RE: Enterprise and Lex in Action

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RE: Enterprise and Lex in Action - 9/20/2009 1:38:23 AM

erstad

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quote:

5. Sent out all my subs not realizing (or forgetting) they are set to retire and that sub minelayers are set to "do not lay mines." This was frustrating, but something players will adjust to quickly.

Patrol zones are the answer for most sub TFs anyway. The only time I use "remain on station" is for obvious chokepoints.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 31

RE: Enterprise and Lex in Action - 9/20/2009 2:15:40 AM

Canoerebel

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I knew that, but waited a few days of game time to take the time to issue the appropriate patrol orders to subs. There is so much to do on the first few turns of the game that I just skipped both patrol zones for subs and search arcs for aircraft. Man, that first turn or two is something - just getting ships out of port and heading to various places and issuing orders to land units and bases. Yikes! Then, after those first few turns, so many reinforcements arrive for the Allies that it's a nightmare trying to get aircraft squadrons to a base to ship overseas, organizing land units, getting supply convoys underway to dozens of bases. This game is the micromanager's dream and a procrastinator's nightmare.

(in reply to erstad)

Post #: 32

Stonewall wouldn't have done it this way... - 9/21/2009 5:43:33 PM

Canoerebel

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12/27/41 to 12/30/41

American carriers: Enterprise and Lexington TFs rendezvoued with an AO well to the southwest of Timor and then steamed north to a point just west of the island. I confess that I'm not sure what to do now - I don't want to bump into the KB and I don't know where the KB is. My preference would be to move north and get in one quick strike against some Japanese shipping in the southern Philippines area, but that's awfully risky. So I'm tempted to withdaw the carrier to safety before something bad happens. The result: indecision. Ol' Stonewall wasnt' indecisive. I need to make up my mind instead of steaming in circles. Far, far to the east, Yorktown arrived at San Diego on the 29th. She joined Saratoga. I may move these two carriers forward to Pearl Harbor soon.

DEI: The Japs have landed at Kuching, failed in initial attempts to take the base, but succeeded in finally taking Singkawang after brining in reinforcements. This should make the seas between Singapore, Palembang, and Batavia unsafe. CL Ceres was moving from Singers to Batavia on December 27 when I-153 put a torpedo in her side. She is still afloat with 85 FLT damage holding steady so she *may* survive to make Batavia in two days. The Celebes Sea region remains quiet. Dutch bombers managed a hit against a DMS near Jolo (one of the few successful Dutch air missions in the game to date).

Philippines: The noose is tightening. On the north side of the island, the Allies have pulled back to Bataan, Clark, and Manila. The Japs are present in force at Clark and bombarding daily. I don't know whether to make a stand there or withdraw to Manila. To the south, a Jap recon regiment is advancing up the island, but it isn't strong enough to dislodge the infantry units posted in the two hexes south of Manila. I have evacuated some of the B-17 squadrons from the PI - one that went to China promptly sortied and scored one hit against an AKL near Pescadores. Dadjangas fell on the 29th.

SEAC: The Jap advance isolated and destroyed a few minor Allies units (my bad for not pulling all units back to Singapore in time, but the mayhem is pretty historical). Victoria Point fell on the 29th.

Subs: Jap subs around Hawaii and the West Coast continue to wreak havoc - I-121 and I-7 got AKs between the two areas; I-174 got an AKL near Pearl; I-8 got an AK just north of Pearl. All other merchant shipping to Hawaii has been suspended until the area clears or is cleared by the numerous ASW TFs and ASW air patrols. Transport convoys to isolated CenPac and SoPac islands continue using waypoints to avoid the wolfpack areas.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 33

RE: Stonewall wouldn't have done it this way... - 9/21/2009 7:16:47 PM

Q-Ball

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Manila is now "light urban", which does not confer the same benefits as "Urban" did in WITP. It's basically the equivalent of the terrain at Clark. If I were the Allies and I had to choose, I would probably pick Manila, if only because there are alot more VPs there, and the Japanese could use Manila, but don't particularly need Clark.

Only downside is that Manila can be exposed to naval bombardments (once Bataan falls), while Clark won't be (because presumably Bataan will be in your rear, and it's not a good idea for the Japanese to sail past that!).

I think bringing the CVs to DEI is clever, because I highly doubt the Japanese expect it, there are plenty of targets, and the Japanese would NOT commit KB under normal circumstances. BUT, you had that intel leak..........given that, I would probably forget it.

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Post #: 34

RE: Stonewall wouldn't have done it this way... - 9/21/2009 7:32:06 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

12/27/41 to 12/30/41

American carriers: Enterprise and Lexington TFs rendezvoued with an AO well to the southwest of Timor and then steamed north to a point just west of the island. I confess that I'm not sure what to do now - I don't want to bump into the KB and I don't know where the KB is. My preference would be to move north and get in one quick strike against some Japanese shipping in the southern Philippines area, but that's awfully risky. So I'm tempted to withdaw the carrier to safety before something bad happens. The result: indecision. Ol' Stonewall wasnt' indecisive. I need to make up my mind instead of steaming in circles. Far, far to the east, Yorktown arrived at San Diego on the 29th. She joined Saratoga. I may move these two carriers forward to Pearl Harbor soon.

In my game (versus the AI), I have a short-term rendevous for an air combat TF at the Cocos Islands in the IO. I've sent an AVD and a naval search unit (one of the Dutch LR flying boats) there with some xAKL-supplied supplies. The search arc (0 to 150) allows a pretty reasonable search of the IO west and SW of Java. AOs in a resupply TF can meet CVs in the hex or sortie from it to refuel the CV TF at sea.

Best part about the Cocos Is.: with a day's notice, it's close enough to intercept any Java-based TFs from the West. With DBs set at range 6 (with VF escort) or 7 (without), they can sit off of Tjitilap and pound on anything attempting an Eastern Java landing. Until Palembang falls, this is largely out of range for most IJ air strikes. If you wished, you could also provide LRCAP from Tjitilap for the TF.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 35

New Year's Day, 1942 - 9/22/2009 3:34:57 PM

Canoerebel

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12/31/41 and 01/01/42

American Carriers: Despite my protestations that I would do something decisive, I still have Lex and Ent steaming in circles with an AO south of Timor. (Chickenboy, I like your idea, though Cacos is a little too far west for my liking; I'm looking for opportunities in the Celebes and Flores seas areas).

KB: No sign of it since shortly after Pearl Harbor. The Japs lost 80 pilots during the two-day surprise attack, so perhaps Miller feels handcuffed in trying to make good the replacements. He has suggested that is the case in a recent email, but that could be disinformation.

NoPac: Nothing going on here except a few isolated AKs running supplies to Anchorage and Kodiak.

CenPac: I-21 missed AK Exmoor between Pearl and the West Coast. Isolated AKs are making runs to the island outposts (Canton, Christmas, Johnston, Palmyra) with larger efforts going to Pago Pago and Tahiti. CL Trenton has been at PP for a week and will soon be joined by a DD/DMS TF from Pearl. An engineer unit will arrive at Tahiti in a week or two, which I hope will allow the Allies to build up the port facilities needed to permit more expeditious unloading of fuel and supplies. The Allies still hold Wake Island and an AKL will arrive there tomorrow.

SoPac: The Allies have reinforced Noumea and Fiji slightly, but need Political Points to free up enough troops to seriously bolster the garrisons here and at Pago Pago. This area has been very quiet, but that will/should change at some point, though I hope not until Miller feels like things are under control in the DEI and Philippines.

Solomons: Quiet since the Japs took Kavieng and Shortlands early in the war; immediately thereafter, the Allies sent a small bombardment TF to hit Kavieng and I hope that convinced Miller to hold back until he has enough to handle what he might fear is in the area. Actually, there's no Allied presence there at the moment. The closest combat TF is in port at Townsville.

DEI: The Japs have aircraft at Singkawang, which pretty much closes off the western reaches. Badly damaged CL Ceres (86 FLT damage) made it to Batavia. If she gets a few days to pump out water, I'll try to sneak her to Tjilitjap or Soerabaja). The Celebes and Flores Seas remain devoid of Japs, so I suspect Miller is waiting until he can come in overwhelming numbers. I expect the KB to come along. BC Renown, CAs Boise and Houston, and CL Marblehead are at Darwin. A small Dutch DD force is moving to Ambon, and a very small CL/DD force is at Kendari.

PI: The Allies are basically down to Bataan, Clark, and Manila on Luzon, along with many of the more isolated bases on the islands to the south - includng Cebu and Cagayan. I don't know yet whether Miller intends to make an early concerted effort to seize Luzon, or if instead he's sent just enough to hold the Allies in place while he concentrates his efforts elsewhere.

Malaya: Here the Allies are just about down to Singapore. The AV of the defenses here will be only a bit more than 1,000, meaning I squandered some troops in a poorly orchestrated retreat down the peninsula. Several combat units were cut off, attacked, and then surrendered.

SEAC: It appears to me that Mandalay cannot be defended in this game - that the place to make a stand is a hex west (Schwarme?). I also don't see any Chinese units available to commit to SEAC, so I haven't done anything yet. The Allies do intend to strongly garrison Colombo and Calcutta in the short term. Prince of Wales recently pulled out of the DEI and arrived at Colombo.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/22/2009 6:51:32 PM >

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Post #: 36

The Japs Look to Wake Island - 9/22/2009 7:00:07 PM

Canoerebel

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01/02/42 and 01/03/42

CenPac: Ro-62 was sitting at Wake and took care of the AKL I had diverted there to bring much-needed supplies. I also got SigInt that a SNLF force is loaded on a Maru heading for the island, so I won't have Wake much longer. I-169 got AP Burnett NE of Hawaii. Man, that has been fertile grounds for Miller (though, if he's gonna score, I'd rather he do so there than patrol the waters further south where transports are carrying troops and aircraft to remote islands, NZ, and OZ).

DEI: Two small combat TFs consisting of a CL and five DDs will snoop around the northern Celebes Sea. Another TF including CL Boise is heading for Ambon. Enterprise and Lexington are still hanging around. A Jap deliberate attack at Kuching fails, but he will take the base as soon as he lands a few more troops.

Malaya: I've been trying to airlift an isolated Indian brigade out of central Malaya - even paying PP to change her HQ assignment to an unrestricted command, but for some reason the air transport unit refuses to particpate (Oh, I just remember it's Dutch, so Malaya is probably off limits; waste of PP).

Jap Progress: It's still early and there's so much going on that it's hard to tell exactly what's happening, but thus far it appears that Miller is being cautious in his advance - for instance, no Jap forces with the possible exception of subs have been seen in the Celebes and Flores Sea areas nor has Miller made any move on Kendari, Ambon, Timor, or Java. The cautious approach is similar to what I saw in my previous WitP PBEM game with Miller. He's a cautious offensive player (though that can certainly change) and he's particularly good at tactical defense.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/22/2009 7:01:37 PM >

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Post #: 37

Was is los? - 9/22/2009 8:31:32 PM

Canoerebel

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01/04/42 and 01/05/42

Jap Paratroops: It just occurred to me that I haven't seen the Jap paratroops yet. In WitP, the 'Chutes usually help the Japs seize some of the upper Malay-Peninsula bases or bases on Borneo. In my previous WitP game with Miller, he employed them there and later in the game as part of a last-ditch effort to make a surprise attack on Ceylon. So Miller likes to use the 'Chutes, but hasn't done so yet.

Allied Subs: With the Jap subs wreaking havoc, I wish I had some good news about Allied subs, but they have been very quiet in the game - just one successful attack thus far to the best of my recollection. I have a number of the Manila-based subs patroling the South China Sea and the Formosa chokepoints, but no hits thus far and lots of brushes with ASW. The Dutch subs are mostly in the Celelebes area and, to this point, the Jap navy hasn't made an appearance there.

DEI: I *think* a Jap TF of unknown composition may be heading for the Celebes area. An small Dutch CL/DD TF is based at one port with a stronger TF including CLs Boise and Marblehead at Ambon. Enterprise and Lexington are moving north now and will pass near Darwin.

SoPac: The NZ Pioneers are doing a fantastic job at Noumea. They just landed there and already fortifcations went to one. A Kiwi Brigade is unloading. Over at Pago Pago, 2nd Marine Defense Battalion has begun unloading and a 8th Marines are just a week away.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 38

RE: The Japs Look to Wake Island - 9/22/2009 8:47:48 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

Malaya: I've been trying to airlift an isolated Indian brigade out of central Malaya - even paying PP to change her HQ assignment to an unrestricted command, but for some reason the air transport unit refuses to particpate (Oh, I just remember it's Dutch, so Malaya is probably off limits; waste of PP).

I don't know if it's just me, but I had trouble evacuating Singapore with the restricted Dutch flying boats. I'd get the error message about 'restricted command' or some such. When I moved the Dutch transport aircraft to Palembang, I had no problems pulling numerous LCUs out of Singapore.

Does your Indian Brigade have access to an airfield or is it in a friendly port hexside?

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 39

Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/23/2009 12:40:34 PM

Canoerebel

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01/06/42 to 01/09/42

Wake Island: A Jap SNLF began landing at Wake on the 6th and managed a 4:1 shock attack that dropped forts to zero, cost the Jpas 657 to 34, and failed to overcome the defenders. The follow-up shock attack on the 7th came off at 1:2 and cost the Japs 591 to 13. Miller will have to bring more. He can - easily - so this is little more than a bump in the road. I tried to organize a FT convoy for Wake several days previously, but found that DDs aren't capable of carrying troops - at least the ones currently stationed at Pearl Harbor. So no reinforcements for the good guys.

DEI: The Japs are nibbling at the edges of the DEI and Solomons, landing at Sarong, Hollandia, and in the Admiralties. A Dutch CL/DD force sortied from Ambon, but guessed wrong at the target and missed; CLs Boise and Marblehead will lead a bombardment force from Ambon to Sarong tomorrow - this is mainly intended to draw Miller's attention. Enterprise and Lexington are SW of Darwin and still steaming in circles while an AO loads fuel at Soerabaja.

Malaya: The Allies have an AV of 1105 in Singapore with a few scattered, weak units isolated up the peninsula. The Japs aren't bombing yet. Johore Bahru fell on the 6th, so the Japs should gather there and sooner or later force the crossing of the straits. In my WitP game with Miller, Singapore held out until late January or February, I believe.

PI: But they are bombing Clark Field. The Japs have 700+ AV to just 230 for the Allies, so they should take Clark soon. A few Jap regiments are also advancing toward Manila from the south side. They have just begun landing at Cotabato on Mindanao. In my WitP game with Miller, the Allies held Manila until late June '42. I don't think that will happen this time unless he treats it as a prison camp and doesn't make any effort to take the city for awhile.

Japs Subs: RO-67 got an AKL at Canton Island; I-169 got an AK north of Pearl (I've noticed that alot of my AKs and AKLs go down after taking one torpedo - this is much different than WitP). Alot of ASW TFs are working out of Pearl now, and many major ports have ASW TFs working under computer control.

Logistics/Reinforcements: The Allies are beginning to make headway in organizing supply convoys from Africa and the Mideast to India and Australia, and from the West Coast to SoPac and Australia. But when the Jap armed merchant cruisers show up somewhere unexpected in the vast reaches of the Pacific or Indian oceans it may play havoc for awhile. Reinforcement convoys are also leaving regularly, mostly from Seattle and San Diego.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 40

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/23/2009 6:51:28 PM

tocaff

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So how does it feel to be back in the saddle again?

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I never thought that doing an AAR would be so time consuming and difficult.
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Post #: 41

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/23/2009 7:37:59 PM

Canoerebel

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It feels WONDERFUL. Every time I open the game I am struck by just how much I enjoy playing it. AE is an elegant and excellent platform that permits us to compete against human opponents, which is just a blast.

Oh, yes, I recognize the same enthrallment with the game that consumed so much of my time and energy in WitP, but I IT'S TOO LATE TO STOP!

:)

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Post #: 42

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/23/2009 7:57:20 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

01/06/42 to 01/09/42

Wake Island: A Jap SNLF began landing at Wake on the 6th and managed a 4:1 shock attack that dropped forts to zero, cost the Jpas 657 to 34, and failed to overcome the defenders. The follow-up shock attack on the 7th came off at 1:2 and cost the Japs 591 to 13. Miller will have to bring more. He can - easily - so this is little more than a bump in the road. I tried to organize a FT convoy for Wake several days previously, but found that DDs aren't capable of carrying troops - at least the ones currently stationed at Pearl Harbor. So no reinforcements for the good guys.

Note to JFBs:

1 SNLF on Wake = High chance of failure, potential loss of unit

2 SNLF on Wake = Easy capture, piece of cake

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Post #: 43

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/23/2009 8:00:22 PM

Canoerebel

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By waiting until early January '42 to invade Wake Island, Miller gave the defenders time to build three forts. Had he attaked earlier with the same force he likely would have succeeded (as it was, he got a 4:1 attack on the day of the invasion, but the three forts saved the defenders).

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Post #: 44

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/23/2009 11:18:46 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

By waiting until early January '42 to invade Wake Island, Miller gave the defenders time to build three forts. Had he attaked earlier with the same force he likely would have succeeded (as it was, he got a 4:1 attack on the day of the invasion, but the three forts saved the defenders).

I think the best idea is to grab the Tarawa invasion force (a Nav Gd unit), hold up the Wake Invasion to join them, and go in together. You can invade the first week still that way, but it's pretty much a pushover with the extra help. I then divert the Makin invasion to Tarawa. Makin can be taken later.

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Post #: 45

Ah, the heck with Jap imperialism.... - 9/24/2009 12:03:54 AM

Canoerebel

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1/10/42 to 1/13/42

The "first stage" of Jap territorial expansion has essentially ended as the Japs have invested Manila, Bataan, and Singapore. The second stage has arrived and this is when the Japs begin taking things the Allies may not want to surrender.

CenPac/SoPac: The Allies continue to hold Wake Island, but supplies are nearly gone. I-18 took out an AKL at Christmas Island. 2nd Marines has combat loaded on APs for the journey from San Diego to Palmyra. An ASW TF will arrive there tomorrow to deal with the sub that's been hanging out. 8th Marines have landed at Pago Pago. The engineer unit has landed at Tahiti. The Allies would like to send reinforcements to Fiji and Noumea, but that will take awhile. The Allies will fight hard for all of these bases, but I won't take chances over Baker or Canton Islands. If Miller continues his methodical and relatively slow advance, the Allies may have time to reinforce and entrench.

SWPac: The Japs are landing part of 144th Infantry at Rabaul. Thinking the jig was up, I began evacuating each unit by air to Port Moresby; then, to my surprise, the garrison held against a deliberqate attack. So Miller may have to bring more troops. He has a strong combat TF in the hex. I've sortied a strong CA/CL force from Townsville. I'm worried about this being a KB-loaded trap, but sometimes you take chances....

DEI: Lex and Enterprise still hanging out. No sign of Japs yet in the Celebes/Banda/Ceram Seas areas. Boise/Marblehead bombarded Sarong on the 10th, doing little damage. The Japs took the base along with Hollandia, Admiralties, and Sambas (near Kuching) that day.

PI: The Allies decided to pull back from Clark Field, so the final stands will be made at Bataan (AV roughly 700) and Manila (AV probably will be roughly 1200). A solo B-17 from Cagayan flew a mission over Paulau, to my surprise. I was hoping to get some cool intel, but the bomber went in against an AK, so I don't know if there is anything juicy there or not.

Malaya: Singapore AV is about 1125 and slowly rising.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/24/2009 12:05:23 AM >

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Post #: 46

RE: Ah, the heck with Jap imperialism.... - 9/24/2009 2:26:59 AM

ny59giants

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quote:

DEI: Lex and Enterprise still hanging out. No sign of Japs yet in the Celebes/Banda/Ceram Seas areas. Boise/Marblehead bombarded Sarong on the 10th, doing little damage. The Japs took the base along with Hollandia, Admiralties, and Sambas (near Kuching) that day.

What are you doing with Sara??

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Post #: 47

RE: Ah, the heck with Jap imperialism.... - 9/24/2009 3:24:23 AM

Canoerebel

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Saratoga and Yorktown are at San Diego. I've kept them there since the waters around Pearl are crawling with subs. I may send them to Pearl, or they may head toward Tahiti.

I'm still torn about whether to recall Enterprise and Lexington. They are west of Broome, now, but I can't quite make myself send them to Perth. I keep thinking I'll get a shot at something in the Celebes area. If they do head to Perth, then they'll likely make for Auckland and an eventual rendezvous with their San Diego-based sisters.

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Post #: 48

RE: Ah, the heck with Jap imperialism.... - 9/24/2009 8:58:10 AM

JeffroK

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From somewhere in a flooded Georgia!

CenPac/SoPac: The Allies continue to hold Wake Island, but supplies are nearly gone. I-18 took out an AKL at Christmas Island. 2nd Marines has combat loaded on APs for the journey from San Diego to Palmyra. An ASW TF will arrive there tomorrow to deal with the sub that's been hanging out. 8th Marines have landed at Pago Pago. The engineer unit has landed at Tahiti. The Allies would like to send reinforcements to Fiji and Noumea, but that will take awhile. The Allies will fight hard for all of these bases, but I won't take chances over Baker or Canton Islands. If Miller continues his methodical and relatively slow advance, the Allies may have time to reinforce and entrench.

With 2nd Marines on Palmyra you get maybe a BF as well. Christmas Is is unlimited so I've built it up to cover Palmyra & Fanning and the LOC between Pago Pago & the US of A. I cant see a succesful defence of Baker & Canton until you can build up more important bases, or Miller makes a biiiig mistake.

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Post #: 49

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/24/2009 1:35:49 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

01/06/42 to 01/09/42

Wake Island: A Jap SNLF began landing at Wake on the 6th and managed a 4:1 shock attack that dropped forts to zero, cost the Jpas 657 to 34, and failed to overcome the defenders. The follow-up shock attack on the 7th came off at 1:2 and cost the Japs 591 to 13. Miller will have to bring more. He can - easily - so this is little more than a bump in the road. I tried to organize a FT convoy for Wake several days previously, but found that DDs aren't capable of carrying troops - at least the ones currently stationed at Pearl Harbor. So no reinforcements for the good guys.

Note to JFBs:

1 SNLF on Wake = High chance of failure, potential loss of unit

2 SNLF on Wake = Easy capture, piece of cake

Q-ball: I agree with your assessment, but doesn't this formulaic presupposition of allied dispositions antebellum get a little unrealistic? If the IJ navy had a good idea that their first attack would be repulsed, do you really think they would have gone ahead with it as scheduled?

This degree of foreknowledge wielded as an IJ player is akin to hunting the Enterprise and Lexington intentionally on day one. By preplacing units of KB within striking distance of where you *know* these CVs will be (because one has played the scenario countless times), one is using their understanding of predispositions and expected resistance to 'game' the system.

Canorebel: my apologies for interrupting your very enjoyable AAR.

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Post #: 50

RE: Ah, the heck with Jap imperialism.... - 9/24/2009 1:44:50 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Saratoga and Yorktown are at San Diego. I've kept them there since the waters around Pearl are crawling with subs. I may send them to Pearl, or they may head toward Tahiti.

I'm still torn about whether to recall Enterprise and Lexington. They are west of Broome, now, but I can't quite make myself send them to Perth. I keep thinking I'll get a shot at something in the Celebes area. If they do head to Perth, then they'll likely make for Auckland and an eventual rendezvous with their San Diego-based sisters.

I understand your indecision in how to use E and L.

If I may offer an example from my game versus the IJ AI? KB (minus Zui-damaged and Soryu-sunk) has been busy down in the Solomons supporting the buildup of P/NG and trying to support a move on PM. That means that it is *not* in and around Java, where my Saratoga has been hanging out with CV Indomitable and CVL Hermes plus hangers on.

In a recent bloodfest, the AI tried a rather brash coup de main against Merak on Java. Saratoga and friends were in a position (along with the undeterred LBA on Java) to smash the invasion fleet. I had prepositioned them largely outside of IJN LBA reach until that turn when they were needed. Dash in-dash out-mayhem ensues.

IMO, it's something worthy of consideration-how to continue to use these carriers around the Western DEI (until Java falls) or Ceylon.

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Post #: 51

RE: Ah, the heck with Jap imperialism.... - 9/24/2009 1:58:49 PM

ny59giants

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quote:

Saratoga and Yorktown are at San Diego. I've kept them there since the waters around Pearl are crawling with subs. I may send them to Pearl, or they may head toward Tahiti.

I would crank up your training for ASW. Get a bunch of PBYs and 2e/4e bombers trained up in this area.

Regardless of what you do with your 4 American CVs, I would get them to meet up somewhere. Early in the war I like them all together.

(in reply to Chickenboy)

Post #: 52

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/24/2009 2:37:41 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Q-ball: I agree with your assessment, but doesn't this formulaic presupposition of allied dispositions antebellum get a little unrealistic? If the IJ navy had a good idea that their first attack would be repulsed, do you really think they would have gone ahead with it as scheduled?

This degree of foreknowledge wielded as an IJ player is akin to hunting the Enterprise and Lexington intentionally on day one. By preplacing units of KB within striking distance of where you *know* these CVs will be (because one has played the scenario countless times), one is using their understanding of predispositions and expected resistance to 'game' the system.

Canorebel: my apologies for interrupting your very enjoyable AAR.

Hunting Ent and Lex on turn one is gamey, I agree. Beyond that, foreknowledge cuts both ways, so I don't see this as a Japanese-only advantage. I give two examples:

1. USN wanted to engage KB immediately after Pearl Harbor with CVs. Good idea? Of course not, but you "know" that

2. 18th UK Division: I bet you're not sending it to Singapore, are you?

.....and there are more. Foreknowledge cuts BOTH ways, and is the one thing you can't alter AI or have house rules about

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Post #: 53

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/24/2009 2:47:55 PM

Canoerebel

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Q-Ball is right - foreknowledge goes both ways. There's really no way of eliminating the historical foreknowledge. However, the game balances it a bit - I think - by limiting the Allies in the area of MAGIC. For instance, in the real war the Allies would occasionally - or was it often? - get intel on the location and intentions of Jap carriers; the month leading up to Midway being a prime example. But in AE you don't get that intel, or at least it is very, very rare. There were times that the Allies had no idea where the Jap carriers were (before Pearl Harbor when Jap deception led US intelligence to conclude they were somewhere south of Japan).

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 54

RE: Jap Invasion of Wake Fails - 9/24/2009 3:25:30 PM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Q-ball: I agree with your assessment, but doesn't this formulaic presupposition of allied dispositions antebellum get a little unrealistic? If the IJ navy had a good idea that their first attack would be repulsed, do you really think they would have gone ahead with it as scheduled?

This degree of foreknowledge wielded as an IJ player is akin to hunting the Enterprise and Lexington intentionally on day one. By preplacing units of KB within striking distance of where you *know* these CVs will be (because one has played the scenario countless times), one is using their understanding of predispositions and expected resistance to 'game' the system.

Canorebel: my apologies for interrupting your very enjoyable AAR.

Hunting Ent and Lex on turn one is gamey, I agree. Beyond that, foreknowledge cuts both ways, so I don't see this as a Japanese-only advantage. I give two examples:

1. USN wanted to engage KB immediately after Pearl Harbor with CVs. Good idea? Of course not, but you "know" that

2. 18th UK Division: I bet you're not sending it to Singapore, are you?

.....and there are more. Foreknowledge cuts BOTH ways, and is the one thing you can't alter AI or have house rules about

Canorebel: Again, my apologies for interrupting your AAR. I very much enjoy your writing style-summaries, with enough detail to provide for exciting tidbits of specific actions. It may seem a quaint notion, but I find your play style to be most honorable.

Q-ball: You make your points and I would offer another: The withdrawal of Saratoga's ACTF within shouting distance of Wake Is. IRL. The USN was so concerned about risking Sara (and E & L in the Gilberts) in an unknown environment that they withdrew before they could offer support to the defense of the island. The allied player doesn't have to abandon Wake like Kimmel and Pye did IRL.

For myself, I'll send Force Z on their death ride as a tip of the digital hat towards realism. I'm not a big fan of the Force Z Sir Robin on turn 1. They didn't know the fate that awaited them, nor should I pretend I know otherwise. 18th Division elements (53,54,55 Brigades) typically are not in a position to make Singapore due to the ubiquitous Nell and Betty issue closing down the Malaccan straits before they arrive in theatre, so I send them to Java where they stay for the duration-good, bad or indifferent.

I assume that you will divert or substitute a portion of the IJ LCUs initially destined for Guam because that's 'overkill'? After all, aren't these AVs better suited to match resistance in other places (e.g., Rabaul)?Weren't the Japanese somewhat surprised *after the fact* about the light resistance encountered on Guam? Kind of like they were surprised *after the fact* about the fanatical resistance on Wake.

Knowing predispositions through speculation, intelligence collection, trial and error (e.g., Wake for the first IJN attempt) and best guess is one thing, of course. Knowing enemy predispositions because one has loaded the game from the opponent's side, taken careful notes of precise AV in certain areas, calculated precisely the necessary LCU AV to counter this defense and accordingly changed early war (or turn 1) default invasion plans is quite another. While no house rule would necessarily prevent this behavior, I believe that this falls in the 'know thy opponent' and 'buyer beware' domain.

At the risk of hijacking this excellent AAR further, I ask that you PM me or start a general topics thread on the matter to debate further, should you so desire.

(in reply to Q-Ball)

Post #: 55

RE: The Japs Look to Wake Island - 9/24/2009 3:56:59 PM

loricas

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

quote:

Malaya: I've been trying to airlift an isolated Indian brigade out of central Malaya - even paying PP to change her HQ assignment to an unrestricted command, but for some reason the air transport unit refuses to particpate (Oh, I just remember it's Dutch, so Malaya is probably off limits; waste of PP).

I don't know if it's just me, but I had trouble evacuating Singapore with the restricted Dutch flying boats. I'd get the error message about 'restricted command' or some such. When I moved the Dutch transport aircraft to Palembang, I had no problems pulling numerous LCUs out of Singapore.

Does your Indian Brigade have access to an airfield or is it in a friendly port hexside?

Pick the air unit. set in supply transport. destination base in malaya from witch you want to keep out unit (realesed with PP). now change to pick up.

i don't think is a cheat: only turn around interface issue as the program recognise the base off limit not the ok unit. in fact you can pick up the same unit in malaya with dutch out of base.

maybe that with transport all work ok as the transport is yellow restricted and float are white so the issue is only with white

assuming that your unit is in touched by sea hex or float planes have no place to land

< Message edited by loricas -- 9/24/2009 4:06:01 PM >

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Post #: 56

KB Comes a Sniffin'... - 9/24/2009 5:16:42 PM

Canoerebel

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I'll follow up with a more detailed post about the 1/14/42 and 1/15/42 turn later, but wanted to mention that the KB showed up near Johnston Island, sinking a solo AK. Wherever the KB goes it creates problems for the Allies, but it's presence here also allows the Allies more freedom to move elsewhere - in this case the Solomons and DEI. I *think* Enterprise and Lexington can now operate with more security in the Celebes, Flores, Ceram areas, and I'll probably employ the combat TF in the Solomons for a little while.

What seems most odd to me is that the Japs really haven't been driving into the DEI. Here it is mid-January '42, so it's time for the Japs to be making progress to seize key resource/oil bases, but Miller has just been nibbling away. And with the KB so far away, won't Enterprise and Lexington pose a major problem for him if he moves without forward air bases?

Naturally, I don't want to risk my carriers, but if I have a shot to really stymie Japanese efforts to seize key bases, it may be worth the risk.

(in reply to loricas)

Post #: 57

Strategic Map - January 15, 1942 - 9/24/2009 8:42:33 PM

Canoerebel

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The strategic situation as of 1/15/42. The KB just showed up near Johnston Island (CenPac) and the Japs are noticeably absent from the DEI - especially Java, Sarawak, Celebes, Ambon, Timor. What's up? More detailed post to follow later today.

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Post #: 58

The KB at Johnston Island - 9/24/2009 10:15:57 PM

Canoerebel

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1/14/42 and 1/15/42

Situation: On January 14, several Jap CVs including Shokaku and Hiryu are sighted SW of Johnston Island. They launch a Val strike force that sinks an AK unloading at the island. The KB isn't sighted on the 15th.

Analysis: Based upon location and opposing player's known trends it is believed that this force is the KB. We consider highly unlikely the possibility that the Japs would send less than substantially the entire KB into hostile waters.

Consquences: The presence of the KB in CenPac poses a threat to Allied shipping in the region, but by the same token suggests that other and distant areas - most notably the Solomons, New Guinea, and the DEI - are likely free of any threat from major Jap carrier TFs for the foreseeable future.

Orders: [1] Merchant shipping anywhere near the area threatened by the KB's presence in CenPac shall disperse and move out of harm's way; [2] The DD/DMS force just arrived at Palmyra shall steam at full speed SE (this force met two Jap AMCs at Palmyra, but buth declined action and the AMCs departed]; [3] Rabaul fell and the Japs began landing at Lae and Luganville on the 15th; the strong Allied CA/CL force near Woodlark Island that was originally making for Rabaul shall split as follows: CAs Louisville, Pensacola, three CLs and a DD shall attempt to interdict Jap shipping at Lae; CAs Australia and Canberra, CL, and DD shall steam to Tulagi, refuel, and await opportunity to strike Jap ships in Luganville area; reinforcements shall steam to Townsville from Darwin - CL and four DD; [4] With respect to the DEI, it appears that with CVs Enterprise and Lexington in the area and the KB distant, the Allies have an opportunity to contest any Japanese encroachment into this region; accordingly, Enterprise and Lexington shall steam northwest to Soerabaja to refuel and await further orders; CVL Hermes, BB Prince of Wales, CA Exeter, and four CL shall proceed from Colombo to a point south of Java; BC Repulse, CA Houston, a CL, and two DDs shall move from Darwin to Koepang; CLs Boise and Marblehead with DDs shall take station at Kendari; and the CL Java and five DDs shall remain at Ambon. These dispositions may allow the Allies to react to Japanese movements in this area quickly and decisively.

Additional Matters of Interest: [1] 12 B-17s moved from Darwin to Soerabaja and ordered to strike Brunei oil facilities; [2] Sub Sturgeon torpedoes and sinks two PBs near Formosa (finally, Allied subs go into action); [3] Japs take a largely vacant Clark Field; the Allies have 625 AV at Bataan and 1025 AV at Manila.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 9/24/2009 10:19:52 PM >

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Post #: 59

RE: The KB at Johnston Island - 9/24/2009 10:27:50 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

[3] Japs take a largely vacant Clark Field; the Allies have 625 AV at Bataan and 1025 AV at Manila.

Isn't it a bad idea to split the Phillipine defenders? Did you do that on purpose? If I'm Miller, I screen one area, take everyone and wipe out the other.

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Post #: 60

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