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RE: Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 3:17:41 AM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Canorebel,

I advise patience in approaching this inflammatory topic. If I may be so bold-Miller seems like a sensible and respectable bloke. Infusing your game with language of cheating or rampant use of 'cheat codes' may be a bit strong. I'm sure there's an amicable way out of this. I encourage you to find that way rather than remain frustrated in your opponent.

Were I in your shoes (and this is what I'm thinking of doing proactively as a IJ PBEM x2 gamer), I would propose a limited number of days of uber bombardment. You are unlikely to receive hard coding changes re: supply use of bombardments in a time frame to satisfy you. Furthermore, since Miller paid PPs to extricate those units from Manchuko, he's done the honorable thing already. See if you can work out some 'deal': "Use your atomic bombardment for two turns, but no more. Then let the infantry, armor and engineers take over and settle the matter."

I would bet he'd bite on this workaround and you could dispense with the 'cheating' language.

There is a defense to a Japanese Artillery Death Star in China. It's the same defense as Uber-cap, nuclear SCTF bombardments, submarine-based invasions and every other little bug in WiTP. It's having a good partner that you can communicate (and AGREE) with. This tends to solve most problems and it will probably solve this one.

_____________________________


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 271
RE: Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 4:01:29 AM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline 		Agree with chickenboy, you might try just expressing your concerns to Miller and see what happens. In my game with aztez, after it became clear that arty was too powerful I self-restricted in, for example, my campaign for Sian and didn't bombard every turn, I would go a turn or two (2 day turns) without bombarding, and tended to do more deliberate attacks than bombardments as the results were more balanced, relatively speaking. And after Sian fell, we decided to have a couple week cooling off period in China rather than just seeing how far Japan could twist the knife. So it never hurts to ask. And it's a two way street. Maybe in '44 you'll have 300 heavy bombers strat bombing out of china, and he'll say "Boy, this seems excessive, unrealistic, and impossible to stop. How about if we limit to one bomber group"?

One of my previous PBEM partners (paladin, but I almost never see him posting on the boards) put it this way when I was getting my butt kicked in Scen 4 (witp-classic) and whining a little about game mechanics: "Last time I checked, this is a game. And games are supposed to be fun. So if you're not having fun, let's figure out what we can do to make this fun again." (As it turned out, I was having fun, I was just being a little whiny, so we didn't actually need to change anything.)



(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 272
RE: Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 6:35:35 AM   
Swenslim

 

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline 		I think there must be some sort of HR, no more than 5 independent ART units in one hex.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 273
RE: Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 6:37:05 AM   
Swenslim

 

Posts: 437
Joined: 4/15/2005
From: Odessa, Ukraine
Status: offline 		And developers must increas supply consuming with prolonged bombardment.

(in reply to Swenslim)
Post #: 274
RE: Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 8:23:25 AM   
modrow

 

Posts: 1100
Joined: 8/27/2006
Status: offline 		Chickenboy,

I agree with you IF this issue is turning into a long-festering source of discontent with the game that would lead to the risk of its being discontinued (which may also happen if someone reading this would misunderstand this as some kind of abuse of the opponent, which I believe it is not intended to be, and pass this point of view on). However, I am not sure whether this is Canoerebel's set of mind; looking at what he went through against John IIIrd I actually think he would/will fight on in any case, even if something annoying seems to take place over and over again. He's a fighter. He even managed to self-restrict himself to WitP celibacy for an astounding number of days. But to be able to be more definite so let's use myself as an example.

I, too, tend to be fond of an occasional rant in the seclusion of my AAR. This is just for venting temporal frustration before getting back to fighting on and trying to develop a nasty counter. At the same time, it would never occur to me to ask for a HR or an agreement actively. I demand of myself that I will take the beating my opponent administers (even if it is only with the help of a flaw of the game engine). I have to put up with it and better think of some operation Port Royal rather than commiserating myself and whine like a whelp. Full stop.

I would most likely mention once or twice in e-mail communication that I see a problem or something seems unbalanced and see what happens, essentially hoping for a self-restriction, much like the most honorable course of action Erstad has taken. In this specific case, we are discussing a problem that an active forum visitor may well be aware of (I don't know if Canoerebel's opponent qualifies as such though), reducing the probability that I would point it out in my communication.
But if self-restriction would not occur, I would not ask for a HR and go for a vent every now and then instead.

Just my personal approach though...

Hartwig

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 275
RE: Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 1:18:40 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: hartwig.modrow

Chickenboy,

I agree with you IF this issue is turning into a long-festering source of discontent with the game that would lead to the risk of its being discontinued (which may also happen if someone reading this would misunderstand this as some kind of abuse of the opponent, which I believe it is not intended to be, and pass this point of view on). However, I am not sure whether this is Canoerebel's set of mind; looking at what he went through against John IIIrd I actually think he would/will fight on in any case, even if something annoying seems to take place over and over again. He's a fighter. He even managed to self-restrict himself to WitP celibacy for an astounding number of days. But to be able to be more definite so let's use myself as an example.

I, too, tend to be fond of an occasional rant in the seclusion of my AAR. This is just for venting temporal frustration before getting back to fighting on and trying to develop a nasty counter. At the same time, it would never occur to me to ask for a HR or an agreement actively. I demand of myself that I will take the beating my opponent administers (even if it is only with the help of a flaw of the game engine). I have to put up with it and better think of some operation Port Royal rather than commiserating myself and whine like a whelp. Full stop.

I would most likely mention once or twice in e-mail communication that I see a problem or something seems unbalanced and see what happens, essentially hoping for a self-restriction, much like the most honorable course of action Erstad has taken. In this specific case, we are discussing a problem that an active forum visitor may well be aware of (I don't know if Canoerebel's opponent qualifies as such though), reducing the probability that I would point it out in my communication.
But if self-restriction would not occur, I would not ask for a HR and go for a vent every now and then instead.

Just my personal approach though...

Hartwig

Good post, hartwig.modrow. I am likely overlooking the 'vent factor' and assuming that Canorebel is thusly communicating these feelings verbatim to Miller. In retrospect, that's an unwarranted assumption on my part.


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Post #: 276
RE: Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 2:31:43 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		Patch 2 should be on the back burner unless it starts to offer solutions to the mess that is China

_____________________________

"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 277
RE: Announcing New AE Cheat Code - 11/5/2009 2:32:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Gents,

Thanks for your thoughts and comments, both here and in the "Jap Artillery Death Star" post on the main AE page.  My rant yesterday created some questions about what I meant.  Most of those were cleared up, I believe, by replies by others, but I should state for the record:

1.  As I used the term, a "cheat code" simply means a person has found a way to do something not foreseen by the developers - a way to do accomplish something not intended for the game.  It's the kind of thing that is typically handled by house rules - like addressing 4EB flying naval strike missions below 10,000 feet or massed ASW hunt/kill packs in WitP.  The term is not mean to imply "cheating."   IE, when I say that Miller has found a cheat code in using massed artillery, I'm simply saying it's an unforeseen quirk in the game that will result in dramatic and unintended losses.

2.  Miller and I have squared off in at least four games (UV, WitP, and AE) and he's a straight shooter and a good guy.

3.  We agreed to no house rules and that we'd self-police.  So I'll try to hold my tongue (except when I occasionally rant).  If he raises the issue we can deal with it then.

4.  I'm having a blast with the game despite the Artillery Death Star.  It has created my greatest challenge in the game and I want to see if I can blunt it or counter it.  If I can, Wow!  If I can't and Miller eventually takes China and then, say, moves on to Russia, well, I'll just have to beat him anyhow.

5.  If players forge ahead and deal with these kinds of issues we will better know what works and what doesn't.  So from a "test game" standpoint it's a good idea to play this out.

Now, back to the game!

Regards,

Canoe "I'm Chapped But Not Really" Rebel

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 278
And Now Back to the Real Game - 11/5/2009 4:49:16 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/7/42 and 6/8/42
 
China:  Two more nuclear bombardments at Chengchow - this time inflicting 1,157 and 1,304 casualties.  I can hold for a few more days, but my defense is down to 1800 AV and I can't run them down to zero.  I've already fed in several big units and I don't have much of a reserve left to defend Sian if things get bad.  At this point all I can do is try to rotate some troops in to buy some time.  In addition to artillery, Miller is sending waves of bombers.  I just moved two AVG elements and a Hurricane squadron to adjacent Loyang, plus a Chinese Lancer squadron with decent experience to Nanyang.  These will fly LRCAP over Chengchow the next two days.  Miller has two units at Nanyang.  Chinese reinforcements just arrived so I will deliberate attack there tomorrow.  If this succeeds in booting the Japanese I may be able to cut the road Miller is using to supply units in Chengchow.  But overall things look very bleak in China.  At this point I think in a month or six weeks the Chinese will be down to Sian, Chungking/Chengtu, and the pocket of bases around Changsha, Kweilin, and points west.

Operation Bethel Church:  The Japanese carriers just south of Luganville "disappeared."  No sign of them.  My carriers will jink east and patrol waters well to the NE of Auckland.  It will be hard to load my Luganville-prepped troops because they are too close to the front lines now.  What I may have to do is orchestrate this so that my carrier aircraft and a bombardment group hit Luganville and then the carriers take a blocking position to allow the transports to load.  Additional troops are on the way from the West Coast and will be used if they arrive before I actually proceed with the invasion.

Subs: The damaged xAP reached Suva, went into port, and sank.  This was a disappointing surprise because she had only been moderately damaged.  I-159 sank an AKL near Cox's Bazaar.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 279
RE: And Now Back to the Real Game - 11/5/2009 5:56:37 PM   
Ketza


Posts: 2227
Joined: 1/14/2007
From: Columbia, Maryland
Status: offline 		I have a self imposed rule in my games that I allow one artillery unit to be trasfered per every 3 regimental equivalents. I think in the future I will include that as a house rule until the issue is addressed if indeed it should be at all.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 280
RE: And Now Back to the Real Game - 11/5/2009 7:05:34 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Ketza, I'm a big fan of self-imposed rules.  In this game, I have a rule that 4EB on naval strike must be set at a minimum of 10,000 feet (I'll keep that up until I know for sure that AE handles 4EB more historically).  I also kept cities like Palembang and Rangoon garrisoned (although I did eventually evacuate Rangoon when the Japanese advance threatened to cutoff the garrison).

I can't think of anything I've done so far in the game that would be an abuse of the system, but my opponent would be in a better position to make that evaluation.

I will note that I think my opponent is a little desperate now.  The late Java carrier battle hurt him badly enough that I think he's determined that further major advances in the Pacific are out of the question.  It's only June '42 and he's already worried about the Allies going on the offensive there, so his natural reaction was to search for something he could do and he came up with China. 

(in reply to Ketza)
Post #: 281
RE: And Now Back to the Real Game - 11/6/2009 10:27:53 AM   
Galahad78

 

Posts: 386
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline 		Good day from a WitP total newbie (I'm still struggling with Coral Sea scenario )

Congratulations for a very interesting AAR. Hope you can overcome the Death Star issue and keep kicking Imperial a***s in a very interesting game!

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 282
War in China: General's Edition - 11/6/2009 2:46:44 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/9/42 to 6/12/42
 
War in China:  General's Edition:  See my post in the "Japanese Artillery Death Star" thread for my thoughts regarding the situation in China.  Miller posted in there last evening, also, and apparently doesn't have any problem with his current tactics in China.  His thinking:  "Things are going badly for me in the Pacific, so I proceeding with the Nuclear Japanese Artillery Option in China. 

China:  Miller's stack at Chengchow got a 3:1 attack on the 9th that dropped forts to 1 and inflicted 4,025 (Japanese) to 5,941.  The following day the attack was at 1:1, dropped forts to zero, and inflicted 3,410 to 6,132. He then stood down his troops for two days to allow them to recover disruption.  I expect a shock attack tomorrow and that will finish off Chengchow - my only hope is that another large unit (nearly 300 AV) will arrive tomorrow, but it will be at Move status so it won't help much.  My units are Chengchow are a total wreck.  There's not enough left to defend Loyang, which means Nanyang becomes untenable, which means the Chinese will soon have to withdraw to Sian.  I will have a large and decent army there that might be able to hold the Japanese for awhile - although all bets are off with the Nuclear Artillery Option.  If Sian falls, Chungking is next.

Operation Red River Valley:  This is combined operations that I hope will allow me to press the Japanese in the Pacific and Indian Oceans.  Red River Valley is four separate operations:

1.  Operation Bethel Church:  The invasion of Luganville.  I am still assembling ground units to get this operation under way.  Three 100% prepped units are currently at Noumea and Efate, right under the nose of Japanese LBA at Luganville.  So getting amphibious ships in to load is poblematic.  Those ships just left Auckland, will rendezvous with the Allied carriers SE of Noumea, and then proceed to Noumea.  The carriers will then take a position between Noumea and Luganville, both acting as a shield and sending air strikes against Luganville.  A combat TF will also hit Luganville.

2.  Operation Ocean Pond:  As soon as this drawn-out and complicated, but necessary, invasion of Luganville is complete, the carriers and alot of APs will try to sneak away to the West Coast to rest, refit, and prepare for Operation Port Royal (more about that in a minute).  Meanwhile, I will try to create as much noise as possible that the Allies intend to advance further in the Solomons and New Guinea areas.  I will leave the two RN carriers to assist with this deception.  I will also try to occupy some smaller islands.  When I'm ready to proceed with other major operations elsewhere, a mock invasion force will approach Port Moresby, Gili Gili or Irau (aka Kirakira) to further this deception.

3.  Operation Port Royal:  I want to proceed as soon as possible.  I need two things, though:  Political Points to buy the necessary units and the ships currently involved in Operation Bethel Church.  So setting this up will take time.  I have an infantry division and two infantry regiments prepping and at or on the way to Seattle.  Several more Marine regiments are due to arrive in San Diego in the coming weeks and these will join in this operation.  Buying troops may take 4,000 or 5,000 political points.  I currently have 1,600, so I think this will be possible.  My original target date was September 1, but I will proceed as soon as ships and troops are ready.  I will NOT, however, buy the troops until I'm certain I'm going forward.

4.  Operation Resaca:  Just before the Allies proceed with Port Royal (the invasion of Paramushiro and Onnekotan), I want the British to invade Sumatra and adjacent islands.  This is primarily a diversion, but I intend to come in big enough numbers to stay.  That may be possible if Port Royal succeeds and Miller diverts alot of his attention, ships, men, and material to meeting the crisis in NoPac.  I won't have the Political Points needed to buy currently restricted Indian units, so I'm taking other steps.  Most British brigades (unrestricted) are currently 100% prepped for their current positions of Colombo, Calcutta, Colima, and Chittagong.  I have changed these to Sabang.  Other troops/support personnel will be directed to the Nicobars and an island south of Sabang.   In order for me to proceed, I must keep Port Blair.  I have troops prepping at Ceylon and I will try to sneak them in.  Of course, Miller probably has designs of his own on Port Blair (it is an obvious target) and this could turn into a meeting engagement on a scale that I cannot win at this point in the game.  Finally, to replace the British units that I'm pulling from the front lines, Indian units currently 100% prepped for and located at Madras have changed their prep to Calcutta and Chittagong and will move to those cities.

Most complicated!  I like it. 

(in reply to Galahad78)
Post #: 283
The Ravishing of Chengchow - 11/6/2009 11:14:57 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/13/42 and 6/14/42
 
Chengchow:  This key base on the Chinese MLR finally succumbed to the prolonged siege featuring Artillery Death Starts and massive waves of strategic and tactical bombing.  A deliberate attack on the 13th came off at 2:1, cost the IJ 1,643 casualties and the Chinese 18,409, and the city changed hands.

Loyang:  The destroyed Chinese troops (many corps have AVs of 0 or single digits now) retreated to Loyang, which has four forts and a few decent units.  I'll try to make Loyang a roadblock that stops the Japanese for perhaps a week or two.  I *think* Miller will bombard the turn after he arrives in order to feel out the defenses.  Accordinly, I'm placing ALL my troops in reserve.  After he bombards, I'll change them over.

Nanyang:  The Chinese army east of this city launched back to back shock attacks against two Japanese units - the first came off at 37:1 and the second at 50:1.  The Japanese lost 11,500 troops and the Allies 1,500.  I believe one unit vaporized.  I'll shock attack again tomorrow in an effort to destroy the other, then my guys will return to Nanyang.  I'll make a stand there, but once Loyang falls I'll have to vacate Nanyang too.  Next stop:  Sian.

Email Message from Miller after Chengchow Fell:  "I have read your comments re Jap Artillery, and I agree we should perhaps have a limit on the number of units in a hex. I have a figure in mind, but would like to hear your thoughts first."

My reply:   "I've been pretty chapped about the use of artillery, but we agreed to no house rules.  I have, however, imposed a few house rules on myself.  I've continued from WitP the rule requiring 4EB on naval strike to be at a minimum of 10,000 feet (I know that's supposed to have been addressed, but I didn't want to take any chances, especially while your carriers were in the DEI).  Also, sometime after we started the game, I learned that some players were evacuating towns with garrison requirements so that guerillas would destroy industry.  With a few exceptions, I didn't do that - I kept Palembang garrisoned, for instance.  The exceptions:  I pulled the garrison out of Wenchow at the start of the game before I knew that guerillas would attack, and I eventually evacuated Rangoon, but waited unti my garrison was threatened with being cut off.  Japanese artillery wrecks things.  The four units you have at Changsha consistently inflict 500 to 700 casualties every single day.  The seventeen units used at Chengchow wrecked an entire army and made it impossible to hold a key city.  I don't like it and I think it's cheesy and way out of whack.  I leave it to you if you want to self-impose any restrictions."

Operation Bethel Church:  Off and on recon shows 4 units 8,000 strong and about 50 fighters and 50 bombers at Luganville.  Transports and other ships are heading to Noumea with the carriers out front to act as a shield.  When the transports reach Noumea in about three or four days, the carriers will head north to a point from which air strikes will target Luganville.  A bombardment TF will also go in.  As best I can tell, Miller doesn't have any supporting bases closer than Lunga.  So his position at Luganville is pretty tenuous.  I don't expect him to bring in the KB.  If he doesn't he'll probably pull out his aircraft pretty quickly and concede the base.  If he decides to make a full-fledged fight of it, he could commit his carriers and combat ships in Luganville's defense.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 284
RE: The Ravishing of Chengchow - 11/7/2009 11:23:52 AM   
tocaff


Posts: 4781
Joined: 10/12/2006
From: USA now in Brasil
Status: offline 		I'm enjoying the read and the insights you offer into the differences between WITP & AE.  Keep up the good work.

I've got mixed feelings about the Japanese artillery situation in China.  I think that huge artillery bombardments are akin to a WWI type of situation, but 17 units is a bit inflated.  Maybe 1/2 that # would be deadly, but in a slower mode?  I'll watch this situation and what Paul does to modify things and it's effect.


_____________________________

Todd

I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2080768

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 285
RE: The Ravishing of Chengchow - 11/7/2009 1:36:05 PM   
erstad

 

Posts: 1944
Joined: 8/3/2004
From: Midwest USA
Status: offline
quote:

Accordinly, I'm placing ALL my troops in reserve.


Why not rest mode until he arrives?

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Post #: 286
RE: The Ravishing of Chengchow - 11/7/2009 1:47:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I should've done that, but figured he'll be right on my heels.  The Reserve status assignment is something I haven't used before.  I so like the thought of having my troops set to Reserve when my opponent bombards the turns after he arrives (if that's in fact what he does) that I set them without considering having them rest first.

(in reply to erstad)
Post #: 287
RE: The Ravishing of Chengchow - 11/8/2009 12:57:39 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/15/42 and 6/16/42
 
Operation Bethel Church:  The curtain is about to open on the invasion of Luganville.  The Allied carrier TF, currenly SE of Noumea, will steam to a point 200 miles (five hexes) south of L'ville.  All aircraft are set to Naval Strike, but all divebombers and TBDs are set alternatively to Airfield Strike, hoping to close down or heavily damage the Japanese airfield.  Eighteen F4F-4s based at Efate will fly a Sweep.  A combat TF led by PoW will follow the carriers and, if all goes well, will head in to bombard during the next two-day turn.  Transports and support ships, currently behind the carriers, will move to Noumea and load the invasion troops.  A few others are heading to Efate, some empty and some carrying another base force and a SeaBee unit.  D-Day is probably about eight days off, so Miller will know what's going on.

Operation Resaca (British invasion of Sabang and nearby islands):  This operation just experienced a major hiccup.  Miller took Port Blair by paratroop assault - a 2:1 attack dropped forts to zero on day one.  Then the garrison surrendered the following day.  I had thought the little unit there was sufficient to hold against such an assault, but I had three transports on the way with about 50 AV in reinforcements.  Two more days and they would have been there - well, two of them, anyhow.  The third, an AKL, was sunk by I-174 midway between Ceylon and Port Blair.  I'm recalling the other two, but a combat TF that I had stationed midway in case Miller invaded by sea will continue to Port Blair to bombard.  I'm not sure yet what this means for Operation Resaca, but it's not good.  Hat's off to Miller for throwing a big monkey wrench in Allied plans here.

Sub Wars:  Drum sank an AK near Okinawa.

China:  The Chinese army east of Nanyang got 413:1 odds on the defeated, retreated Japanese unit and inflicted 3,162 casualties without taking any losses.  I think this IJ unit vaporized.  Per erstad's suggestion I've changed the Loyang defenders to rest until the Japanese actually move on this base.  China is in terrible shape now - too many units have been decimated, too few supplies to allow them to reinforce, too few supplies to allow aircraft operations, etc.

Artillery Death Stars:  Miller has proposed a house rule limiting artillery to one unit per division.  I replied suggesting that we make this a self-imposed rule that we self-regulate, that it not be hard-and-fast (IE, if one side or the other occasionally deviates in a small way that would be okay), and that it should always be okay to use two or three units in a hex no matter how many infantry are present.  I'm going to follow these guidelines myself.

Operation Port Royal (invasion of Paramushiro):  Ground and air units continue to gather at Seatte.  I should have the political points needed to change HQ assignment within a month.  I'll need the carriers, combat ships, and some of the transports currently involved in Operation Bethel Church.  If things go well at Luganville, I'd say these ships might be able to make Seattle in a month to six weeks. So my best case scenario might be to get Port Royal underway in early August.

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 288
RE: The Ravishing of Chengchow - 11/9/2009 3:14:25 PM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

China:  The Chinese army east of Nanyang got 413:1 odds on the defeated, retreated Japanese unit and inflicted 3,162 casualties without taking any losses.  I think this IJ unit vaporized.  Per erstad's suggestion I've changed the Loyang defenders to rest until the Japanese actually move on this base.  China is in terrible shape now - too many units have been decimated, too few supplies to allow them to reinforce, too few supplies to allow aircraft operations, etc.




Instead of trying to hoard all of these decimated units into one base for a futile defence ...split some of them up and send them scurrying into Miller's rear.

Guess what - when they are vaporized they return to Chungking in 30 days stronger than when they departed. You have to play the hand your dealt...in this case your given FREE replacements...take advantage of the rule.

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 289
RE: The Ravishing of Chengchow - 11/9/2009 4:41:56 PM   
Q-Ball


Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: treespider
Instead of trying to hoard all of these decimated units into one base for a futile defence ...split some of them up and send them scurrying into Miller's rear.

Guess what - when they are vaporized they return to Chungking in 30 days stronger than when they departed. You have to play the hand your dealt...in this case your given FREE replacements...take advantage of the rule.


For this reason, as Japan, I would seek to surround big stacks rather than destroy them, if you have the opportunity. Pay attention to the W key, but if you enter the hex from all directions, you can leave it to rot. Once you have Chinese troops surrounded, it probably doesn't take much to keep them bottled up. If you don't need the base in particular, you may as well make it a POW camp.


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(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 290
RE: The Ravishing of Chengchow - 11/9/2009 4:43:37 PM   
Smeulders

 

Posts: 1879
Joined: 8/9/2009
Status: offline 		I'd be shock attacking till my units dropped dead. I also wonder how severe attrition would be to units without supplies for extended amounts of time.

(in reply to Q-Ball)
Post #: 291
70:5 - The Reverse Turkey Shoot - 11/9/2009 5:55:46 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/17/42 and 6/18/42
 
Operation Bethel Church (air):  This operation is officially underway with some good things and some bad.  The Allied ships and carrier aircraft followed orders.  Bombers hit Luganville airfield on back-to-back days.  The resutls weren't great unless you happen to be Japanese.  Two massive raids resulted in 70 downed Allied aircraft and just 5 IJ fighters.  This seems very lopsided given that the American pilots are high quality, but fortunes of war.  Perhaps Miller saw this coming and set up a fighter trap.  I thought there were about 110 aircraft at L'ville (50 fighters and 60 others), but the CAP alone was 50 Zeros.  Since none of the 18 aircraft destroyed on the ground was a bomber, I think he pulled them out and replaced them with Zeros.  In any event, a tip of the cap to Miller for his air-to-air victory.

Operation Bethel Church (sea):  Japanese aircraft didn't sortie against the carrier TFs, which will now retire to Noumea so that service crews can get damaged planes airworthy and the squadrons can make good losses.  In the meantime, a strong bombardment TF (BBs PoW, Mississippi, and Revenge with 6 CAs and two CLs) will hit Luganville tomorrow.  The airfield suffered just 29% damage during the two raids, but if enough damage is inflicted by the ships Miller might withdraw his aircraft.  Miller may think that an invasion is imminent, so he could commit a combat TF himself.

Operation Bethel Church (land):   The transports for the Marine regiment should arrive at Noumea in a few days.  Two other Marine regiments are currently at Pago Pago prepping for L'ville.  Amidst all the activity, I snuck in some transports to Efate to land Seabees and another base force, but I-157 got an xAP.  Efate's airfield just went to level two and she should have sufficient BF to handle 40 aircraft by next turn.

The Unknown:  Remember those patrol aircraft that sighted two Japanese carriers NE of Koumac just a week or two ago?  The KB, or part of it, may be in the vicinity.  Miller might commit his carriers, but my assessment is that he won't want to since the Allies have two air bases (Efate and Noumea) that can contribute LBA fighters and bombers.  Neither are high quality at the moment, but he can't be sure of that.  My plans are based on this assessment.  If I guess wrong...but that's the thrill of facing a live opponent!

Port Blair:  An RN bombardment TF hit Port Blair.  An Indian brigade at Trincomalee is prepping for Port Blair and I may proceed with a quick, not-much-at-risk amphibious assault to reclaim the island.  I am worried about Miller committing his CVEs against my "tempting target combat TF," so I'm not quiet positive yet.



< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/9/2009 5:58:16 PM >

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 292
New Hebrides Turkey Shoot Map - 11/9/2009 8:48:52 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Here's what's going on with Operation Bethel Church as of June 18, 1942....




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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 293
RE: New Hebrides Turkey Shoot Map - 11/10/2009 12:56:10 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline 		Probably too late but do not forget to Recon the base before the Bombardment TF arrives...makes a world of difference.

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Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 294
RE: New Hebrides Turkey Shoot Map - 11/10/2009 12:58:15 AM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Treespider, thanks.  This is one of the few times I can humbly say, "I did it!"  I've had two small F-4 recon units posted at Noumea and Efate checking out Luganville for a week.  Their pilots are pretty poor, so I may not be getting a whole lot of benefit.

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 295
Nuts and Bolts - 11/10/2009 7:10:15 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/19/42 and 6/20/42
 
Operation Bethel Church:  The bombardment TF went in and roughed up the IJ facilities at Luganville, including destroying 18 aircraft on the ground.  I think (hope?) Miller has concluded that he cannot keep the airfield open.  The length and complexity of this operation is a good example of the calculations and risks, and the nuts and bolts, inherent an AE invasion:

1.  Miller's first "glance" that something big was underway started with the first carrier air strike on the 17th  Since then there has been another carrier air strike and a bombardment TF.  It's going to be at least five or six days before D-Day, meaning the "enemy" will have something like eight or nine days to evaluate the situation, come up with a plan, and organize and position his forces.  That worries me, but that's just the way it will be.

2.  Miller could elect to contest the invasion vigorously (with LBA, combat TFs, and carriers) or he could decide to concede L'ville on the basis that the Allies have too much in the area to risk his valuable fleet assets.  I'm guessing it'll be the latter, but it's just a guess.

3.  After the strike, the Allied bombardment TF retired to Noumea, a size five port.  Unfortunately, the big ships can't rearm and an AE is two days out.  I haven't studied the rule manual all that carefully, but I *think* I can reaarm my capital ships once the AE is in port.  So my bombardment TF will remain in Noumea two more days.

4.  Some of my carriers need to replace aircraft lost in the big L'ville raids.  So the carriers will retire to Noumea for two days.

5.  Troops are loading aboard amphibious craft at Noumea and Efate.  Assuming loading is accomplished expeditiously, the Noumea TFs will steam to a point 80 miles NW of Noumea.  The Efate TF is to rendezvous there.  Other amphibious ships on the way from Auckland will likewise rendezvous there.

6.  ASW, minesweepers, and oilers will also rendezvous (an IJ sub took out AO Kanawaha near Noumea).

7. An amphibous TF with reinforcements for Efate will round New Caledonia and make for that island.

8.  I've moved additional fighter squadrons to Efate from Suva/Nadi (using the "drop tanks" feature).

9.  Additional amphibious TFs carring troops/engineers/base force for Vana Lueva (just north of L'ville) will accompany the L'ville group part way.  I think once all heck breaks loose at L'ville I can slip these troops to Vana, which is an Allied dot hex, without opposition.

10.  Recon shows just 8,000 Japanese troops at Luganville.  The Allies will begin the invasion with one Marine regiment, a rather poor Aussie brigade, and a U.S. artillery unit (all three 100% prepped).  If reinforcements are needed, two more Marine regiments, tanks, and artillery are at Pago Pago (50%+ prepped for L'ville).  Why aren't I waiting for them?  I'm going with the originally schedule troops mix.  At the time the other units embarked from the West Coast, I didn't think they'd be anywhere close when the invasion got underway.  They are close, now, but I want to move as quickly as possible.

Subwars:  In addition to the AO nailed by I-28 near Noumea, RO-65 took care of an AK at Efate.  The bombardment TF that hit L'ville also took on and sank I-154 in that hex.

DEI:  24 B-17s from Darwin hit Koepang's airfield on successive days.  I don't think Miller has aircraft there, yet.  Beleagured Dutch troops continue to hold out at Malang and Ambon, but I expect them both to fall tomorrow.  The only remaining decent Allied bases left are at Lautem and Dili.  These will fall as soon as Miller cares to sneeze at them.

Port Blair:  The RN bombardment force struck and then retired toward Ceylon.  An amphibious force carrying a 108-AV Indian brigade shall depart Trincomalee tonight.  I'm still not positive I'll carry through with this operation (I'm worried about tangling with IJ CVEs), but I think I'm leaning towards doing so.  I'm willing to risk the transports and troops, but don't want to lose a battleship or cruisers.

China:  Miller has elected to self-impose a rule limiting use of Japanese artillery.  I will do the same later in the war.  Miller's units haven't moved from Chengchow, yet.  I'm not sure what he'll do.  He can move immediately on adjacent Loyang, or he could move south toward Nanyang, or he could react to my feint toward Sinyang, deciding he needs to come to its defense (my stack moving on Sinyang is considerably larger than his garrison, but I'm not going to risk my troops getting cut off - I need them to defend Sian).

NoPac:  Amchitka's airfield just went to level one.  This base, which is my western-most outpost in the Aluetians, currently has a garrison of 115 AV.  I will try to build up the farthest Aleutian Island (Attu?) in the next month or so.  Troops prepping for Paramushiro and Onnekotan continue to gather at Seattle.  SigInt revealed 5,517 men at Paramushiro (just guessing:  a small engineer unit and maybe a Naval Guard?); the airfield is level four (I think that's up one since I last checked?); Onnekotan still doesn't have an airfield; still just one unit at Shikuka.  I wish I could get this operation underway immediately, because I'm confident it would work.  Will Miller add to his defenses over the next six weeks, though?


(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 296
Nuts not Bolts - 11/10/2009 10:20:05 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		6/21/42 and 6/22/42

Nuts not Bolts: I was wrong about Miller not committing a strong force to defend Luganville. A carrier group showed up north of Luganville and plastered the small amphibious TF gathered at Efate, destroying most of an Aussie brigade in the process. I am surprised that Miller is risking his carriers after his recent losses and I don't know what he'll do now - press forward, beat a hasty retreat, or just hang up around Luganville. Here's what I'm going to do:

1. Allied combat ships replenished (thanks to the AE at Noumea) and the carriers replaced most, but not all, of the combat losses. These ships will proceed north two hexes to rendezvous with the invasion transports and support ships. If Miller leaps forward a big carrier battle is in the offing.

2. I *think* Luganville's airfield is still shut down - showing 64% damage. But that could be FOW.

3. The Aussie brigade at Efate was to have taken part in the invasion. I've ordered forward 5th Marines from Pago Pago (55% prepped for L'ville) to take its place. It will take perhaps four to six days for this TF to make it's way to the theater.

4. In the meantime I'll gauge my actions to Miller's. Is he looking for a carrier battle or not? I also want to send another bombardment TF to Luganville, but not until I have a better feel for the lay of the land.

DEI: 24 B-17s hit Koepang again. Still no CAP. Miller didn't attack at Ambon and Malang, so those bases remain in Allied hands temporarily.

Bay of Bengal: The invasion force carrying an Indian brigade and Kiwi engineers departed Trincomalee. The escort, a PG, drove off a Japanese sub that I don't believe sighted any transports. These amphibious ships are proceeding to Port Blair at low speed to allow a bombardment TF just departing Trincomalee to leap-frog and hit Port Blair first. I've just about decided to risk an encounter with carrier escorts.

Burma: Allied bombers from NE India hit Magwe's oil on successive days, reporting 30 hits. Tomorrow the return to hit an engineer unit one hex south of Schwebo.

China: Some of the Japanese troops that took Chengchow have moved to Loyang - 9 units thus far. I'm playing my hunch that Miller will bombard before he attacks in order to feel out the defenses. So my units are set to reserve status. A few other Japanese units have advanced out the road toward Nanyang/Sinyang. With Miller having less artillery to blugeon me with, there is at least some chance that the Allies can make a stand of a week or longer at Loyang and considerably longer at Nanyang.




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(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 297
On the Eve of D-Day - 11/11/2009 3:28:17 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The title to this post is meant to suggest to my opponent that the Luganville invasion is nigh (it's actually about a week away). In fact, though, the Allies are about to invade Port Blair in a quickly put-together, on-the-fly, not-much-risked, but I still hope it succeeds invasion.

This invasion, code-named Operation Shoestring, is actually the opening to Operation Resaca - the British campaign in the IO and western Sumatra that is to coincide with Operation Port Royal and hopefully deceive Miller as to where the real danger lies.






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< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 11/11/2009 3:32:36 PM >

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 298
RE: On the Eve of D-Day - 11/11/2009 4:41:58 PM   
Galahad78

 

Posts: 386
Joined: 9/28/2009
Status: offline 		What are your thougths about using the 5th Marines (with only 55 pp) instead of the annihilated Aussie Brigade (100 pp)? Are you finding big differences in combat effectiveness between units with such a difference in PrepPoints?

By the way, I love the name of Operation Resaca

(in reply to Canoerebel)
Post #: 299
RE: On the Eve of D-Day - 11/11/2009 5:02:38 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		Both the 5th Marines and 1st Marines are combat loading at Pago Pago on amphibious ships.  At present I'm planning to postpone the invasion until they can arrive because the Aussie brigade was nearly anihilated. 
5th Marines should be at 60% and 1st Marines in the low 50s.  Both of those are adequate.  Prep helps but many operations are performed with units at less than 100% for various reasons - sometimes you're after a lightly defended or ungarrisoned target, sometimes you have to throw something together quickly where speed takes priority over preparation.  At least that was the case in WitP.  I *assume* it holds true in AE.  With three Marine regiments (the third at 100%) facing just 8,000 defenders, some of which must be base force personnel and probably some engineers, I think I'll be in good shape.

(in reply to Galahad78)
Post #: 300
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