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RE: French Aircraft - 9/30/2009 8:20:38 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		You still put more work in than I do

I've got pictures I've shrunk down to kinda fit the plane sides, mostly yahoo stuff but found a really nice rendition of the Berguit (sp) 691 that I'm adding just brcause of it's appearance. Ship sides are in same boat as yours.

Am really looking forward to your senario though!

I take it that wingspalette.ru is a program, have not heard of it (obviously)



< Message edited by Norm3 -- 9/30/2009 8:27:03 PM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 61
RE: French Aircraft - 9/30/2009 8:27:57 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Nice to see some interest in french army in Indochina !

In fact it was Farman 221 instead of F.222 (non retractable gear version). Here is my proposal for may be another future mod, if i can find some spare times...






Attachment (1)

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 62
RE: French Aircraft - 9/30/2009 8:42:37 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Norm3

You still put more work in than I do

I've got pictures I've shrunk down to kinda fit the plane sides, mostly yahoo stuff but found a really nice rendition of the Berguit (sp) 691 that I'm adding just brcause of it's appearance. Ship sides are in same boat as yours.

Am really looking forward to your senario though!

I take it that wingspalette.ru is a program, have not heard of it (obviously)




It's a website.

< Message edited by Terminus -- 9/30/2009 9:41:17 PM >

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Post #: 63
RE: French Aircraft - 9/30/2009 8:43:18 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyland

Nice to see some interest in french army in Indochina !

In fact it was Farman 221 instead of F.222 (non retractable gear version).



Fixed.


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Post #: 64
RE: French Aircraft - 9/30/2009 9:19:01 PM   
NormS3


Posts: 521
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: Wild and Wonderful WV, just don't drink the water
Status: offline 		Thanks again T!

Great site, I'll play around on it for to long, no doubt.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 65
And some army troops... - 9/30/2009 9:24:30 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		So they don't feel left out... Here's one of the seven brigades that the Army of Indochina contains:




Attachment (1)

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Post #: 66
RE: Looking for some data on the French Army - 9/30/2009 10:23:12 PM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		But, at that speed she might have the range to get from Miami to Key West...if she could refuel there..

I thought those cruisers were capable of slightly faster speeds. But then, I also think I remember that from a good number of years ago, and heaven alone knows what I was reading then.. It was much the same with the Italianate cruisers I heard, up to the Zaras. The French and Italians designed ships to match each other in the Med, and seemingly failed to remember that there is an Atlantic Ocean (let alone the Pacific) to deal with..at some point.

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Post #: 67
RE: Looking for some data on the French Army - 9/30/2009 10:34:26 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

But, at that speed she might have the range to get from Miami to Key West...if she could refuel there..

I thought those cruisers were capable of slightly faster speeds. But then, I also think I remember that from a good number of years ago, and heaven alone knows what I was reading then.. It was much the same with the Italianate cruisers I heard, up to the Zaras. The French and Italians designed ships to match each other in the Med, and seemingly failed to remember that there is an Atlantic Ocean (let alone the Pacific) to deal with..at some point.


Yeah... No French cruiser, not even their best (the Algerie) could do more than 33 knots.

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Post #: 68
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 6:15:07 AM   
Pascal_slith


Posts: 1651
Joined: 8/20/2003
From: back in Commiefornia
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Here's a badly-kept secret: so am I. The ship-sides are cut-and-paste jobs of official AE art, and the plane-sides are images downloaded from the net, scraped clear of their background and pasted in. I use wingspalette.ru for the aircraft.


Hi Terminus, I went hunting on the 'net for wingspalette.ru and get 'broken link' in the two versions I trield (http://www.wingspalette.ru and http://wingspalette.ru

Can you give the full URL?

Thanks.

PS, if you need help with any French source, just ask. I'm a native English AND French speaker/reader/writer. I also have some French books on French WWII aircraft and ships that I can scan if you need help on data.

< Message edited by Pascal -- 10/1/2009 6:16:09 AM >

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Post #: 69
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 8:08:46 AM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		http://wp.scn.ru/

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Post #: 70
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 12:31:27 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Does anybody know if the AdA had a higher echelon than Groupe? There was Escadrille and Groupe, but was there anything above that?

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Post #: 71
RE: Looking for some data on the French Army - 10/1/2009 2:39:42 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Well, I CAN read French, albeit very slowly.


Well you're doing better than me then, I do good to comprehend English sometimes....

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Post #: 72
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 4:08:55 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Does anybody know if the AdA had a higher echelon than Groupe? There was Escadrille and Groupe, but was there anything above that?


There was Groupement (de Chasse / de Bombardement), then Division Aerienne then Zone d'Operation Aerienne.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 73
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 4:12:11 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		What would be the correct designation for transport and reconnaissance units, and did these exist above Escadrille level?

My thinking for the mod is that the French are in the process of expanding and reorganizing the Indochina air force, but they won't have completed the process by the time the Japs attack. This gives me the excuse to include some of the more advanced types to replace the antiques that were there historically.

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Post #: 74
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 4:27:09 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Yes, for Transport it could be Groupement Aerien de Transport with SAT #x as sub unit. For Reco, they were attached to the Armee (land). There was several Groupe (named GR Groupe de Reconnaissance or GAO Groupe Aerien d'Observation) for each Armee HQ.

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Post #: 75
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 4:34:46 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah the Potez 25 that Terminus showed in first page is a typical GAO plane. Note that GAO are army cooperation units.

< Message edited by Dili -- 10/1/2009 4:35:49 PM >

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Post #: 76
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 4:44:24 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		http://france1940.free.fr/vichy/ada_sep.html#Indo

Orbat for Vichy forces in indochina at the above link, might be helpful.

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Post #: 77
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 4:47:58 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

This gives me the excuse to include some of the more advanced types to replace the antiques that were there historically.


If you are looking for an advanced upgrade of Potez 25, have a look on Bloch 174, Saint-Exupery's airplane.

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 78
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:04:56 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		The problem with upgrades is that the Japan was allied to Germany after September 40 , and Japan indeed requested Germany to not let aircraft go to French Indochina.

(in reply to Skyland)
Post #: 79
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:25:31 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		One idea could be to upgrade to US aircrafts. France had placed several orders for Catalina, B24, Wildcat, P40 and so on, prior to June 1940. They were delivered to the UK (but already paid by the french !). But it is anyway interesting to have french designed aircraft in the game. By june 1940, several very competitive ones have just begun to enter in service.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 80
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:31:07 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Yeah that is a good idea since per script Indochina is Free French. Problem is if would US recognize it as heir of French Republic. Are you sure about B-24 order? i remember DB-7 tough.

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Post #: 81
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:35:54 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

The problem with upgrades is that the Japan was allied to Germany after September 40 , and Japan indeed requested Germany to not let aircraft go to French Indochina.


Completely irrelevant, since there's no Vichy.

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Post #: 82
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:36:26 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Skyland


quote:

ORIGINAL: Terminus

This gives me the excuse to include some of the more advanced types to replace the antiques that were there historically.


If you are looking for an advanced upgrade of Potez 25, have a look on Bloch 174, Saint-Exupery's airplane.


Already done it.

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Post #: 83
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:36:47 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

http://france1940.free.fr/vichy/ada_sep.html#Indo

Orbat for Vichy forces in indochina at the above link, might be helpful.


Used it a long time ago.

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Post #: 84
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:38:36 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		Yes 60 B24. Even 240 (!) "Boeing" surely be B-17, but not paid.

Source is the book "Les aides américaines économiques et militaires à la France, 1938-1960"

< Message edited by Skyland -- 10/1/2009 5:39:35 PM >

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 85
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:39:59 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline
quote:

Completely irrelevant, since there's no Vichy.


So Germany didn't conquered France in your script? There are Aircraft Industry only in France as far as i know, and military planes only get out if Germans allow.

quote:

Yes 60 B24. Even 240 (!) "Boeing" surely be B-17, but not paid.


Thanks

< Message edited by Dili -- 10/1/2009 5:41:23 PM >

(in reply to Terminus)
Post #: 86
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:43:24 PM   
Skyland


Posts: 280
Joined: 2/8/2007
From: France
Status: offline 		There was some assembly lines in North Africa, and all available french aircrafts received the order to fly to Africa few days before the Armistice.

(in reply to Dili)
Post #: 87
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:44:05 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dili

So Germany didn't conquered France in your script? There are Aircraft Industry only in France as far as i know, and military planes only get out if Germans allow.


No, Metropolitan France HAS fallen, but the French military has relocated to North Africa. However, given the fact that there was peace in the Far East, new (US and British) aircraft have gone to units in the Mediterranean. The war there has been quite costly, so it's only now that some more modern planes have reached Indochina.

I don't intend to have the starting French types upgrading to more modern French types. The path will go from French to American aircraft.

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Post #: 88
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:46:16 PM   
Dili

 

Posts: 4708
Joined: 9/10/2004
Status: offline 		Okay i understand, North Africa in Free France hands. Planes can go to Asia. The problem is they need all planes they got in North Africa.

Edit: above text(corrected) was written before i have read Terminus post.

Explained.




< Message edited by Dili -- 10/1/2009 5:49:25 PM >

(in reply to Skyland)
Post #: 89
RE: French Aircraft - 10/1/2009 5:48:43 PM   
Terminus


Posts: 41459
Joined: 4/23/2005
From: Denmark
Status: offline 		Correct. That's why the most modern American types in Indochina at the start of my mod will be the Hawk and the Maryland.

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Post #: 90
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