters in a large number. that happend to the last big allied raid in my game:

Day Air attack on Rangoon , at 29,34

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 63
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 132

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 107
B-24D Liberator x 43

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 14 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 7 destroyed, 93 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 40 destroyed, 27 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 22 destroyed

the allied can not mount more raids like this without fighter escort because of the loses.

maybe someone can do more testing via ediotor?





Are you talking about AE or WitP??
And which date is it?

(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 37
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/6/2009 10:04:11 AM   
bigbaba


Posts: 1238
Joined: 11/3/2006
From: Koblenz, Germany
Status: offline 		WITP, end of 1942.

as i said about my experiences in AE, even with enough aviation support and a large airfield, it takes much much longer to fix damaged 4E bombers now. that alone should reduce the number of AC and the frequency of air attacks of the allied bomber armada.

(in reply to rominet)
Post #: 38
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/6/2009 12:58:30 PM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		I've found 4Es to be almost useless so far.  They spend their days at airfields being fixed.  Things are sad indeed when 20 Betties vs 20 B17s in a long range bomber duel (Batavia vs Kuching) results in the B17s giving up and going to Australia, leaving half their fellows behind due to being 'in maintenance'.

Admittedly this is 1942 and they are 20 odd B17s.  Liberators have a better service rating I think, may be a different story.  Also airbase size I imagine would be less of an issue in 1943, as it is the B17s are always in non-optimal airfields.


_____________________________


(in reply to bigbaba)
Post #: 39
RE: 4E bombers... - 8/6/2009 3:03:01 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rominet


quote:

ORIGINAL: bigbaba

at least in stocks you can bring down 4E with advanced japanese fighters in a large number. that happend to the last big allied raid in my game:

Day Air attack on Rangoon , at 29,34

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 63
Ki-61 KAIc Tony x 132

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 107
B-24D Liberator x 43

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 6 destroyed, 14 damaged
Ki-61 KAIc Tony: 7 destroyed, 93 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 40 destroyed, 27 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 22 destroyed

the allied can not mount more raids like this without fighter escort because of the loses.

maybe someone can do more testing via ediotor?





Are you talking about AE or WitP??
And which date is it?


A big key to that type of success is to make sure you preserve your experienced pilots by not over-using them in the earlier stages. You need 80+ experience groups to down bombers.

_____________________________

Distant Worlds Fan

'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to rominet)
Post #: 40
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