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RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/21/2009 10:17:53 PM   
Dukemourn

 

Posts: 50
Joined: 6/11/2004
Status: offline 		When you post the lists of changes for the patches can you put an asterisk or something next to any fixes that require a restart? This would go a long way in helping us decide if we wish to restart.

(in reply to Don Bowen)
Post #: 61
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/22/2009 2:54:25 AM   
jwilkerson


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From: Kansas
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dukemourn

When you post the lists of changes for the patches can you put an asterisk or something next to any fixes that require a restart? This would go a long way in helping us decide if we wish to restart.


No fixes will "require" a restart. Whether to restart or not, is a player decision. Some fixes may not take effect without a restart - but at least this patch (as is true with all WITP patches this team has ever done) will not "require" a restart.





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(in reply to Dukemourn)
Post #: 62
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/22/2009 3:34:36 AM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


quote:

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

Play till the patch comes out to truly find out HOW the game is played.  Then restart once the first patch comes out.  I lost count of the number of times I restarted WITP.



Or do like me and study every single little thing there is to study on the Dec 8, 1941 turn. I plan on not going past the first turn by the time when the patch comes, hahahaha

fbs



I'm with you here and I am doing the same, but, for me, I won't try a serious stab at the game until after Patch 2. Until then anything done is futile. It may not bother some to to start over and over and over again but I learned my lesson with my favorite WITP mod RHS.

(in reply to fbs)
Post #: 63
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/22/2009 3:36:25 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
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From: Finland/Israel
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_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 64
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/22/2009 3:58:39 AM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
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From: Upland,CA,USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar





Obviously you disagree with my approach. Cool. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream and different size shoes. You do what you want Dude.

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 65
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/22/2009 8:13:38 AM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar





Obviously you disagree with my approach. Cool. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream and different size shoes. You do what you want Dude.


Nah, just that they have repeatedly said they try to make patches so they do not require re-start. AFAIK, some things might need you to restart the game to have them implemented, but I don't think there was ever even WitP patch that REQUIRED player to do restart. One could play game just fine, but some database changes could be implemented only with new start of scenario. Patch 1.6. comes to my mind.

Sorry if I appeared bit insulting!

_____________________________

"To meaningless French Idealism, Liberty, Fraternity and Equality...we answer with German Realism, Infantry, Cavalry and Artillery" -Prince von Bülov, 1870-


(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 66
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/22/2009 12:59:41 PM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 921
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From: SE Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dukemourn

When you post the lists of changes for the patches can you put an asterisk or something next to any fixes that require a restart? This would go a long way in helping us decide if we wish to restart.


Good Idea, should be for all patches.

(in reply to Dukemourn)
Post #: 67
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/22/2009 3:27:33 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
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From: Upland,CA,USA
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar





Obviously you disagree with my approach. Cool. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream and different size shoes. You do what you want Dude.


Nah, just that they have repeatedly said they try to make patches so they do not require re-start. AFAIK, some things might need you to restart the game to have them implemented, but I don't think there was ever even WitP patch that REQUIRED player to do restart. One could play game just fine, but some database changes could be implemented only with new start of scenario. Patch 1.6. comes to my mind.

Sorry if I appeared bit insulting!




I guess I should have stated in my response to fbs that I am only an AI player where patches do have a greater impact.



< Message edited by Buck Beach -- 8/22/2009 3:35:19 PM >

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 68
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/22/2009 3:31:06 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dukemourn

When you post the lists of changes for the patches can you put an asterisk or something next to any fixes that require a restart? This would go a long way in helping us decide if we wish to restart.


No fixes will "require" a restart. Whether to restart or not, is a player decision. Some fixes may not take effect without a restart - but at least this patch (as is true with all WITP patches this team has ever done) will not "require" a restart.


Just curious, but is that due to the fact you guys made such a strong effort to "non-hard-code" so many of the AE changes? Even pulling things OUT of the original WitP engine and making them accessible through editable files?

As to Duke's request, I think what he's really asking is this - Can the change list indicate which ones would not take effect without a restart?

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 69
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/23/2009 2:47:08 PM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 921
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
Status: offline 		As I am still going over the map and manuel, I am still waiting to even start a game because I am afraid of a 'patch requiring a restart'.

Please, PLease, if you guys think that there may be changes requiring a restart, please focus on that part first.

And if you think your changes will not require a restart but may effect game play in a somewhat dramatic way, Please include them in the first patch.

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 70
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/23/2009 3:01:55 PM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar


quote:

ORIGINAL: Buck Beach


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar





Obviously you disagree with my approach. Cool. That's why they make chocolate and vanilla ice cream and different size shoes. You do what you want Dude.


Nah, just that they have repeatedly said they try to make patches so they do not require re-start. AFAIK, some things might need you to restart the game to have them implemented, but I don't think there was ever even WitP patch that REQUIRED player to do restart. One could play game just fine, but some database changes could be implemented only with new start of scenario. Patch 1.6. comes to my mind.

Sorry if I appeared bit insulting!

Yes Sardaukar they don`t require a restart after but it will not help you if the CL Bose or some other ship blows away a fleet because of the ship battle bug,applying a patch will not refloat your boat.

So a few other wise people and I play waiting game for the War to begin!


Tiger!

< Message edited by tigercub -- 8/24/2009 1:15:36 PM >

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(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 71
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/23/2009 3:33:53 PM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
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From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

As I am still going over the map and manuel, I am still waiting to even start a game because I am afraid of a 'patch requiring a restart'.


Start up the Aleutians scenario. It has minimal forces and can be played very quickly. And when the patch come tomorrow, ditch your game and start over. It'll be painless.

(in reply to Hanzberger)
Post #: 72
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/23/2009 4:01:39 PM   
Hanzberger


Posts: 921
Joined: 4/26/2006
From: SE Pennsylvania
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull

quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

As I am still going over the map and manuel, I am still waiting to even start a game because I am afraid of a 'patch requiring a restart'.


Start up the Aleutians scenario. It has minimal forces and can be played very quickly. And when the patch come tomorrow, ditch your game and start over. It'll be painless.

didn't know there was one LOL I am still going thru the manuel and actually hoping to take on a human once the first and possibly the second patches are released.

(in reply to Kull)
Post #: 73
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/23/2009 4:35:15 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline

Current (revised as of 23 August) schedule:

patch01 - public pre-release week of 24 Aug ... real public release ... week of 31 Aug ... change list will be in both pre-release and real release.

patch02 - target date roughly - end of Oct 09.



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(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 74
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/23/2009 5:19:39 PM   
kaleun

 

Posts: 5145
Joined: 5/29/2002
From: Colorado
Status: offline 		Thanks. Mmmm, wonder what this will do for my 2 campaign PBEM games.

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Appear at places to which he must hasten; move swiftly where he does not expect you.
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(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 75
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/23/2009 5:49:18 PM   
DrewMatrix


Posts: 1429
Joined: 7/15/2004
Status: offline 		One huge advantage of playing vs the AI is that my opponent won't complain if I start over <G>.

I plan to continue my current GC (Allies vs AI, Scen 6 but I'll probably do Scen 2, HI next time) but play much faster for the next week, ignoring small stuff and seeing how a few things work out, mostly production and repair rates. That should get me to Apr or May 42 by the time the patch is out. Then I likely will start over not just for the patch, but because I didn't understand a number of things.


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(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 76
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/23/2009 11:54:37 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Beezle

One huge advantage of playing vs the AI is that my opponent won't complain if I start over <G>.

I plan to continue my current GC (Allies vs AI, Scen 6 but I'll probably do Scen 2, HI next time) but play much faster for the next week, ignoring small stuff and seeing how a few things work out, mostly production and repair rates. That should get me to Apr or May 42 by the time the patch is out. Then I likely will start over not just for the patch, but because I didn't understand a number of things.




Nor if you go back to an earlier save and play do overs. It's only cheating when you have an opponent or a prize for winning a game.

(in reply to DrewMatrix)
Post #: 77
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 12:03:43 AM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: kaleun

Thanks. Mmmm, wonder what this will do for my 2 campaign PBEM games.



Nothing if you don't mind a game that is flawed. Please I'm not complaining about the original release. It occurs with all new games during the real consumer test phase If you and your opponent enjoy investing weeks, months, years, all the while knowing the current product is better, just remember that "no restarts are required (except for AI games) " per the management.

< Message edited by Buck Beach -- 8/24/2009 12:04:25 AM >

(in reply to kaleun)
Post #: 78
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 1:19:47 AM   
fbs

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 12/25/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Current (revised as of 23 August) schedule:

patch01 - public pre-release week of 24 Aug



Yay, now is Aug 23 20:21 PM... only 3 hours 39 minutes to the patch! I'll stay awake

Cheers
fbs

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 79
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 4:44:16 AM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Current (revised as of 23 August) schedule:

patch01 - public pre-release week of 24 Aug



Yay, now is Aug 23 20:21 PM... only 3 hours 39 minutes to the patch! I'll stay awake

Cheers
fbs


Not sure how you are calculating - the "week of" (note I boldified "week of") means any time that week. At this point, I would estimate we about about 3 days away from the "public beta" - note this is not "the patch" ... I still think that will be "week of 31 August" as I said earlier.

We have spent most of the weekend working on the patch rather than posting about working on the patch. We have a pile of stuff that will be in the patch, the list will be included in the public beta.

We've done some tweaking on surface combat.
For AE we had added in a "wipe out" capability that was missing in WITP. Basically in WITP, a large surface force of BB, CA, CL and DD, could enter a landing hex containing 20 AP/AK and wind up only getting maybe 4 of them. We thought there should be a chance of getting more - maybe even all of them if the conditions were optimal. For most of the past 9 months or so, this feature seemed to work fine. You would get something more than 4 ships some times .. but sometimes some would get away ... then all of a sudden, right at the end, some "unintended consequences" crep in - and the wipe outs started happening more often than we desired. This has now been adjusted back. There is still the chance of a wipe out, but it will not be happening all over the map every turn.

A similar symptom - but caused by a completely different issue - was wipe outs of surface TFs operating at "cruise" speed found this weekend by "Barb" (thanks Barb !!!) - we've addressed that issue as well.

Early war radar has also been toned down a bit - it will no longer give its owners as much of an advantage. There will be an effectiveness roll, not only representing possible malfunction of the radar, but perhaps more the (in) ability to assimilate the information from the radar, into the TF command and then generate useful orders back to the TF elements in a timely manner. Early war battles involving radar included a learning curve that was not sufficiently represented in AE, now we think it will be.

Well there are literally over a hundred changes, surface combat tweaks just topping my personal list since I've been working in that area this weekend, but by roughly Thursday (plus or minus one day) we should be able to post the public beta of patch 01 ... followed about a week later by the actual patch 01.

Thanks for your support and patience. This forum has definitely helped us focus on the priorities and this will result in a better AE for everyone!



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(in reply to fbs)
Post #: 80
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 4:48:07 AM   
rockmedic109

 

Posts: 2390
Joined: 5/17/2005
From: Citrus Heights, CA
Status: offline 		YAAAYYYYY!!

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 81
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 4:48:41 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fbs


quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Current (revised as of 23 August) schedule:

patch01 - public pre-release week of 24 Aug



Yay, now is Aug 23 20:21 PM... only 3 hours 39 minutes to the patch! I'll stay awake

Cheers
fbs


Actually in "3 hours 39 minutes", the devs will have up to 7-days to release the patch. Hopefully they cram in as many fixes as possible during that time frame, because the next one isn't until October. Just guessing here, but the only changes between the public beta patch and the "offical" release will be fixes to new, patch-caused issues that surface during testing of the public beta.

(in reply to fbs)
Post #: 82
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 4:51:36 AM   
jwilkerson


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kull
Just guessing here, but the only changes between the public beta patch and the "offical" release will be fixes to new, patch-caused issues that surface during testing of the public beta.


Well that's the theory according to "Change Management 401" - but in this universe - hard and fast rules are not so hard and fast. If anyone finds a "show stopper" we won't be able to push out fixing it. So shall we say "patch induced issues" and any "show stopper" regardless.

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Post #: 83
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 5:07:24 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
Well that's the theory according to "Change Management 401" - but in this universe - hard and fast rules are not so hard and fast. If anyone finds a "show stopper" we won't be able to push out fixing it. So shall we say "patch induced issues" and any "show stopper" regardless.


Good plan. And if even if (when) one surfaces after the official release, well.....that's what hot-fixes are for!

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 84
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 5:33:12 AM   
fbs

 

Posts: 1048
Joined: 12/25/2008
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson
Not sure how you are calculating - the "week of" (note I boldified "week of") means any time that week. At this point, I would estimate we about about 3 days away from the "public beta" - note this is not "the patch" ... I still think that will be "week of 31 August" as I said earlier.



Wohoo! That's very much appreciate, Mr. Wilkerson!

That's really awesome - 31 minutes into the week and we already have a description of several items in the patch. Very nice. I just wished that my car mechanic were that fast - with him, "next week" kinda means "someday next 3 months".. :(

Thank you!
fbs

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 85
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 6:02:06 AM   
Caltone


Posts: 651
Joined: 9/5/2001
From: Raleigh, NC USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson


...

Well there are literally over a hundred changes, surface combat tweaks just topping my personal list since I've been working in that area this weekend, but by roughly Thursday (plus or minus one day) we should be able to post the public beta of patch 01 ... followed about a week later by the actual patch 01.

Thanks for your support and patience. This forum has definitely helped us focus on the priorities and this will result in a better AE for everyone!





Great news, thanks to the entire team for all the hard work!




(Except for that guy Sonny II, my bet is he's up to no good, finding ways to foil my plans for East Asia Domination)





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(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 86
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 9:43:47 AM   
BShaftoe

 

Posts: 77
Joined: 6/22/2005
From: Oviedo, North of Spain
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quote:

ORIGINAL: jwilkerson

Early war radar has also been toned down a bit - it will no longer give its owners as much of an advantage. There will be an effectiveness roll, not only representing possible malfunction of the radar, but perhaps more the (in) ability to assimilate the information from the radar, into the TF command and then generate useful orders back to the TF elements in a timely manner. Early war battles involving radar included a learning curve that was not sufficiently represented in AE, now we think it will be.


That sounds really great... but... are british ships object to the same roll? I mean, British Royal Navy had demonstrated they knew how to use radar (Matapan as the most obvious example). Do they suffer the same lack of efectivity as, let's say, US Navy?

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 87
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 9:47:51 AM   
tigercub


Posts: 2004
Joined: 2/3/2003
From: brisbane oz
Status: offline 		Good work! thanks, will there be list of whats in patch 2 when you release patch 1 ?


Tiger!

< Message edited by tigercub -- 8/24/2009 1:31:09 PM >

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Post #: 88
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 2:09:43 PM   
jwilkerson


Posts: 10525
Joined: 9/15/2002
From: Kansas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tigercub

Good work! thanks, will there be list of whats in patch 2 when you release patch 1 ?



As mentioned previously, the only item in the plan for patch 02 is the implementation of "borders" - other than that - it will depend on what issues are discovered.



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(in reply to tigercub)
Post #: 89
RE: Patch 01 ... Patch 02 - 8/24/2009 2:16:54 PM   
John Lansford

 

Posts: 2662
Joined: 4/29/2002
Status: offline 		Radar presence and its use was often ignored by USN TF commanders unless the device was in his flagship, and even then it wasn't always trusted.  There were several night battles around Guadalcanal in 1942 where the flagship didn't have radar installed but other ships did, leading to some very confused and bloody battles.  I'd like it if the lack of radar in a TF's flagship would limit its effectiveness in battle even if other ships had it.

(in reply to jwilkerson)
Post #: 90
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